1970 cutlass question

Old June 20th, 2019, 05:00 PM
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1970 cutlass question

Found a Cutlass Supreme convertible for sale and wondering if you guys can help clarify something. It has a 455 in it and I was told it came from the factory with the ram air/cowl hood. Iím going to try and go take a look at it. If the numbers on the motor and trans match the end of the vin and it came with a 455 what option gets that hood? Thanks for any input!

Eric
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Old June 20th, 2019, 05:09 PM
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The hood is W-25 option. I am doubtful that it is all factory equipment. Those hoods are on more cars today than were ordered with them in the 70s.

Last edited by Fun71; June 20th, 2019 at 05:12 PM.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 05:21 PM
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Besides finding the broadcast card is there any way to actually check this? Cars been in one family itís whole life, uncle to brother, brother passed and kids are selling.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 05:30 PM
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take pictures and load them on here, everyone will let you know, Tim
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Old June 20th, 2019, 05:39 PM
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Ya the window sticker with the VIN on it. There is a difference in OEM vs Repro hoods. There are other details to look for in a factory hood
All of the parts could have been salvaged from a factory car and bolted on this one. No way to tell if its OEM, Look close for a paint color change. If the engine & trans numbers match Id be happy with that. The W25 parts are a bonus.
Post the VIN #s and cowl tag and we'll decipher it. Do you know where to find the Block and trans case numbers?
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Old June 20th, 2019, 05:44 PM
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Here is what pictures are available now. Iíll take a bunch when I see it in person.






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Old June 20th, 2019, 05:46 PM
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Itís got 442 badges, obviously not a 442.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Ya the window sticker with the VIN on it. There is a difference in OEM vs Repro hoods. There are other details to look for in a factory hood
All of the parts could have been salvaged from a factory car and bolted on this one. No way to tell if its OEM, Look close for a paint color change. If the engine & trans numbers match Id be happy with that. The W25 parts are a bonus.
Post the VIN #s and cowl tag and we'll decipher it. Do you know where to find the Block and trans case numbers?
Iíve found them on 68&69ís, assuming itís the same for this? The VIN is 342670M311214.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 06:23 PM
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Sounds like this car was in one family. Guy bought from his uncles estate, then he passed away and his children are selling it. Son said only the radiator & air cleaner has been replaced, but everything else is original. Original color is supposed to be white, dads uncle painted it black, dad repainted white as he remember from riding it as a child. It was painted 2 years ago and supposedly has 40k original miles and isnít a rollover. Thinking Iíll be able to tell by looking underneath if this is true.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 06:35 PM
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342670M311214 VIN

3 = Oldsmobile Division
4 = Series (Std. F-85)
2 = Model Designation. The number "2" represents the Model Designation for the SERIES "Cutlass Supreme" i.e. Cutlass Supreme = 34200 (V-8). The Model Designation for the SERIES "442" would have the Model Designation number of "4" i.e. 442 = 34400 (V-8)
67 = Body Type. The number "67" represents the Body Type for a convertible.
0 = Model Year. 1970
M = Plant (Lansing)
311214 = Plant Sequential Number

Therefore, a 442 would have a VIN designation of 344. You have a VIN designation of 342. Your vehicle is a Cutlass Supreme convertible, badged as a 442.

Last edited by Vintage Chief; June 20th, 2019 at 06:43 PM.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 10:18 PM
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No fan shroud, no OAI air cleaner, no 4-4-2 on glove box door, not sure about the seats. Engine color is to light, looks like 66-67 Toronado color, it should be darker. I was thinking that may be a dash pad from and A/C car. The wing was added, never came on a convertible from the factory. Operate the top a couple times before you buy it. Look for a "type O" rear end. Check VIN derivative number on transmission.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 05:18 AM
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That car has so many non-factory "additions" that it has clearly been completely disassembled and rebuilt. Obviously it's not a real 442, as the Cutlass Supreme VIN indicates. Crappy flex fan, no shroud, aftermarket intake, carb, air cleaner, valve covers. Pontiac blue engine. Three groove pulleys from an A/C car originally (which is where the non-original motor likely came from). Creative wiring under the hood. Wing on a convertible. No pinstripes on the sides. The list goes on.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tapper442 View Post
Sounds like this car was in one family. Guy bought from his uncles estate, then he passed away and his children are selling it. Son said only the radiator & air cleaner has been replaced, but everything else is original. Original color is supposed to be white, dads uncle painted it black, dad repainted white as he remember from riding it as a child. It was painted 2 years ago and supposedly has 40k original miles and isnít a rollover. Thinking Iíll be able to tell by looking underneath if this is true.
It sorta depends on what you'd like to do w/ the vehicle - "as-is" daily driver, restoration to original condition as a CS convertible, etc., etc. The vehicle looks in pretty decent condition - the top looks brand new, interior looks pretty good. Depending on price & what you'd like to do w/ it - of course your call. IMO, you have some serious wiggle room in further discussions w/ the owner(s) which should help your case in arriving at a sale price. The son wants as much as they can obtain for the car, but his statements are not correct "...only the radiator & air cleaner has been replaced..."

The intake manifold is an aftermarket Edelbrock, it has been replaced. The valve covers are Edelbrock, they have been replaced, as well. I don't believe the steering wheel is the stock steering wheel born on the car (although it may have been available as an option but I don't believe that steering wheel was an option). It appears the water pump, fan clutch and fan have been replaced. While I can see what appears to be two windshield washer tube lines, I don't see a windshield washer fluid container. Others can probably point out other items which are not original and have been replaced (some already discussed, OAI hood, 4-4-2 badging, trunk wing).

Again, while the vehicle looks to be pretty decent, based upon the sons statements, you have some good sale price 'wiggle room'.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 05:25 AM
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Ah, Joe just beat me to the post while I was typing some items out.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Vintage Chief View Post
I don't believe the steering wheel is the stock steering wheel born on the car (although it may have been available as an option but I don't believe that steering wheel was an option).
The four spoke steering wheel was available on the 1970 Supreme as RPO N34, a $15.80 option. Whether this car came with it originally or not cannot be determined. Every 1970-72 Cutlass has this wheel today, along with a repro fiberglass hood.

The incorrect pulleys tells me that this engine is not original to the car. The VIN derivative stamp will prove or disprove that.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Vintage Chief View Post
It sorta depends on what you'd like to do w/ the vehicle - "as-is" daily driver, restoration to original condition as a CS convertible, etc., etc. The vehicle looks in pretty decent condition - the top looks brand new, interior looks pretty good. Depending on price & what you'd like to do w/ it - of course your call. IMO, you have some serious wiggle room in further discussions w/ the owner(s) which should help your case in arriving at a sale price. The son wants as much as they can obtain for the car, but his statements are not correct "...only the radiator & air cleaner has been replaced..."

The intake manifold is an aftermarket Edelbrock, it has been replaced. The valve covers are Edelbrock, they have been replaced, as well. I don't believe the steering wheel is the stock steering wheel born on the car (although it may have been available as an option but I don't believe that steering wheel was an option). It appears the water pump, fan clutch and fan have been replaced. While I can see what appears to be two windshield washer tube lines, I don't see a windshield washer fluid container. Others can probably point out other items which are not original and have been replaced (some already discussed, OAI hood, 4-4-2 badging, trunk wing).

Again, while the vehicle looks to be pretty decent, based upon the sons statements, you have some good sale price 'wiggle room'.
I'm looking for a good quality driver, something to enjoy that wont need body work or paint. I'm not overly concerned about the mechanical work if needed. I was looking for 442's only, but I'm not considering a good cutlass with a 455. I'll have to take a real close look in person this weekend and giver a rip. Hard to value, if body/frame/pans are good and the paint is on point I'm really not sure what this is worth... besides what someone will pay.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 08:59 AM
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Well, it is obvious that it is NOT a 442, it is a Supreme that someone altered / customized to their liking. The uncle's son saying it is all original either doesn't know what his uncle did to the car or he's attempting to pass it off as a real 442 convertible for a higher sales price. As said, this gives you a lot of room for price negotiating if you decide to buy it.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
Well, it is obvious that it is NOT a 442, it is a Supreme that someone altered / customized to their liking. The uncle's son saying it is all original either doesn't know what his uncle did to the car or he's attempting to pass it off as a real 442 convertible for a higher sales price. As said, this gives you a lot of room for price negotiating if you decide to buy it.
They were very clear upfront that it was not a 442, I knew it was clearly a clone. I think your right on in that the kids really dont know much about whats actually been done over the years besides the fact that it was repainted 2 years ago. I'll check the block and trans, but doubt they match unless they painted the block the wrong blue. There are "spare" parts that will go with it, probably an indication that they did some work on it the kids are not aware of.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 10:19 AM
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The mirrors are definitely not the 70 only sport mirrors. They don’t appear to be the 71-72 ones either. Looks like they used mirrors off a later 70’s or early 80’s car. The angle of the base is different so the heads of the mirrors are not parallel with the ground. The look cocked to one side.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tapper442 View Post
They were very clear upfront that it was not a 442, I knew it was clearly a clone. I think your right on in that the kids really dont know much about whats actually been done over the years besides the fact that it was repainted 2 years ago. I'll check the block and trans, but doubt they match unless they painted the block the wrong blue. There are "spare" parts that will go with it, probably an indication that they did some work on it the kids are not aware of.
OK, cool that they aren't trying to sell it as something it isn't. It's a good looking car and appears to be in very good condition.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 02:04 PM
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If all the metal is there little to no bondo everything works(big items) and its a solid car Id say 13-15K give or take. I'd have to see it in person to really zero in. Rusty 5-6K, Phoenix rot free clean 15-18?
Keep in mind it will likely need 1-3K after you buy it. Where do I get that number: Service ALL fluids to include the trans, diff, power steering, brake, top motor, cooling sys, then belts, hoses, weather stripping, then tires if more then 10 years old. The soft brake and fuel lines & then front end bushings n BJs etc...good bargaining points. Look at the front n rear bushings.
Nice driver if its not a rot box.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Fun71 View Post
The hood is W-25 option. I am doubtful that it is all factory equipment. Those hoods are on more cars today than were ordered with them in the 70s.
The one thing I see that shows the hood may be original to the car is the bump stop in front of the hood latch - it looks like it's been there for a while, and I have yet to see anyone who added a W-25 hood attend to this particular detail. This may actually be the correct hood for the car.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BSiegPaint View Post
The one thing I see that shows the hood may be original to the car is the bump stop in front of the hood latch - it looks like it's been there for a while, and I have yet to see anyone who added a W-25 hood attend to this particular detail. This may actually be the correct hood for the car.
They did claim that the hood was original to the car. Iíll be looking at it tomorrow. I would most likely remove the 442 emblems and bring it back to a cutlass Supreme, the wing would probably need to stay. Iíll be taking a bunch of pictures and upload here. Thanks everyone for the input, I greatly appreciate it.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 01:46 PM
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Looked at it and will pass. Not bad shape, but not what was portrayed. Been sitting awhile, leaking oil and trans fluid pretty heavy. It was not the correct motor, didnít snap any pictures as I knew it wasnít what I wanted right away. There is some emotional attachment to it as well.

Im still on the hunt, 442 or Cutlass and prefer a 455. Thanks for all the help guys!
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 01:55 PM
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Eric - Good luck in your search!
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Vintage Chief View Post
Eric - Good luck in your search!
Thank you! Whoíd have thought it would be this hard... like picking a wife.
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