Railguy

My work van ,a 2006 ford e250 with a 330 v8 just started running sluggish. It's down on power and milage has dropped 2-3 mpg. I changed plugs they looked about right for 60,000 miles. I changed air filter . What else can I do . Fuel filter? This happened pretty sudden not gradual. Check engine light not on but I have had problems be for and it didn't come on. 145,000 miles .
Railguy

Tedd Thompson

Fuel filter maybe, or perhaps the catalytic converter could be plugged up. ... Just a guess from afar... Tedd

2olds

Try cleaning your maf sensor.Make sure you use the right cleaner.

Railguy

If I run some 92 octane could that clean it or is there no way to unplug it.
Railguy

Railguy

What kind of cleaner.
Railguy

Rocketowner

X2 on Tedd's post.Either one that he mentioned could be the problem,and I suspect one of the coil packs. They are notorious for this problem on that model Ford products. Best of luck, Larry

RROLDSX

Try putting a code reader on it. It may have some stored code. Check gas cap is on properly. Spray MAF sensor. Also run the van in a lower gear for awhile to try to clean out
a possible plugged catalytic converter. Coil pack failure should store a code if it is failing.
I've had that happen w/o check engine light because of sporadic failure. Good luck.

2olds

Take the MAF sensor out spray the little wires at the bottom of sensor with the maf air cleaner.They sell at auto parts stores.

Railguy

A couple months ago when I started it. It ran really bad then straightened out but the check engine light was on . Computer said miss fire on 7 could be a coil pack or plug. So since it had been a while since I changed plugs I did that first. I moved the 7 pack to the front of the engine where it would be easy to get to.plus if light came on again and said miss fire on 5 than I could be pretty sure it was the pack.
I run alot on interstates 80 or 90 at times I don't think it's the cat. The plugs weren't black at all. Is there a way to check the cat?
Railguy

droldsmorland

check out FTE.com. Mountains of info on the 3 valve 5.4, (had one, 08 SD). If one of the COPs was bad it would likely not be intermittent, they tend to just quit. Did you apply die-electric paste on the connections after the new plug install? Did you break any of the plugs off with the wonderful 2 piece junk OEM plugs(FUN). Hopefully you installed the upgraded one piece plugs. Hopefully you used Autolites not champions. Some have reported problems with the latter, out of the box.
First thing is to extract any pending or eminent codes. If that shows ok then Im with others on cleaning the MAF/fuel system/and throttle body. If you dont see any codes on the quick scan take it to a good wrench to read the system IOs on a full scan.
Another problem with the 5.4 is the air intake tubes and throttle body can leak. Replace the gaskets and clean the throttle body. Clean the MAF sensor again, and replace the air filter if its needed. Replace the fuel filter for good practice. Dont use an oil soaked reusable air filter. They are well known to contaminate the MAFs flow resistors causing all sorts of driveability problems.
There could be deeper problems such as somethings amiss with the cam phasers and the VCT sensors this should show up as a pending or eminent, so start with he simple stuff above then get the deep scan and go from there.
Use your ears/hands to listen and feel the exhaust pulse to look for a clogged converter. A seasoned wrench can help with that. Loosen up the exhaust head pipes at the exhaust manifolds and take it for a spin with the induced leak. If it runs better the cats likely the culprit. Or you need to physically pull it out and look at the catalyst substrait. When they are really plugged that will sometimes throw an pre and post (if equipped) O2 code. It will look erratic on an O scope or throw P0420 (Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold code).

Railguy

I didn't have time to stop by auto zone today because of snow. Maybe this weekend. What is COP and MAT sensor.
Railguy

gs72

I can't tell you how many times a customer has brought a vehicle in to my dealer after spending 200 to 500 on internet based advise; only to be properly diagnosed by us. The Ford PC based IDS (integrated diagnosis system)software and interface is the only thing that will give you a definitive diagnosis. Some Indy shops have this equipment as well, I would ask them and if they don't have it keep going. I know the dealer is expensive but you don't have to buy the repair, you just have to pay for the diag. Try and talk to the technician if you are planning on making the repairs yourself.

droldsmorland

COP= Coil over plug. No ref to MAT its MAF Mass Air Flow(sensor)

joe_padavano

I have to say, that threw me for just a second until I did the math.

droldsmorland

Im not sure if this is a general advisory statement or a dig at my info?.

RROLDSX

I can personally attest to trusting certain dealerships and not others. I have recommended to many to bypass the corner shops and go right to the dealer as they have been trained and have the knowledge for your particular brand which should happen at any reputable dealer. I have seen however, my dealership change from being reputable to absolute an absolute money grab including false diagnosis. Which I feel must have been intentional due to them having full diagnostic capabilities. Their estimate for a missed diagnostic $1200 pls taxes. My cost for my repair $100.00 for new plugs and a new COP. Now I have no trustworthy *ord service facility in my area. Sorry by the facts are facts. There really isn't anything complicated on a closed loop system with a good OBD2 reader.

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, "mechanics" today are really only just "parts replacers". They read the codes and replace the most likely cause. It turns out that even on an OBD II system, there are a lot of failures that either won't set a code or are not the most obvious cause of the code. Dealership "mechanics" typically are no better, I've found.

I have an OTC Genisys with software up to 2005 (the newest I need) and as you point out, it helps diagnose most problems, but not all. You still need to read the CSM and understand the specifics of the system to really troubleshoot as opposed to simply throwing new parts at the problem and hoping one of them fixes it. I've found that often, the problem is simply a dirty connector, so while replacing the part (which requires the connector to be demated and remated) "fixes" the problem, so would simply cleaning the connector and not having to pay for a new ECU or whatever sensor.

Naturally, all my problems are either intermittents or are not ones that are fixed by the indicated part replacement. I'll also point out that the newer GM factory manuals provide very little on how the systems work. They are primarily troubleshooting flowcharts, and every single chart eventually gets to a step that says "replace computer with known good unit and retest". Easy for the dealership, not so much for the home mechanic.

oldcutlass

Is there a place to get the actual software print out for given systems? In manufacturing and/or automation there usually is a printout available for logic troubleshooting. I agree with the old saying that software does not break but if mechanics can understand how the hardware and software interacts, it would make troubleshooting much easier. Hmmmmm maybe that makes too much sense....

joe_padavano

It also makes it easier to bypass the EPA-approved emissions standards, which is why this is NOT readily available. Also, it's all proprietary. If one automaker succeeds in building an engine management system with good power and economy, why would they make it easy for their competitors to have access to the code?

oldcutlass

You don't think that the competition hasn't hacked into their software??

joe_padavano

The people who sell aftermarket tuners have hacked it also. That doesn't mean they plan to make it easy.

Railguy

Funny you buy a car but you don't own the software. I wonder if you sign an agreement for that in that mountain of papers you sign when buy a new car.
I just found out a while ago that the odometer is in the computer. The read out is all thats on the dash . Change the computer, change the odometer. This is one of the reasons for having to get the computer "rekeyed ".
Railguy

joe_padavano

And I assume you have the fully documented source code from Microsoft or Apple?

Railguy

Did you ever see the movie Brazil?
Railguy

Railguy

I cleaned the MAF sensor. And it did make a noticeable difference. But it's still not as good as it was . Millage is up a little too but not quite where it was. I haven't changed the fuel filter yet.
Railguy

2olds

Mileage would be down in the winter.Rich starts and **** gas.

gs72

If cleaning the maf made a difference, then you have to reset the keep alive memory (KAM). To clear the fuel trim tables of the bad habits learned from a dirty maf. If you have access to a scanner that will perform this task then no problem. Otherwise you may have to enlist the help of someone that does. You can try disconnecting the positive cable from the battery and touching it to the neg post. This will discharge the capacitors in the pcm. It works but not all of the time. This is from the engineers at the ford training center. By the way I meant no disrespect regarding internet help, I just see a lot of parts being suggested without any real diag going on, not just here but on a lot of forums. Usually you guys are on point with all the olds stuff. I was just offering some advice on using caution when dealing with modern vehicles.

Railguy

I am a big believer in cleaning that maf sensor. From now on every oil change the maf gets sprayed. It still isn't quite right. But it's a lot better . Disconnecting the battery ,touching pos cable to neg then reconnecting it helped to.
Railguy

Railguy

Also I just happened to notice yesterday that the exhaust pipe was really clean like unbelievably clean for an 06 with 145,000. So I'm thinking new fuel filter.
Railguy