Novice steering component /bushing questions
July 4th, 2015, 09:33 AM
#1
Novice steering component /bushing questions
I'm in the process of reassembling my chassis with all new Moog components. I expected the parts to be a tight press fit but only the threaded section barely fits through the hole - it seems like there is no way that the parts will compress down to the tapered section.
Do I just use brute force with a press to squish them together?
Secondly, when installing new bushings does orientation matter? I.E. - pressed in from the outside or inside? I don't want to blow it...
Do I just use brute force with a press to squish them together?
Secondly, when installing new bushings does orientation matter? I.E. - pressed in from the outside or inside? I don't want to blow it...
July 4th, 2015, 09:52 AM
#2
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,311
I'm in the process of reassembling my chassis with all new Moog components. I expected the parts to be a tight press fit but only the threaded section barely fits through the hole - it seems like there is no way that the parts will compress down to the tapered section.
Do I just use brute force with a press to squish them together?
Secondly, when installing new bushings does orientation matter? I.E. - pressed in from the outside or inside? I don't want to blow it...
Do I just use brute force with a press to squish them together?
Secondly, when installing new bushings does orientation matter? I.E. - pressed in from the outside or inside? I don't want to blow it...
Yes, orientation matters. The control arms are stamped and have a formed flange where the hole was punched. The bushings are installed in the same direction that the hole was punched.
July 4th, 2015, 12:51 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
What you show is incompatible tapered post and hole.
They must go almost all the way together by hand.
One or both of the parts is wrong. Type 1 vs Type 2 is the chief suspect. Did they neglect to ream that female hole to a taper? It looks like a straight hole in the pic.
If you still have the original parts, clean then up and play with them to see how they should feel and fit. Hell, if they are not WORN OUT... they might be a lot better than new parts from ???
They must go almost all the way together by hand.
One or both of the parts is wrong. Type 1 vs Type 2 is the chief suspect. Did they neglect to ream that female hole to a taper? It looks like a straight hole in the pic.
If you still have the original parts, clean then up and play with them to see how they should feel and fit. Hell, if they are not WORN OUT... they might be a lot better than new parts from ???
Last edited by Octania; July 4th, 2015 at 12:54 PM.
July 4th, 2015, 02:03 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
old parts, old parts, old parts!
The type 1 vs type 2 diffs I have seen are usually MUCH more subtle- they ALMOST mate, but not perfectly. What you show is "no way in hell" compatible. Not even close.
Ck and see if the PN's on the boxes show as correct for your car at e.g. rockauto.com.
The type 1 vs type 2 diffs I have seen are usually MUCH more subtle- they ALMOST mate, but not perfectly. What you show is "no way in hell" compatible. Not even close.
Ck and see if the PN's on the boxes show as correct for your car at e.g. rockauto.com.
July 4th, 2015, 08:44 PM
#6
Another novice Q
Thanks gents.
Sorry Joe - my car is a '64 cutlass. Most guys that respond are 'regulars' who are familiar with my money pit.
Joe - that means insert bushings on the flange side, right?
What I showed was the idler arm side and center link. I am using the factory manual steering box and the center link doesn't fit that either. So it seems like the center link is the culprit. Sucky. I've had it too long - can't return it. I ordered everything from Rockauto except that - it came from Carparts.com
I do have the original parts so I will have a good look. They are all fragged so reinstallation isn't an option. I was hoping to have my front end assembled this weekend. Not so!
Lastly - where do I get a set of the end caps for the upper control arm shafts? I can't reuse the originals and my local parts house didn't know. See pic...
Sorry Joe - my car is a '64 cutlass. Most guys that respond are 'regulars' who are familiar with my money pit.
Joe - that means insert bushings on the flange side, right?
What I showed was the idler arm side and center link. I am using the factory manual steering box and the center link doesn't fit that either. So it seems like the center link is the culprit. Sucky. I've had it too long - can't return it. I ordered everything from Rockauto except that - it came from Carparts.com
I do have the original parts so I will have a good look. They are all fragged so reinstallation isn't an option. I was hoping to have my front end assembled this weekend. Not so!
Lastly - where do I get a set of the end caps for the upper control arm shafts? I can't reuse the originals and my local parts house didn't know. See pic...
July 5th, 2015, 06:12 AM
#7
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,311
The holes in the control arms are slightly different in size - the bushings similarly have a larger section just under the flange in the bushing. They only go in one way. If installed correctly, the bushings will go nearly all the way into the arms before you need to press them. Look carefully at the metal sleeve of the bushings and you'll see the raised area.
Ah, you have the 1964-only metal upper control arm bushings. Kanter should be able to provide these.
Also, there are two different center links for these cars, 13/16" and 7/8". I'm guessing you need the smaller one, which is the less common and thus much more expensive one.
Just out of curiosity, what's the build date on your car?
Lastly - where do I get a set of the end caps for the upper control arm shafts? I can't reuse the originals and my local parts house didn't know. See pic...
Also, there are two different center links for these cars, 13/16" and 7/8". I'm guessing you need the smaller one, which is the less common and thus much more expensive one.
Just out of curiosity, what's the build date on your car?
July 5th, 2015, 07:51 AM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
"Also, there are two different center links for these cars, 13/16" and 7/8". I'm guessing you need the smaller one, which is the less common and thus much more expensive one."
==========================
I believe this difference goes hand in hand with PS vs Manual Steering. The 7/8 vs 13/16 is just the "easy" way to quickly differentiate one from another. The fitment difference as you illustrate is one of very different tapers, and the center to center distance may vary as well. Been a while since I examined the B/C body Thompson vs Saginaw center link diffs.
As for the bushings, if it need not be 100.000% original, I believe you can change over to later type bushing and arms.
==========================
I believe this difference goes hand in hand with PS vs Manual Steering. The 7/8 vs 13/16 is just the "easy" way to quickly differentiate one from another. The fitment difference as you illustrate is one of very different tapers, and the center to center distance may vary as well. Been a while since I examined the B/C body Thompson vs Saginaw center link diffs.
As for the bushings, if it need not be 100.000% original, I believe you can change over to later type bushing and arms.
July 5th, 2015, 08:41 AM
#9
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,311
I believe this difference goes hand in hand with PS vs Manual Steering. The 7/8 vs 13/16 is just the "easy" way to quickly differentiate one from another. The fitment difference as you illustrate is one of very different tapers, and the center to center distance may vary as well.
July 5th, 2015, 11:21 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mora, Sweden
Posts: 145
This is from the Team Chevelle forum, got some good part numbers. My 1965 Cutlass has the 13/16" center link:
All 1966 Chevelles (power and manual steering) came with the same center link - Moog part # DS740, which has been discontinued. This is what is commonly referred to as the 7/8" diameter center link.
1964 was a split year - some came with the Moog DS682 - the 13/16" diameter center link - and some came with the DS740. The DS740 was used on 1965-1967 Chevelles without exception.
The measurement of 7/8" or 13/16" refers to the diameter of the center link forging itself. Please note that this applies to OE center links - many aftermarket center links use the same diameter for both versions, so you can't always use this measurement to see which center link you have if it has been replaced with an aftermarket version.
Both center links use the same inner and outer tie rod ends - in fact, the same outers, inners, and sleeves are used from 1964-1970 for power and . That would be Moog #ES333RL (outer), http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=110754495617&item=110754495617 (inner), and (sleeves).
One difference is the idler arm. The 13/16" center link (DS682) is compatible with the . The 7/8" center link (DS740) is compatible with the K5142 idler arm. Power steering and manual steering use the same idler arm.
The other difference is the pitman arm. Moog never made pitman arms as they are non-wear items on these cars. However, we do offer replacement pitman arms. Our part # 103-10040 fits 1964-1967 Chevelles with 7/8" center links AND power steering. Our part # 103-10041 fits 1968-1972 Chevelles with power steering. We don't offer a pitman arm for the 1964.
Back to your original question - here's a link to the correct 7/8" center link with free shipping on Summit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/POF-106-10061/
One nice feature is that it is black e-coated for rust prevention.
In case all of this was a bit confusing, we do offer steering linkage kits that come with everything in one kit so it is sure to play nice together! __________________
Zack Kanter
Proforged Chassis Parts
www.proforged.com
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393763
All 1966 Chevelles (power and manual steering) came with the same center link - Moog part # DS740, which has been discontinued. This is what is commonly referred to as the 7/8" diameter center link.
1964 was a split year - some came with the Moog DS682 - the 13/16" diameter center link - and some came with the DS740. The DS740 was used on 1965-1967 Chevelles without exception.
The measurement of 7/8" or 13/16" refers to the diameter of the center link forging itself. Please note that this applies to OE center links - many aftermarket center links use the same diameter for both versions, so you can't always use this measurement to see which center link you have if it has been replaced with an aftermarket version.
Both center links use the same inner and outer tie rod ends - in fact, the same outers, inners, and sleeves are used from 1964-1970 for power and . That would be Moog #ES333RL (outer), http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=110754495617&item=110754495617 (inner), and (sleeves).
One difference is the idler arm. The 13/16" center link (DS682) is compatible with the . The 7/8" center link (DS740) is compatible with the K5142 idler arm. Power steering and manual steering use the same idler arm.
The other difference is the pitman arm. Moog never made pitman arms as they are non-wear items on these cars. However, we do offer replacement pitman arms. Our part # 103-10040 fits 1964-1967 Chevelles with 7/8" center links AND power steering. Our part # 103-10041 fits 1968-1972 Chevelles with power steering. We don't offer a pitman arm for the 1964.
Back to your original question - here's a link to the correct 7/8" center link with free shipping on Summit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/POF-106-10061/
One nice feature is that it is black e-coated for rust prevention.
In case all of this was a bit confusing, we do offer steering linkage kits that come with everything in one kit so it is sure to play nice together! __________________
Zack Kanter
Proforged Chassis Parts
www.proforged.com
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393763
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