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I found out about this kit on a Buick forum. I talked to the guy about the availability for Olds shifters. He agreed to use my spare shifter for prototyping and mock-up. I sent the shifter to him a few weeks ago, he text me last night and said he has a design he is happy with.
That’s my spare shifter from my 69 Cutlass. I’m pretty sure the shifter is the same from 67-72, other than the console. I seem to recall seeing the same console as my 69 in a Toronado and the big cars?
I’m sure someone in readerland can confirm that?
While they aren’t available yet, he is confident they will be soon. He plans to use the shifter to mock up a gate for the 20004R, 4L60 and 4L80 trans, with standard and hopefully reverse pattern.
Nice! Thanks for collaborating to get that made, should be some interest among the Olds community and a crap load cheaper than retrofitting a dual gate. Now someone just needs to make a new, legit shift lens for OD, both std Olds & DG. Maybe an OD conversion for DG? I have a real OD DG that is tough to come by and requires mods to play nice with console, would be nice to have the proper Olds frame w/ ability to access low w/ OD trans.
Either shifter + OD + “True Slap” + Legit Lens = Serendipity (baby!)
I know, limited market but for a little guy with ability there might be enough people interested to make it worthwhile.
Last edited by bccan; March 29th, 2021 at 09:43 AM.
I saw this on some Facebook group not long ago and told him I'm interested in an Oldsmobile version. Very cool that he is prototyping with yours Matt. Excited to see this come to reality because I know I'll never let myself pop for the $$$ to get or recreate the dual gate for a 69.
I asked him if he was ready for me to share that he was happy with his design. He said I could go ahead and post a link to his YouTube video. I then sent him a link with the thread I started. He appreciated the advertising, but requested that I change the title from a rachet shift to the true slap name. I edited the title, it shows up on the edited page as true slap, I saved the changes, so why does still say rachet shifter?
Anyway, I guess technically it’s not a rachet shifter. A true rachet shifter has the shifter staying in the same resting position, each tim you hit the shifter it goes up on gear at a time and returns to its original position. The true slap is kinda like the Pontiac abd Mopar shifters, they follow the same shift pattern but will only go one gear at a time. Either way, a pretty slick item.
Kenneth - The Shiftworks detents aren’t ratchet/slap mods, the DG lenses unfortunately barely resemble what’s in the 70-72 plates and won’t fit iirc. The DG cable kit crams the gears into the same travel as 3 speed and it takes a lot of dicking to get manual low if you even can. They took a shot at it but didn't nail it, the shifter frame top plate travel and gate/detent spacing needs to be different. This also could all have changed over the last 10 years.
I tried it on my cars and got it “good enough for the kid” in the red car, blue car took a committed search to find a new, in the box OD version which gets everything right except ended up using Shiftworks cable. The body on the OD DG is different (I think it is actually an F Body unit) so some creativity & fabbing necessary to work w/ Olds mount brackets and console/trim plate.
Last edited by bccan; March 29th, 2021 at 01:14 PM.
Yes, I was aware of the ShiftWorks issues, and also that their conversions don't change the way the shifter works as they simply added another gear position. I just posted the links as I thought from your comment that you weren't aware of them.
I read a while back that they did make some changes to the DG kit but I haven't heard from anyone who has installed one to know if it is any easier to get the gears dialed in compared to the earlier versions. Heck, my factory DG was a PITA to adjust correctly so it would go into 1st and Park, so I wouldn't want to have even more issues than that.
Anyway, I'm glad to see a shift detent plate that works the way GM should have made them in the first place. I always thought it was wrong that you had to push a button (or lift a T lever) to downshift from Drive, but there was nothing to prevent you from upshifting from first right through all forward gears and into Neutral. Dumb design.
Last edited by Fun71; March 29th, 2021 at 03:56 PM.
Yes, I was aware of the ShiftWorks issues, and also that their conversions don't change the way the shifter works as they simply added another gear position. I just posted the links as I thought from your comment that you weren't aware of them.
I read a while back that they did make some changes to the DG kit but I haven't heard from anyone who has installed one to know if it is any easier to get the gears dialed in compared to the earlier versions. Heck, my factory DG was a PITA to adjust correctly so it would go into 1st and Park, so I wouldn't want to have even more issues than that.
Anyway, I'm glad to see a shift detent plate that works the way GM should have made them in the first place. I always thought it was wrong that you had to push a button (or lift a T lever) to downshift from Drive, but there was nothing to prevent you from upshifting from first right through all forward gears and into Neutral. Dumb design.
I have the new shift works Dual Gate conversion with my 4l80e. It was a breeze to set it up, it shifts to all gears easily.
I spent countless hours trying to dial in dual gate on th350, same issues as you 1st and Park. and this was with an OEM cable. Spent 10 minutes dialing in 4l80e, if that.
Thank you all for the interest in my detent design, and a big thank you to Matt for loaning out the shifter. I need to find a shifter for myself for future design and testing of more Oldsmobile detents.
A little back story: I've had classic Chevys and Oldsmobiles for almost 47 years, ever since I was 14. My first car was a white 2 door '65 F85 and I've had '72 and '75 Cutlasses. I've always done my own repairs and restoration work on my cars for two reasons. I love to learn, and I never had the money to pay someone else to do what I could learn to do myself. I had 2 years of auto mechanic's training in high school, but then became an IBEW Inside Wireman and worked industrial construction for 22 years before getting an electrical maintenance job in a local hydro-electric power plant 10 years ago.
I bought a highly optioned '70 Monte Carlo SS454 in Kansas in '08, and after completing the restoration a couple of years ago, in my home shop, I decided to look into making a better detent for the horseshoe shifter than what Shiftworks and Thomson Performance had available. With their design for a 3 speed automatic, which was patented by Bob Thomson after he invented it for his Chevelle, the user can slap shift for one upshift, but not both. It's better than the factory detent, but not exactly what many people wanted. That design requires the user (when in 1st gear) to squeeze the handle and hold it tight while pushing forward to make a positive stop at 2nd gear. An actual slap shift can be made from 2-3, with a positive stop at 3. After 2 long days in my shop, and about 10 tries with sheetmetal prototypes, I had a fully working design that let me make both upshifts positively by simply slapping the shifter handle twice. I knew immediately that others would like to have the same type of shifter also, and since my unique detent design let me slap shift twice, not once, I named it the True Slap detent. I studied the USPTO website and wrote my own provisional patent application to get patent pending rights. I've since submitted the non-provisional patent application with the help of a patent lawyer. I had been occasionally hand making some parts for the automatic load leveling system that all Monte Carlo SS454s had, but I had to start a small business to have a local company laser cut my detent plates. I currently have 10 different designs for Chevrolet shifters, and I recently made my first 2 designs for '70-'72 Buicks, all using the unique feature in my patent application that lets the user slap shift positively for both upshifts.
I had been keeping an eye out for an Olds shifter to design a True Slap detent with and Matt offered his spare '69 shifter at a good time for me. I really like the solid construction of the factory handle and the way it feels. I was able to make the first True Slap detent for it last Friday night. I refined it Saturday with a second prototype and was very happy with how well it worked.
I've gotten excellent help with creating drawings and dxf files from my prototypes at our local high school. The machine trades instructor and his students take them and make the computer files, then laser cut them from 1/8" plywood. Their laser machine isn't powerful enough to cut steel, but they recently got a water jet, and they've used it to cut excellent steel samples of my Buick detents.
I drew a new Oldsmobile reverse pattern detent today, and the plan is to make 4 total designs for them. I hope to make all 4 available in the next 12 months, along with working with some other shifters. The Olds detents will be under $100, just like my Chevrolet detents. The Buick detents are higher because that shifter design requires me to make 2 parts for them, not just one. I'm making the Buick and Olds parts by hand, as time allows, until the dxf files are completed and they can be laser cut. All are created and made in Hannibal, Missouri.
I'll be glad to post a for sale ad when I have some detents available. Making parts that let classic car owners enjoy their babies more is satisfying. I've had guys tell me they've taken their aftermarket shifters out and re-installed their GM shifter with a True Slap detent and they love it. That really makes a small town boy feel good. I currently have about 12 YouTube videos that can be found by searching for True Slap detent.
Dan, thanks for the info (the post was not too long - I love all the info you provided). A 4 speed version of this would make me consider swapping out the Dual Gate for a regular shifter.
Thanks for all of your work on this, it is seriously appreciated, and I am sure many people will be interested in it.
I know the 79 Trans Am used a gated shifter. If you pushed the shifter forward and towards the passenger side at the same time it would only go one gear at a time. My buddy had that car for 6 months before he figured that out. I don’t know if the other 3rd gen F cars had the same design. I don’t recall ever seeing anything in the owners manual either (not that many people read them!). Probably another example of the engineers trying to design fun cars that auto enthusiast would enjoy, while constantly trying to avoid the wrath of upper management.
I've shipped 3 prototypes out to be tested by Olds owners. 2 are the True Slap TSO3 that is in the video, and the other one is a TSO4 for an overdrive.
Matt, it looks like the tracking shows your detent will be delivered today.
Ratchet both going forward and back
ONE gear increments slap bang pound forward and reverse shift pattern GM 3 speed automatics
Oh reverse lock out TOO
I've gotten feedback from a couple of men that contacted me and they've tested the TSO3 (three speed) detent, and the TSO4 for the overdrives. They're very happy with their testing. The machine trades instructor at our high school has a student working on the computer files for the TSO3 detent plate and it should be finished soon. I'm taking my TSO4 and TSO3R (reverse pattern 3 speed) prototypes to an engineer at the local manufacturing company in a week or 2 to have their files made. Things are moving forward.
Starting tomorrow evening, it’s going to rain for the next 5 days. I plan to get the gate installed in my car over the upcoming monsoon season. 🙄 looking forward to trying it out.
Update: I received great news Friday that my True Slap patent application has been approved in less than 15 months.
The dxf file for the first Oldsmobile True Slap detent (TSO3) is finished and I now have a sample that was cut on a water jet. It works perfectly on the first try! No changes are needed. I've sent the file (along with 3 other files for Buick detents) to the local company that laser cuts my detent plates and I hope to have laser cut parts to test very soon. I've been making some Oldsmobile detents by hand and will get them heat treated next week.
Matt, I'm sure you'll be happy with your prototype, also. The Oldsmobile factory design is excellent for the type of custom detent I've made. The factory detent is inverted, compared to the Chevrolet and Buick detents and that makes the slap feature work easily, even with the strong spring in the shifter.
Unlike the Chevrolet and Buick detents, the Oldsmobile inverted detent has room to allow even the 3-4 upshift to be done by simply slapping the shifter. When in 3rd, you can slap it down and forward and the pawl will hit a positive stop at the OD position. It won't accidentally go to neutral.
Dan
Last edited by Dan Janes; May 27th, 2021 at 06:07 PM.
Thanks for the question. The price will likely be $90, plus $8 for shipping in the states. That's the same as my Chevrolet detents. I'm waiting on a quote now from the manufacturer for the local supplier.
Dan, now that it's patented, is the operating theory that pushing it in a direction puts up a pin that will interface with the detent track and that pin causes the stop and will stay up until you let off the pressure?
The pawl (round pin) on the shifter handle simply follows the detent surface. The spring in the Olds shifter causes the pawl to be pushed up, and against the detent, unlike the Chevrolet and Buick shifters I'm working with, which have a rectangular cross section crossbar that has springs pushing down on it. With the Olds shifter in 1st gear, you "slap" the handle forward and the pawl follows a channel forward and down a ramp. When the second gear position is reached, it hits a stop and movement stops. That stop at the second gear position is supported from the rear of the detent, and below the pawl. After hitting the 2nd gear stop, the shifter spring forces the pawl up. When you push or slap the handle the second time, the pawl passes above the tip of the second gear stop and moves to the third gear position, where it hits the third gear stop that's supported from above. It's just a simple stop between N and Drive. Obviously, this stop is just to keep from accidentally shifting to Neutral. They are a very simple design that is simple to install and to operate. No moving parts are added to the great design of this shifter. Just remove the original part and replace it with mine.
The 4 speed design works very similarly, but has an additional stop for the OD position. Also, the 4 speed (TSO4) detent plate has a feature that lets you downshift positively very fast, without having to mash the pedal.
You can see that the TSO3 also lets you downshift 1 gear at a time, positively.
Dan
Last edited by Dan Janes; May 30th, 2021 at 08:24 AM.
The pawl (round pin) on the shifter handle simply follows the detent surface. The spring in the Olds shifter causes the pawl to be pushed up, and against the detent, unlike the Chevrolet and Buick shifters I'm working with, which have a rectangular cross section crossbar that has springs pushing down on it. With the Olds shifter in 1st gear, you "slap" the handle forward and the pawl follows a channel forward and down a ramp. When the second gear position is reached, it hits a stop and movement stops That stop at the second gear position is supported from the rear of the detent, and below the pawl. After hitting the 2nd gear stop, the shifter spring forces the pawl up. When you push or slap the handle the second time, the pawl passes above the tip of the second gear stop and moves to the third gear position, where it hits the third gear stop that's supported from above. It's just a simple stop between N and Drive. Obviously, this stop is just to keep from accidentally shifting to Neutral. They are a very simple design that is simple to install and to operate. No moving parts are added to the great design of this shifter. Just remove the original part and replace it with mine.
The 4 speed design works very similarly, but has an additional stop for the OD position. Also, the 4 speed (TSO4) detent plate has a feature that lets you downshift positively very fast, without having to mash the pedal.
You can see that the TSO3 also lets you downshift 1 gear at a time, positively.
Dan, do you have a website? I'm interested in the Buick and Chevy also, thanks.
Matt, thanks for posting, good find.
Thank you for the message. I have a lady working on the website, but she's painfully slow. Please search YouTube with the words True Slap detent for all of my videos and my contact information is there. I'll have a few of these that I just finished to sell very soon. I'll also be posting a for sale ad here, in the correct place, soon. Private messages are good.
I made a change to the TSO4. It's long enough that there's enough space to add another stop that even enables the user to slap shift from 3rd to OD. These Oldsmobile shifters are the best I've worked with for applying the True Slap designs to.
March 28th, 2021, 03:39 PM
