Lets say your power goes out in the middle of winter and you do not have a fireplace. What kind of heating unit can you safely use inside your home without being overcome by carbon monoxide poisoning?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

Woodburning heater if properly ventilated. Look up drum heater kit there are some good videos on youtube with mostly great results. Best of all it's cheap to build.

 

Without a vent for an open flame, or electricity, your options are limited.
3 dogs?
Your mate?

Gas oven or such, but they aren't really vented either are they? So you would have to ensure a supply of fresh though cold air is provided.

 

I would only use a certified wood stove in a home never a drum heater too much hot surface to keep kids away from. wall mounted propane heater with a rear outside vent with a couple of 5-10 gallon bottles. These are commonly used in Europe and you can find them on line here in the states. Buy the ones without the blower


http://www.propane101.com/propaneheaters.htm

 

Jay if Natural/LP Gas is available in the home, I would get a unit from TSC or Family Farm n' Home or such like. They all have direct vented units that can be mounted to an exterior wall & hard piped to a gas source. If properly installed & maintained they canprovide safe emergency heat....
http://www.tractorsupply.com//Produc...1?cm_vc=-10005

 

Sorry, but... If you live in a place that gets cold enough in the winter to be dangerous, you should never be without a woodstove or fireplace.

As Copper says, if worse comes to worst, you can keep a woodstove and appropriate lengths of insulated stovepipe, and bring them out and connect them in case of emergency.

Another alternative is to rig the parts of the heating system that need electricity to be able to run on a small generator, and keep one handy. In other words, if you have an oil fired forced hot water system, set it up so that you can disconnect it from the fuse box and power the burner, the circulator pump(s), the thermostat, and the zone valves through an extension cord.
In a similar way, you can power a separate heat source, like a Monitor heater, with a generator backup.

- Eric

 

Are you guys ruling out a contractor type propane heater or a kerosene heater.
I believe that I have seen kerosene heaters advertised for the home. Have those kerosene heaters been deemed unsafe?

 

A portable generator that's large enough to power some essentials that you can run outdoors and bring a cord into the house.


Or you can just lock the house up and drive to somewhere that has heat and stay there.

 

Those units need electricity to run . And they release fumes and smoke from time to time. I don't think those heaters are a wise idea imo.

 

Ordinary kerosene heaters stink like a bus garage, and can fill your house with poison gasses.

The "salamanders" that are used on construction sites usually need an electrical connection, and even if they don't, see above.

Monitor heaters burn kerosene and are externally vented, but need electricity to operate.

- Eric

 

Paladin: I could probably use something like that. I already have natural gas piped to my home.

I saw this on EBay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Non-Electric...item58a79459cb

Although, I was thinking of something more portable, I could live with this.

Do you guys have more suggestions? I like the funny ones too!

 

Or a whole house Natural or LP gas fired generator with a transfer switch & run like the power never went out...but be prepared to spend some serious coin...IMHO

 

If you've got piped natural gas, you can easily install a vented natural gas space heater or, as stated above, a natural gas fired electrical generator.

- Eric

 

Paladin31: A whole house Natural Gas or LP gas fired system would be the ultimate. I'm not there yet. If power went out in the winter, I would like heat. If it went out in the summer, I would like power to my refrigerators and freezers.
A portable generator might fill the bill. Then all one has to do is determine the amount of watts needed. Yes/No?

 

[QUOTE=Jaybird;616457]Paladin31: A whole house Natural Gas or LP gas fired system would be the ultimate. I'm not there yet. If power went out in the winter, I would like heat. If it went out in the summer, I would like power to my refrigerators and freezers.
A portable generator might fill the bill. Then all one has to do is determine the amount of watts needed. Yes/No?[

Correct. LP portables are available too, Amazon carries one for $800 or so, I think its 7000 watts peak output

 

I just clicked on EBay. I had no idea that there were so many options.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...rator&_sacat=0

I guess one of these things would be better than a simple kerosene heater.

 

Kerosene units I have ran across have noted in their O & M manuals'...'not intended for long term or unsupervised use in confined spaces....' pretty much defines your home while your sleeping....something goes wrong, i.e. Carbon Monoxide emissions...you stay asleep...the wall heaters not only vent their combustion byproducts outdoors, but can also source their combustion air from outside the homes thermal envelope.

 

There are lots of ways to safely make heat in emergency situations. We have a set of gas logs. As others have stated there are other alternatives but all involve burning something indoors. Vented or not, invest in a nice CO2 monitor with battery backup!

 

Well maybe older is better and not that this is an option for you, my house has steam radiator heat, natural gas fired. The pilot light/power pile generates enough millivolts to operate the gas valve and thermostat. So no electric needed.

 

I'm sure you're keeping abreast of the issue, but there's a strong movement in the works to ban wood stoves across both our countries. Getting a permit to install one inside city limits has become tough already, and even a professionally installed air tight installed only for emergency purposes can jack your home owner's insurance several hundred dollars a year. For renters, condo owners and those poor blighters subject to HOAs ..that's not even a possibility.

 

Actually, no, in the places I travel - Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, New York, and New Jersey - I've never heard of such a thing.
Certainly, in Northern New England (NE, NH, and VT) such a thing would never be tolerated.



Permits? We don't need no stinkin' permits.

Actually, in town here, you do need a permit if you are going to install a new "solid fuel heating device," but since the houses are all 150 to 300 years old, they have them already, so it's not an issue.

Outside of town, there are no rules about it.

As for insurance, a few hundred a year isn't much to be able to keep your house warm.


If you choose to live in one of those gated communities, then you deserve what you get.
As for renters, most rentals I've seen around here have woodstoves.

- Eric

 

Where is it getting harder to install a wood stove? They are quite popular here in Texas along with those goofy metal fireplace boxes. Burning wood has been around since the invention of fire, I don't think it will be outlawed anytime soon.

 

http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/ordinances.html ... first google hit. I've been hearing this noise for the last 10 years as part of the carbon fiasco.

 

And we thought our government is over reaching their authority.

 

I'm gonna guess you're not up to date that many municipalities have banned rain capture systems.

 

Sorry, but there's no "there" there.

Bay Area Air Quality Management District
Bans during “Spare the Air Tonight” advisories. Proposed new requirements for new construction (only pellet stoves, gas stoves, and EPA-certified wood stoves can be sold). Labeling required for firewood, firelogs, and wood pellets sold."

Crazy Californians


Bernalillo County (Albuquerque), NM
Winter Advisory/No Burn Program from October through February restricting use of non-EPA certified fireplaces or stoves.

Crazy Californians


Denver, CO Exit EPA disclaimer
Mandatory bans on "red" advisory days during the annual high air pollution season, with some exceptions.

Practically the same as Crazy Californians, and restrictions only on pollution days


Lagrande, OR
Voluntary curtailment of wood stove use for heat based on daily advisories.

Crazy Oregonians


Puget Sound, WA
Air-quality burn bans temporarily restrict some or all indoor and outdoor burning, usually called when weather conditions are cold and still.

Crazy Washingtonians, and only on air pollution days


San Joaquin County, CA
Existing wood stoves must be replaced with an EPA certified wood stove when a home is sold. Only pellet stoves, gas stoves, and EPA-certified wood stoves can be sold. Wood-burning limited on days when air pollution approaches unhealthy levels. Limits on the number of wood stoves or fireplaces that can be installed in new residential units.

Crazy Californians


Santa Clara County and The City of Palo Alto, CA
Burn bans: Stage 1, use only certified stoves; Stage 2, use wood stove only if it's the primary heat source. Have banned the installation of new wood-burning stoves or fireplaces.

Crazy Californians


Yolo-Solano AQMD
has initiated "Don't Light Tonight" - a voluntary program to encourage residents not to use wood stoves and fireplaces when air pollution approaches unhealthy levels. The district also encourages cleaner burning techniques and switching to cleaner burning technology.

Crazy Californians


Colorado
The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment posts wood-burning advisories on its website. During red advisories, mandatory residential burning restrictions generally apply to everyone in the 7-county Denver-Boulder metro area below 7,000 feet. There are exceptions for those who use Colorado Phase III (Phase II EPA) Exit EPA disclaimer certified wood-burning stoves, state-approved pellet stoves, approved masonry heaters or those whose stoves or fireplaces are their primary source of heat.

Crazy Coloradans around Denver, and only on pollution days


Idaho
The state of Idaho offers taxpayers who buy new wood stoves, pellet stoves, or natural gas or propane heating units for their residences a tax deduction to replace old, uncertified wood stoves.

Tax credits for fancy new stoves - not a bad thing.


Michigan
Michigan's Model Ordinance for Outdoor and Open Burning (PDF) (21pp, 306K) - contains provisions and optional provisions that Michigan municipalities can "pick and choose" from

The "Model Ordinance" (which is not even a law) has things that towns can "pick and choose from"?
This is meaningless.

Montana
The state of Montana offers an Alternative Energy Systems Credit against income tax liability for the cost of purchasing and installing an energy system in a Montana resident’s principal home that uses " . . . a low emission wood or biomass combustion device such as a pellet or wood stove."

Tax credits for fancy new stoves - not a bad thing.


Utah
Utah has a “Red Light, Green Light” program to curtail wood-burning along the Wasatch Front during winter inversions. RED: No residential/commercial burning. The Division of Air Quality staff inspect the valleys for smoke coming from chimneys. The staff also investigate complaints made to the Division. Offenders are ticketed, and fines may be levied. First-time offenders face a fine of $25; second-time offenders pay $50 to $140; and third-time offenders face fines from $150 to $299. YELLOW: reduce burning; GREEN (clearing index high): burning allowed.

Only on pollution days, if you're making smoke that lays in the valleys.


Washington
The state of Washington has established wood stove emission performance standards that are more stringent than the federal rule. In addition, the state of Washington assesses a flat fee on the sale of every wood-burning device to fund the education of citizens about wood smoke health and air quality impacts and the benefits of cleaner burning wood stoves.

Tighter stove standards and a tax for "[re-]education."
Crazy West-coasters, again.


Wisconsin
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources' Model Ordinance - contains suggestions and options for local governments to regulate open burning at the local level.

This applies to open burning, not woodstoves.


Vermont
Vermont has compiled a state listing of regulatory action for hydronic heaters."

This is for hydronic heaters, not woodstoves.

So the flightier Western states have some regulations regarding emissions standards for sales or installations of new wood stoves, and for burning wood on days with bad pollution (which is a problem there because of overpopulation), and some other states give tax credits for newer stoves.

I fail to see a problem here, but, as I said, there is none of this BS in the East.
Canada is, of course, a different country, but I have heard that it is still a democracy, and so would suspect that Montrealers could have the utterly stupid law that you cited rescinded.

- Eric

 

What's a rain capture system?

- Eric

 

You'll understand, MD, that page was the result of 5 seconds of searching. If you'd like, I can do more serious research and get back to you on the subject, but the simple fact is .. the EPA is slapping regulations on wood burning stoves ... how much and in what detail varies greatly by the date and radicalism of the website providing the details. I chose to not include the pages that were obviously right wing, anti-EPA, survivalists, red necks and the like.

 

A rain barrel at the end of your downspout. Some people are using that water for things like watering gardens (on watering ban days), filling swimming pools, and setting aside water for emergency household use (cistern).

 

Very well, but it was the evidence you presented.



But that page was a compilation of local regulations, compiled by the EPA in one place, but not enacted nor enforced by the EPA.


Why not? They're clearly the most fun group, and I'll trust a crazy redneck more than a deadpan bureaucrat any day.


What's wrong with that? People have been doing it for millennia.
My house has (well, had, before "modifications") a large cistern underneath the main kitchen chimney - presumably one would pump water up to the kitchen directly above when needed.

And how would they be able to tell you had one?

- Eric

 

This is true. Unfortunately for me to go through the pages and pages to come up with more detail is beyond the scope of this discussion .. and I fear would be treading perilously close to a political discussion.

They've come up with myriad reasons for banning it .. from mosquito breeding grounds to needing that runoff water to keep the sewers functioning. Most people I've encountered online discussing it, tho, seem to believe it's because their water meter don't spin fast enough anymore .. while using the captured water for house hold use still generates waste water that must be processed.

How could they tell? While I presume (from reading your posts) you're in a more rural setting, the more suburban of us are frequently subject to periodic (and undocumented) spot checks thanks to municipal easements and regulations. Electric and phone company employees have the right at all times to trespass .. and they've got eyes. A municipal inspector can follow one of them anywhere, and anything they see is fair game. I know personally one person who had the city on his back for doing renovations without a building permit based on nothing more than him having a pickup parked in front of his house with a load of 2x4s in it.

 

Very well. You did bring it up, though.


Wow. Thank Heaven we still live in a (barely) functioning democracy here.

And people wonder why folks are "anti-gubermint."

- Eric

 

I will tell you this, If my power went out and if I had a wood burning stove or fireplace, I would certainly use it.

Here's an interesting side story... A guy in Amherstburg, ON (the next town over) was taken to court by his neighbor because of his wood burning stove. He lost and had to paid the aggrieved neighbor damages and agree not to burn wood again. That is in a town with no bylaw outlawing wood burning stoves. Apparently the neighbor had asthma and was bothered by the smoke.

 

I'd have built a taller chimney when they started to complain - he probably said "Screw you!" and one thing led to another.

- Eric

 

Isn't it nice to know that we have such conscientious lawmakers out there to protect us from ourselves. My head hurts.......

 

See, now we're getting to that perilously close point I worried about....