gearheads78

I have admit I have been on the fence but I think everyone needs to see this. Its three parts about 25 min long but worth the time spent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5Ou...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAgWO...eature=related

Coltonis

Very interesting!

I have been scratching my head ever since the swine flu hype started. I just don't get it. I'm mean it's still just the flu, there has always been the flu, and every flu season its a "new" strain. There is nothing earth shattering about this. The only difference is this time around healthy adults and adolecents are more prone to catching it. My own brief research into the subject turned up nothing even mildly unsettling to me about swine flu. IMHO the media is bordering on terrorism with the magnitude of its constant harping on the subject. Nothing like a little hysteria and mass panic to pull your country out of a recession...

Also, I think I should point out, Gary Null seems to be a rather interesting character too. A quick search on him rapidly turns up people who are "less than supportive". While I'm suspicious of his track record, he makes some great points in that video and I fully agree with him on this particluar topic.

Ya know what, I say we need a good old fashioned plague; not like the mamby-pamby-timmy-got-the-sniffles-viruses we see now adays. I'm talking another one of those biblical or middle age type diseases, you know, where you bleed outta every orfice, right up until you poop out your bowls and die screaming. That would remind the world what it's like to really be sick again. Who's with me!?.....

70 cutlass s

The shot has mercury in it a local doctor told his staff not to take it said the shot had a better chance of killing you than keeping from getting the flu. The hospital also told their staff that as well, even know they are giving out the shots. I heard over 200 people have died from the shot, but I don't know if that is true. I guess what I saying is if don't need it than don't take it.

derek nesdoly

Full educational discussion is beyond the limits of this forum,but just wanted to raise a few points based on my experiences.Over the last 30 yrs. in the medical field,I,ve noted that a] you will never get a 100% concensus on ANYTHING from infant feeding,vitamins,cancer screening,treatment protocols or vaccinations,b] there will ALWAYS be a few "fringe" physicians and individuals who while sincere,usually have personal issues or an axe to grind,and are on the "Fringe" for a reason,c]there seems to be a pervasive suspician among the lay public that Dr.'s are not also patients [with there own family getting cancer treatments and vaccinations],and that they are paid "pawns" of the drug companies.I worked for 6 years in Africa where people WERE NOT vaccinated,and literally watched hundreds die of simple diseases [measles.rubella,chickenpox,tetanus etc.] that we have essentially eliminated over here as a cause of mortality,BY vaccines.I doubt any of you who step on a rusty nail,or get bitten by a rabid coyote would hesitate to get a tetanus shot or the rabies vaccine!! All these vaccines are made the very same way.Despite passionate TV interviews by noted scholars such as Jenny McCarthy and this guy, there has been NO proof for example that infant vaccines cause Autism.I cannot comment on Botulism/Anthrax vaccines,as they era not a] used in general medical practice,and b]I have no personal experience. As for the Flushots this year: To put things in perspective...5000 deaths WORLDWIDE this year from H1N1...32,000 deaths just in N. America each year from regular seasonal flu!! Absolutely,the media have been irresponsible fear-mongers on this one!! Both vaccines are made EXACTLY the same way.Every year you have been getting an H1N1 strain in your flushot[last year it was Brisbane],so why the big fuss?As to mercury and thimerisol,they're also in those Tetanus and rabies shots you would have taken.Do these flushots work?? Each year we have to make a decision as to what starins to put in the vaccine...if we "aim" at A,B, and C,and that's what's circulating,we get GREAT results[we decreased deaths,hospital admissions and lost work hrs.75% one year].If A,Dand F were circulating,you get the story.."Oh,I got the flushot and I got the flu anyway". Enough for now.I'll watch this thread and try to contribute in a positive way as much as possible.Derek

derek nesdoly

If that is truly what he said,they may want to ensure that their boss actually HAS a medical degree,and ask for some data to back up that "somewhat" extreme viewpoint!

70 cutlass s

I don't know if its true its just what I heard. It might be all bull. Its just what I heard its not viewpoint. I would ask a doctor before getting the shot.

Nilsson

Just about anything you eat or drink anymore has minute amounts of mercury anymore. This is a byproduct of coal fired electric generation plants.

scrappie

scrappie

So Derek if you had a 6 and 4 yr old would you feel comfortable injecting them with the swine flu vaccine?

442scotty

Ya know what, I say we need a good old fashioned plague; not like the mamby-pamby-timmy-got-the-sniffles-viruses we see now adays. I'm talking another one of those biblical or middle age type diseases, you know, where you bleed outta every orfice, right up until you poop out your bowls and die screaming. That would remind the world what it's like to really be sick again. Who's with me!?.....[/quote]


Mix up a batch and let it loose in the middle east where it can do some good work

BIGJERR

And we just gave it to our 3 year old grandaughter......

2blu442

I watched the videos and found them interesting, there's no doubt he's passionate about this topic. I am disturbed by the idea of it being mandatory or people getting fired. I have a buddy who's wife is a nurse. She gets the regular flu shot every year but does not want the H1N1 shot.

Derek, I thought I'd read but may be wrong that the regular flu shot has a dead virus in it. But that the H1N1 uses a small about of live virus and that the nasal spray and inject have different amounts. Do you know if that's true? John

stevengerard

unfortunately nothing is 100% perfect, these forums are where so much of this bad info gets circulated, yes I have small children, yes they will get the vaccination and yes many people in my neighborhood have gotten it, matter of fact a good friend of mine who is a surgeon already took it and just got whatever his daughter has - a variation of the flu but not H1N1 - the shots are specific to the strains that they suspect will be the most plentiful in the upcoming season.

2blu442

442scotty, tounge in cheek, I can think of another answer but won't say THAT out loud!

I am a religious person who owns guns and is pro-life so I may already be on somebody's watch list

wolfman98

I have not heard of anyone here being forced to take the shot but I can see it being encouraged in some industries , like those that take care of small children and the elderly. it's kind of like that old theory an ounce of prevention. Derek is correct about how the vaccine is made and shortages may be due to demand. there sure wasn't this big a hohaha about the Avion flu or bird flu except that people were sure worried about not getting vaccinated for it. the difference with H1N1 seems to be that it affects a broader spectrum of ages which is what makes it somewhat worse than typical flus that we see. If I had small children I would definately have them vaccinated and my mother will be vaccinated in Nov. As for me I think that I will pass on it because I always do. This may be due in part to the fact that I have not had the flu for many , many years and do not socialize ( bars , parties restaurants etc.) I will encourage my girlfriend to get it along with her kids and grand daughter because they always seem to get colds and the flu regularly.
as far as the comment about dead or live cells being injected? this confuses me somewhat and perhaps Derek can clear it up but from what I understand about the flu shots is that you are injected with minut amounts of 3 or 4 different flu strains so your body's defense system can build up antibodies to these strains. Therefore I would have imagined that "live cells' would be injected?

BIGJERR

There are 5 strains of H1N1 from what I gather.......I wouldnt tell anyone to get it who doesnt want the shot.......But if you get it you'll wish you did...Its nasty

BIGJERR

Well said Derek........

z11375ss

Captain trips is not for the faint of heart. Losing a child to the flu was a distinct possibility not that long ago. I heard the reason 15 to 45 year olds are getting swiney is because they have never been exposed to this type of strain unlike older folks who have built up antibodies. My 1.237 cents...(lower tax bracket thanks to the economy)

z11375ss

Never waste a crisis to advance your agenda. Rahm Emmanuel said something like this. Well, here we go!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...bama_swine_flu

OLD SKL 69

I work in the medical field and can at least clarify the difference between the intranasal spray and the shot. The shot contains a dead strain of the H1N1 whereas the intranasal spray contains a small dose of the live version. Our local hospitals have advised against giving the intranasal version to hospital workers since they have an increased chance of coming down with the swine flu. The hospitals that do have the vaccine will give either version to patients. Most physicians in my area saw a lot of H1N1 back in May and June and it is just not around right now. So they are not very concerned.

The companies that make the vaccines made enough of them based on demand forcasted by the CDC. They do not make that much extra since it has a very short shelf life and our government lowered the amount these companies can charge for them. That's why we went from 28 companies down to 4 that manufacture vaccines. There's just no money in it anymore. Hmmm.... wonder if our government is paying attention to details like this when they are redoing our healthcare system?

So I guess the decision is up to you. I have a 3 and a 5 year old and I do not have any plans to get them vaccinated.

derek nesdoly

YES!! I have already had the seasonal flu shot,and we will be picking up the H1N1 vaccine Monday,and I'll be getting that one as well[as will ALL my family members].People, the true flu[even the regular one] is NOT just a "bad cold"...it will drop you on your ***!! One year I got super busy in the office around flu season,and didn't get my flu shot. It happened to be a year in which we included the exact strains in the vaccine that were causing flu that year. Now it takes a LOT to keep me from working[had shoulder surgery last summer,and was working in a sling in the office 2 days later],but when I got the flu that year,I could no more of worked,[for SEVEN days]than I could have bench-pressed one of Joe P's w-30's!!We are not using the live,attenuated nasal version of the swine flu vaccine here in Canada[neither are most other countries].Folks,nothings perfect,but you don't have to be scared of these vaccines....Derek...p.s. If in the next few months you see me starting threads/posts extolling the virtues of those dreaded 'Chebbies",then maybe I'll be proven wrong about serious side effects!!

Oldsguy

I haven't had any kind of vaccination for any kind of flu for 15 years, ever since I retired from the Navy. I got tired of being forced a vaccination and promised myself never again. I have had the flu once since then..............it's a crap shoot. Not criticizing anyone that will get it or have gotten it, it's just not for me.

2blu442

Derek thank you for your comments and Oldsguys as well. I do believe sensationalism sells and that our news organizations will sometimes do that, as mentioned by one of the other guys. But we all need to understand and make the decision ourselves. There was talk by government officials, and I don't know if it ever happened but some said this should be a mandatory shot like small pox. That's where I pull back and ask that they let me decide.

I talked with my bud this evening and he said that his wife told him she was opposed to taking something with a live virus in it, and that's what they're giving at her hospital. But we all, me included, got the regular flu shot. There may be risks taking it, and risks not taking it. But we shouldn't be sheep! If something is important to us we should make the time to do the research and decide for ourselves. John

derek nesdoly

I here what you're saying...I have no end of mid to old age patients that tell me they've never had the flu.Some folk may just have a greater immune system than others[ or they just stay home all flu season tinkering with their Olds and never come in contact with it]!But here's a thot: our immune systems decrease with age[we age more like MILK than WINE]...flu shots are like free insurance[up here]...you probably haven't had a house fire or a flat tire in the last 15 years,but you still have fire insurance,and carry an inflated spare!Good to hear all the dialogue on this subject.I'm like the rest of you in that the media wound things up,and the Health agencies have not done a very good job in making clear statements on the vaccination protocols for the piggie flu.Trust me,it's been tough dealing with folks,and trying to help with decision making in the office over the last 6 weeks!Stay well,and remember...you CANNOT get the swine flu from eating Canadian bacon

wolfman98

What , and to think I gave up pork cause of that , and chicken cause of the bird flu , and beef cause of mad cow and vegetables with all those pestisides well forget about it. The good news is that I have lost 100 lbs and am down to a steathy 70 lbs.

J-(Chicago)

Sad but true story:
I've run table saws with no dust mask, laid insulation in shorts and a t shirt, torn off asbestos siding with a bandanna over my mouth, and ashalt shingles in my boxer shorts, Run a hot mop kettle for flatroofs, and demolished moldy apartments full of plaster walls.

When they first showed that goofy nostril shot on the news I said: "I'm not f'n doing that"

I think I have a screw loose.

I may get the shot....it's a coin flipper for me.

A fella on local T.V. here said it best: "Take them or don't take them." "They're making one for you, and if you don't want it, we'll give yours to Africa."

citcapp

Its a personal choice the way I see it for yourself, but when you have children and you are making the choice for them then you have to think more about the decisions you make.

I have never had a childhood illiness, or the flu so I will stick with taking nothing.

Dan Wirth

Thanks to Derek on this one. It's good to know we have an MD with us that is willing to step in and keep things in perspective.

442scotty

I plan on getting the shot and we just started giving it out here...city of 1 million with only four clinics...hmmm...have not done the math but Im thinking I will probably get the flu before I can get the shot...Most people are standing in line for 6 hours in the cold...including the elderly and small children...Now thats planning for you!

442much

They are sending a nurse to administer the shot to everyone who wants one at work. As far as I understand, they are doing the same at the schools. A free shot and they come to you! Not to shabby.

derek nesdoly

Canada ordered 50.4 million doses of this stuff....and we only have 38 million people...maybe we can sell some off to our southern neighbours! I'll see if I can hoard some[like Joe P. does with 442 parts] and post them for sale here on CO. You know: flushots for sale,singly,or cheaper by the dozen.Will consider trade for 69 442 stainless trim pieces. Derek

cutlassgal

zed

I sure aint getting any shots. Seen too many vids about what could be in them as well as wondering why it's so over blown? But I'm one of those types who doesn't always trust the powers that be...

http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.o...spected-death/

442much

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/torsun/09...er_flu_strikes I wonder if there was the same reaction when Polo shots were administered? The link above looks like it's from some protest group. I suppose it's like that republican guy on TV that said in Canada we have a lottery to see who gets medical care. I must win everytime I need it. They are using scare tactics. How about the site that says Canadians will not have a choice in getting it? I'm going to get it or at least get it for my kids. I mean, I got them vacinated when they were babies for polo, rubella, etc. Why not now?
ZED, don't let anyone take your picture...it will capture your soul.

wolfman98

Well I would have to agree that it is a bit of scare tactics but it is also fears of people that is being perpetuated via the internet. This great little device allows anyone with any opinion right or wrong to post it all over the internet.The fact that some people are having adverse reactions to the H1N1 shot and possibly one or two deaths associated with it is really not out the ordinary. Seriously people have had adverse reactions to all the past flu shots but for some reason we expect 100% of all people worldwide to not have any reaction?? Many people never get the shot because they don't trust it. As has been said it is a decision that you have to make for yourselves , I guess my only concern would be for the kids who don't have the option cause their parents will decide. Kids go to schools and sporting events and hang with their friends , we can only hope they don't come in contact with the virus.

zed

Yes,scare tactics.So why would you fall for it and get shots? I prefer to boost my immune in a drug free way instead.If I get sick,I'll ride it out. So you'll have your kids vaccinated and not yourself? Against Polo? Is that a Ralph Lauren disease???

wolfman98

I believe this was what 442much meant.zed do you have any kids? just curious if you believe in vaccinating children for the diseases that modern medicine has almost eliminated in the western world.There are still parts of the world where children do not get vaccinated and mortality rates can be as high as 40%. The H1N1 shots are exactly the same as flu shots people have been taking for decades , the difference is the strain that it was meant to protect you against. One concern is an addative that contains traces of mercury and some are concerned about giving it to pregnant women. This is only in the multi use viles and not in the nasal spray or single use viles , so women have the option of getting that shot if they have any concerns.
The point I tried to make earlier is that there has never , ever been a medicine made that 100% of people can take without any adverse affect. Not even aspirin. Some people will be and are allergic to what 995 of people take for granted. This is the same with foods , some are allergic to peanuts , some to chocolate , clams or seafoods in general. basically I doubt that you can find a food or substance that is injested that you could also not find someone allergic to. the only thing I could think of might be pure water.
It is my choice not to have the flu shot as it is your choice as well , but my reasons are that I rarely come in contact with groups of people. I am currently off work and waiting to have a spinal fusion done and I don't drink or party and don't like large groups of people. I will not even go shopping once the xmas rush starts. But there is a high risk group that I think should get the flu shot and those are kids in schools who always circulate cold and flu viruses. A lot of the cases of H1N1 that we have had in north america has been in schools and I believe parents should take this into consideration when they decide if their kids get the shot.
Us adults can make up our own minds and I am with you that I do not believe that I need to have it but for the reasons stated and because I normally don't get sick.

zed

I know what he meant by Polo.That was my attempt at humour. No I don't have kids but if I was getting them vaccinated I would for sure be doing some research on what is being injected into them. Don't you ever wonder why there are so many cases of Autism now? Could it have anything to do with the vaccinations given to babies and toddlers? I don't know.Maybe it's just a strange coincidence.Maybe this is just a case of pharmacy companies making $$$ off us? Who knows?

I answered this thread originally for about me and the H1N1 shot. Do you remember the effects of Thalidomide in the 50s?That was supposed to be safe too. I prefer to question these things,that's all.We have info at our finger tips now.No excuse not to know some things.Yes,some things on the net are extreme either way but there is still info out there.

derek nesdoly

Just passing along a little info for those who continue to question "what's in those shots",or fear the dreaded "mercury". Firstly,there are safe and unsafe forms of mercury...anybody else remember playing with the shiny silver stuff as a kid? Secondly,the amount of mercury in the thimersol in a flushot,is less than one quarter of what you would get eating one small can of tuna. Oh, and the squalene part of the adjuvant is the very same as what's in those tetanus shots we've all had FYI Derek

scrappie

So my 4yr old spiked a fever of 101 with runny nose, cough on sat. We took him to the doctors on sun. and they looked at him and said make sure he gets plenty of liquid, rest and treat the fever with motrin or tylenol. By tues the fever was gone but he still has the cough and runny nose.
My 6yr old daughter got of the bus on mon. and said she didn't feel well. She had a fever and flu-like symptoms also. The fever lasted until wed. morning and she also still has the cough and runny nose. I took them both to the doctor yesterday and the doctor said they don't test for H1N1 and that it could very well be swine flu. Both my children have not been vaccinated. He also said the media has really blown this thing out of proportion and has a lot of people in a panic. He said every year there is flu and this is just a different strain and in most cases it can be less severe than the normal flu.
I asked him if he had gotten the vaccine and he said no and he would rather see someone who really needs it get it. I also asked the nurse who took my children's vitals if she had been vaccinated and she also said no and if she gets sick, she gets sick.
They really didn't seem that worried about it and it kind of put me at ease. The waiting room had about 5 other children there all sniffing and coughing and the nurse said that is all they are seeing these days.
I don't know if it is swine but seems like it could be. I saw the news tonight and the CDC is estimating that 6 million have already been infected here in the U.S.