When I was in school, the teachers always pushed for college education. Who can afford it??? Where is the logic in wracking up 40-50k (conservative estimates) for a 40-50k a year job?! I have a brother in law who is brilliant with computers, has multiple degrees, highly educated, but unfortunately it was cheaper for the multiple companies to hire him as a intern than hire him full time with the normal pay and benefits. It took him YEARS before he was full time employee.

 

Different BOL, has a degree, lots of experience, and the talent in some kind of graphic design ( I don’t have the vocabulary to understand exactly what he does) but same thing, the market is over-saturated with candidates.

 

And the flip side, not everyone is college material. Absolutely nothing wrong with manual labor. If your not college material, learn a trade.

 

There is a difference between "manual labor" and "skilled labor". A "trade" is skilled labor and has always been a good investment....."earn while you learn". There are many very smart people who are "tradesmen" and earn a good living. A college degree is no guarantee for a comfortable living. A lot depends on the field of study and the labor market.
The chart was cute to read, but it lacks data sources. Going to college 50 years ago was difficult, as it is today.......on minimum wage. It always took help from parents and scholarships. I worked in a skilled trade to put my daughter through a state university for "micro-biology" and three sons through "trade school" for machinist/tool&die. Would you care to guess which three make the most money ?

 

I went to school also, sleep on a couch in a one bedroom apartment with 3 roommates to keep costs down. I’m not suggesting college or any other training is a waste. It’s frustrating no matter what decade it is

my #1 stepdaughter is questioning her career path. She is frustrated because some of the classes she has taken won’t transfer to her new major. Some of the classes her seem to have little to do with her field of study. Keep in mind, she graduated high school 3rd in her class, and got lots of scholarships.

Stepdaughter #2 is a junior in high school, carries a 4.38 gpa (4 point scale) has taken mostly college courses or advanced placement classes, all in anticipation of going to a certain well known fairly local university. She went to for a college visit a few weeks ago, found out the high school classes she has been taking (that would have counted to her degree) now no longer will be eligible for transfer. Seems like in both cases, it’s all about making the school more money. She is now reconsidering previous offers from other out of state schools.


Both of these girls work their *** off for the grades the get, are active in band, and lots of other school functions. I look at the crap they deal with today and wonder how I would have handled things 30 years ago.

 

It sucks that my 2 girls had to borrow upwards of 100 grand each to go to school and get masters degrees in teaching only to start out around 40,000.I am very proud of their accomplishments only wish i could help out more financially.I went to work straight out of high school and have clawed my way to make a decent living with a wrecked back to prove it.I think i had way less mental stress and pressure that they had though.

 

While a college degree for some curriculum is a very good idea and lead to very good careers. There are too many obscure and meaningless degrees that lead nowhere, my advice is to choose wisely. The bad trend I've seen over the past 50 years, more and more trade and tech schools disappeared, High Schools ended their shop programs, so kids without degrees were on their own to find a direction for their future. Corporations came up with goofy HR departments and stocked them with idiots that use analytical programs to read resumes and wouldn't know a good potential employee if they fell on them. Kids today are at a disadvantage with the cards stacked against them from the start. They can't walk into a company, sit down face to face with the person they are going to work for and say "what I lack in experience I gain in ambition" and have the opportunity to prove it.

 

Wow, you just described my company's HR department - I mean DIVISION (yes, a division with with multiple VPs, directors, managers, etc) - to a T.

 

I believe in a good union for representation of the working folks. Trade schools with Men and Women that have to work their way to Journeymen appreciate the struggle to accomplishment .

 

A case in point. The principal of the local high school (1966) told my brother he would never make it because he was too dumb to go to college so he should join the Army or something. He apprenticed with a jeweler for a few years, opened up his own strore and now makes six figures with a three in front. My son did the same thing and has his own business too.

 

When my HS called my parents in 1974, my junior year, and asked them to keep me home because I was no longer allowed back (long story), the school stated on my way out, that I would never amount to anything and would probably wind up dead or in jail. With the help of the principal and vice principle, I was able to get into our local vocational HS. Although I had to stay back a year I finished a 3 year program in 2 years for electronics and electrical trades. I put that education to good use and managed to create a good life for my family, put my son through college with a masters degree (his choice and he is debt free). My wife and I are also debt free and I retired at 54.

 

Hmmm...My wife is VP of HR at her global company of 220 employees. Managing a small staff of 4 other HR professionals...just recently grew to 4. She leaves at 6:20 in the morning and gets home between 6:30 and 7:00 at night. Damned near every day. She uses the tools of her profession much like a plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic uses theirs.

After phone screens she, the hiring manager and two other managers interview candidates in person. A marathon process for the candidate. All in a very competitive 3.5% unemployment environment. These candidates are PHDs, Scientists, Marketing & IT professionals, support staff and warehouse workers. All treated with the same level of respect. When an acceptable candidate is selected, she is the key negotiator regarding the offering. Besides the US, she supports people in the UK, Saudi, Ghana and other global locations. You can't imagine the arrogant idiots she runs across.

The culture of her company does not insist on a degree except where specifically required.

She never completed more than two years of college because she returned home when her parents passed to care and nurture her older, downs syndrome sister...who lived with us for 30 years. (Oh, yeah. She had to be Mom to our two daughters, and myowndamnedself along the way)

She succeeded because she cares and is damned smart in the use of the tools of her trade.

Though she is paid very well, she does all of this knowing that she is paid 20% - 30% less than her male counter parts...across all industries. Which is a whole 'nuther topic.

 

I "heard" the "you'll never go very far in life without a college education" speel many years ago. Without a doubt, I made less than the starting salary for a teacher, to begin with. As I aged, gained skills and experience, I surpassed teacher salaries. I had friends and acquaintances with similar experiences in different fields. Skilled tradesmen/technicians were looked down on as "not bright enough to get a college education". While teachers are essential and valuable, some things we were told weren't completely accurate.
To quote a person from the past......George Meany said, "What this country needs is more plumbers and less lawyers". The world has become more technical and the skills/experience pay bigger dividends. People who start/run a business also have talents that are not found in a book.
.....Just my two cents worth.

 

I have a BS in Civil Engineering and I'm a licensed professional engineer. I spend 23 years working as a salaried foreman and and superintendent for bridge construction companies. I loved working outside with my hands. My only regret is that I didn't work hourly during that period of time. I was smart enough to save an adequate amount in a 401K for retirement but the hours I worked were well in excess of most of the hourly employees that worked for me who made substantially more money than I did.

What I don't regret is getting the degree. I don't think a lot of people realize that working in the trades takes it toll on your body and many people can't effectively work past the age of 50. After 23 years my back was shot and it was damn cold working outside every winter. I was fortunate that I was able to "fall back" on my degree for about the same $$$ as I was making busting my *** outside. I've spent the last 12 years working comfortably inside at a desk. I still work 50 hours a week but never nights or weekends. I attend every one of my kid's school functions and coach them for their sports and robotics teams.

I can't find graduating engineers to hire anymore that are worth a crap. Colleges have dumbed down the curriculum so much that what used to be taught in 4 years now requires a masters degree. It's all about the money for them.

 

There certainly are pros and cons both ways. And successes both ways.

My oldest daughter, daily, fulfils her life long dream of being a teacher and has been highly recognized for her efforts. Her kids are 14, 11 and 3.The oldest are entrenched in soccer. Both school and select. Her and my S-I-L don't sit around much. He does not have a degree and is doing very well in sales.

My youngest daughter is a Project Manager in a $1.3 Billion family owned company. No student debt and bought her 1st home at the age of 25. She has been at this company for one year and moving along quite nicely. She has more $$$ in the bank...outside of 401...than most 50 year olds. She turns 28 this month. Her degree has nothing to do with her career.

I barely graduated high school in 1971. I didn't struggle with grades. I struggled with showing up. School was very boring for me. Thanks to the right mentors, at the right time, I succeeded in three unrelated careers and have owned my own small manufacturing company for 11 years.

My youngest daughter's boyfriend is an attorney...driven to growth...but, is buried in $200,000 of student loan debt. A number of local legal firms are starting to take notice of him and making offers. So, I am certain he will be fine but, it will still takes years to shed-rid of that burden.

With the growing cost of higher education, there is much to say about the roll of trade schools and / or other forms of career specific education.

 

Does your wife sleep ok at night being a VP of HR? I find Human Resources people to be the most soulless, useless, drains on the morale and bottom line of an organization that there could be. No offense to your lady, I am sure she is one of the exceptions, but they seem to focus on diversity instead of merit.

 

Matt, it wasn't so much that the minimum wage didn't keep pace with college costs as it was the advent of easy loans that allowed costs to increase so dramatically.

Compare the cost of housing in countries where mortgages are unavailable with neighboring countries having mortgages. There can be a factor of 4 difference.

College costs show a similar pattern.

I likely would not be able to put myself through college today, but in that situation I would definitely choose a trade school. I very much enjoy the mechanical aspects of my hobbies and could have a career doing similar things.

 

While I wholeheartedly agree that the rising cost of education is insane and completely ridiculous, a free education can still be had. Ivy league schools offer free tuition if the household income is less than 100k. My daughter just graduated this past June with a bill of $3400 for the four years. I had to have my wage cut in half for a short time to stay below the 100k threshold and recieved other compensation in place. I guess I paid for it but I didn't...definitely much less than full price.

 

Living in dorms costs money. The cost of everything has gone up....electricity, heat, upkeep of facilities, professor salary, books, lab fees, parking fees etc. Keep in mind that "low interest college loans" are NOT free loans. The balance keeps going up as long as you aren't paying anything. Those astronomical college loans didn't just happen,they were accumulating the minute the loan papers were signed.

 

wow.

"No offense to your lady..." After statements like"Does your wife sleep ok at night being a VP of HR?"I don't know you wouldn't mean to offend.

Through her association with other HR professionals I have known many. None that I would classify as soulless, useless or drain on morale / bottom line of a business.

HR professionals do not make company policy. Boards, CEOs & CFOs do. Not to mention Legal. HR administrates those policies. Typically, they strive to enhance whatever the culture of a company is but, again, corporate culture is driven by boards, CEOS & CFOs. Hiring Manager make Hire & Termination decisions. HR helps facilitate those actions. So, to throw them all in the same turd sack, call then soulless & useless is, well...clueless and ignorant.

I have known engineers, electrical. mechanical or otherwise, that couldn't muster up the personality of a Zombie and were mindless as a **** ant but, I don't classify all of them as being Zombies. I have (2) engineers that work for me and they are part of my bonus family.

While I have no fondness of unions, I don't throw members, BAs or union management all in a turd sack and toss them all under the bus. I certainly don't consider them soulless. My Step-Dad was a Union Steward in his shop. When he needed the Union most, they turned their collective backs on him. My own experience with Unions, in my early adulthood is indelible and not in a good way. But, I damned sure do not crucify the whole of them.

I understand you must have had horrible issues with HR. Can't help that. But, maybe it never was so much about them as it was the company. Or even the person that was injured by "Them".

So yeah, I do take your comments as being offensive to my wife. Hard to take it any other way.

So, we move on from it...or you can take your 4,500 posts and have me moderated out of here. Doesn't much matter to me either way.

.

 

This comment is so full of ****, I don't know where to begin. If you can't find graduating engineers who are "worth a crap," you're not looking in the right places. I have been a professor of chemical engineering at two universities since 1989, and I'm still at it. The curriculum has most certainly NOT been dumbed down in that time. What we teach has remained fairly constant over the years and decades, and during all that time and before, engineering programs have been required to be accredited by ABET, the Accrediting Board for Engineering and Technology. We as engineering departments have no say in the tuition charged or any other monetary aspect our programs, so it is not "all about the money."

My suggestion to you is to stick to commenting on things that you actually know something about.

 

Since we're insulting, I might say the same to you as I assume you work at a university and not in private practice.

I'm a structural engineer by degree. I've interviewed at least 10 "structural engineering" seniors in the last 10 years. When I specifically asked therm what courses they've taken, none have taken the courses I took when I was in my last two semesters. When I ask them if they taken "Indeterminate Structures" or Composite Structural Design", as well as a few more, they all have told me that's graduate level curriculum.

Maybe UConn was just a lot more specialized in 1985, I took at least one course from every Civil Engineering discipline my sophomore and junior years. My senior year classes were primarily structural design. I don't really know know why the kids I've interviewed don't take those classes unless they get a masters, but they do. The undergraduate coursework now is a lot more generalized.

The point is, I struggle to find good engineers. I think a lot has to do with the fact that we are based in a very rural area and the best candidates are those that are originally from here and want to remain here. Being NY, there isn't a lot to keep the good kids here. Most kids move away to more enticing locals....

 

I don't believe in calling moderators on people, and, around here, other than the occasional friendly trash talking, the post count doesn't matter. I specifically included the sentence to avoid causing offense, which you took anyway, even thought it was not my intent to cause any.

I'm cool with it, as you hit back just fine, and you DID mean to cause offense. This thread will probably get closed here soon, so there's no point in continuing.

 

You guys are killing me. We all have had great jobs and sometimes they suck some days, and other days are great days. You're at WORK for Cripes Sake!! College degree or not, if you're not the one signing the front of the paychecks, then you're obligated to "The Man." And his HR department. The HR department where you work is made up of people that work for a living, too. It's how the HR unit is staffed that makes the difference. I've seen good ones and bad ones over my working career. And that goes for all splinters of corporate ladders. I don't lump any profession together. Some people suck and some don't.

Sometimes getting a good career is part luck (being in the right place at the right time), part timing (they are short quite a few people increasing your chances- maybe had a slew of retirees at the same time), and part understanding what you want to do as a career and making the choices that get you there. I could never work on cars for a living because I find it fun to work on my own. But working on other people's cars I think would make it not fun anymore. I mean, if you worked as a house painter, you probably wouldn't want to paint your own house when you get home from work. Or on your days off. I dunno. Maybe some people would enjoy it. I know I wouldn't.

I had no idea what I was going to do out of high school. All I did know is that working as the bottom rung of the ladder wasn't what I was going to want to do forever. I joined the Navy and went through their Nuclear Power Program. And then volunteered for Submarine Force. That's some tough work, and you have to not only KNOW your stuff, you had to put it to practice as well. But that experience helped get me what I consider a pie job right out of the Navy and ended up as an operator at two different nuclear power plants in Florida. No degree needed and a fat paycheck. And doing work what was actually less than what I was used to for more money. The issue for me was the industry was full of ex-Navy Nukes and I never felt like I left the Navy, TBH. Eventually, went to work as an operator at a worldwide major-brand bio-tech drug company, which seemed to only value people with degrees for advancement purposes, so that's what I did. I used their tuition reimbursement program to get my degree in business. I could obviously only go to school part time, so it took a while, but I did get a degree finally. And it only cost me books/materials. And it paid off. I was promoted into supervision and started working my way up from there. I really loved that work but also became fully aware that management had the same type of issues as "regular Joe" workers, just different details. And much more backstabbing. Nature of the beast, though. Management in a huge corporate setting isn't always a bed of roses.

It's just another "Cool story bro" situation though. Because it's NOT about what you do for a living. Or how much $$ you haul in. It's about what you do with it.

My wife and I worked our butts off and felt blessed to get paid as much as we did for what we did. Everyone can use more money, but we saved a percentage like clockwork every payday in our 401ks. Thus, we were in a position to comfortably retire. I just didn't realize how comfortable. She retired at 58 and I retired at 57. Probably could have retired sooner, but we didn't. After adding it all up, and investing right, we're actually bringing home as much money now as we did when we were working with pensions and dividends alone, and still having money left over every month on top of that for reinvesting. Not touching the principal on our 401ks and IRAs. And that's obviously not counting the upcoming SS that may or may not be there. And retirement doesn't cost as much to maintain as having a job so I spend a lot less. I'm still working, but I just changed management (my wife).

Money management is the key factor in any situation. The old adage of "Save early, save often" always applies. Don't cut yourself completely to the bone, but make a plan for saving money. Every little bit helps. And then when you're ready, it won't matter if you have a degree or not.

 

I can relate to allyolds68 last observation regarding finding and retaining engineering talent in NY. We're in a similar living environment, only about 40 miles East of him. The pool we can draw from seems to be largely limited to our own state, excluding the New York City area, and a few neighboring states like PA, MA, CT. The primary reason people are here is because they have close by family. If we hire anyone from the South or the West coast, they return back within a year.

More aligned with the original post, minimum wage is essentially $15/hour in NY with some exceptions. Whether that's good or bad is a debate I can't offer an opinion on.

 

1) of course you're going to struggle to get good talent to go live in the middle of nowhere. Shouldn't be surprising. The good ones have options - you need to beat out all of their other options. I worked at a small company in a small town in a highly specialized field. It's just a fact of life trying to pull talent to undesirable places. Now being in SoCal at a much larger company, we attract talent from MIT, CalTech, Purdue, etc.

2) Good engineering programs are ABET accredited. They have to offer certain curriculum. You can see what the curriculum is with a simple internet search. Looking at UConn's website, there are no courses at all with the names you listed in the Civil Engineering department. Meaning that material, if necessary, was likely incorporated into other courses. You can take composite material analysis if you specialize in aerospace in the mechanical engineering department. So yeah...they haven't taken those courses...

 

You are exactly right. I'm 40, not married, and am set financially. It is much harder to want to work when you don't have to. I would "win" by "losing" at my job and being fired. I think I put in #2 in overtime in assembly engineering at the plant last year, and I'd much rather have less money and less overtime. I max my 401k every year, have one hell of a stock portfolio, yet my newest car is 13 years old because it still works fine.

To a previous point of yours, the issue I have with HR is when they compromise their integrity for a paycheck. When a less qualified woman is promoted over a more qualified man, the integrity of those who made that promotion happen is compromised. I don't care if she got porked in a stairway by the CEO one evening, or if she just smiled at everyone, or if it just another part of a self-sacrificing martyrdom to give all women everything after we supposedly oppressed them for so long, when someone who is less qualified gets a position over someone who is more qualified because that first person has some demographic advantage over the second person it is nothing but hi-test, grade A bullshit. I'm an engineer; we're allergic to that because being All Talk and No **** gets people killed. HR, and I include Comp, Legal, or whatever other department any HR sycophant tries to shift the blame to when you call them out is nothing but a drain on a company forcing them into PC BS to hire/promote the wrong people due to leftism (feminism, AA, LGBTQQIIAAPB, non-Christian religions, etc) instead of merit.

 

It's all in your perspective. I bought my wife a new Cadillac when she retired. And then I JUST bought her another one because, well, we can. And I'm either going to end up with a new 2020 GMC Denali truck or a Challenger widebody Hellcat Redeye. Haven't decided yet. Why? Because we can. We're pretty flush with income and it's kind of incredible. I could probably minimize our risk more than I have, but then again, without any risk, you'll get no reward.

No matter your income, the best bet is to spend less than you take in. Very simple math. Pay yourself first as far as savings/investments, put some away for emergencies, and enjoy the rest. Also, get a reward card that PAYS you cash or bill credit or whatever. Pay it off every month, and use that beeyotch for everything. I've got a card that pays back 1.5% on bill credit and I wear that thing out, then pay it off every month. It's like getting a 1.5% discount on everything I buy. I'm spending the money anyway, might as well make a few bucks in return. It's unbelievable how much in credit cashback you can rack up. But you have to be vigilant. The credit card companies are betting on that you won't be.

 

Just my 2 cents, The colleges are doing a great disservice to student because students can borrow so much student debt. The colleges survive and continue while the students suffer with tremendous debt

 

One thing you said struck me. I share pretty much the same story as you, got expelled in my Sen year,,,,,,,,short story. My middle school principal who later became my high school principle was a tough old jar head but took a liking to me. He found out I was interested in going to an after school vocational program a few towns away but I had nobody to get me there. He gave me a ride there 3 days a week after school and if it wasn't for him, I"m not sure where I would have ended up. I can pretty much say his interest in me shaped my life and have had great success in my field and it all started then.

 

The Vocational HS principal, vice principal, and electronics shop teacher all helped to shape my future life. They got me through the crossroad that put me on the path to success, without their help and support the above prophecy probably would have come true. My repayment of that debt was to mentor a few kids that were just like my younger self.

States need to set up more Vocational HS systems and invest in our young people who have no desire and/or need to go to college. Corporate and private sector funding should be sought as it would benefit them as well. These kids need direction and a chance to become successful.

 

Eric, you probably took that statement as a challenge. I know I would have.

When the "authorities," be they educators or doctors, play God and tell me what will happen in my life, it's my greatest motivator just to prove them wrong

Congratulations on thinking for yourself, being successful, and helping others do the same.

Gary

 

I have watched the over-selling college and elimination of "vocational training schools" for years. Those who have been guided into "skilled trades" are doing well, generally. There is a shortage of people entering the skilled trades and its noticeable. Unions in my area have begun to recruit high school seniors for apprenticeships.
Not everyone will get or benefit from a college degree, anymore than everyone doing well in the skilled trades. We need both types of people and that still hasn't been recognized at higher levels. Local school districts can and should develop programs or alliances to provide the training for our future generations.

 

There have been some very good points made, and some great success stories. I kinda wish schools didn’t insist on new students declaring a major as soon as you enroll. Have an idea of what you want to do is one thing, but who really knows for sure what you want to go in life at 18-20 years old? How many people in readerland are employed in their field of study? Just curious

 

Not I. I went to college as a Business major with plans to be a CPA. I ended up working in an ordinance factory, then taking mechanical/machinist vocational classes that led me to a life as machinist, toolmaker, millwright and retiree.

 

I'm going to be 62 and definitely not a grown up, I still can't tell you what I want to do when I grow up. However based on experience, I can definitely tell you what I don't want to do. So many people start out in a specific direction in life. But as they come to opportunity crossroads things change and in the end the education they started with plays a minimal part in later career paths.

 

I'm not a big reader but I just finished a book called "Cash Flow Quadrant" by Robert T. Kiyosaki. Made me trash the advice I had been giving my kids for 26 years which was go to college and get a shingle to hang on the wall. Son works for Toyota and daughter works for Enerfab (they fab large stuff like bridges). Thing is, going to college to get a degree in order to work for someone else might not be the best advice out there. Kinda like what Mike Rowe has said on the record about college I couldn't agree with more today. We spend money we don't have, on classes we can't afford, for jobs that won't be there when we graduate. College just may be overrated. It surely is overpriced.

 

As a HS teacher, I flat out tell my students every year that not all of them can and should go to College (much to the chagrin of parents/admins), but that they should all go to "college." Why the distinction? Where the education occurs. They don't all need to go to 13th grade, but they should ALL continue their education, even if it means moving down to the FL Keys and working a dive boat for a few years.

No student should go to a $50/100k/yr school for a job that won't pay that back; I shake my head at people who go to private schools for public jobs (like mine). I graduated 10 years ago and paid $8k/year tuition to do it, then paid my masters out of pocket. I don't begrudge the cost of tuition, it takes money to keep the lights on, pay for QUALIFIED staff, and buy the already-obsolete technology jammed down everyone's throat. Our new school budget purchased a Chromebook for all ~3k students in the district, for example.

My mantra: go to College/University if you're pursuing a CAREER requiring it, but not if you don't know what you're doing or looking to bounce between JOBS; take that $100k education investment, invest in Tesla or land, and start out ahead. If going into a trade, perhaps even pursue night school, as simple math, history and science are topics which every person of every path can embrace. I know full well that many of my students will earn more than me, and that's fine. I put together and run a field research program in the Caribbean for a week for a dozen students who are interested in marine biology/geology with great success; several students have told me that they've completed changed, or realized, their life's pursuits after the first-hand in situ experience. Sometimes the job isn't about the money, but about the intangible benefits. I have a concurrent second career requiring ony a HS diploma (to start; I've advanced there due to training, licenses, and experience as well) working 1 day a week that pays better on a day-to-day basis than my full-time career.

"I don't care if you're aspire to shovel **** for a living as long as you strive to be the best damn **** shoveler there is."

 

I must agree. There is nothing wrong with skilled labor. I have had folks look down their nose at me for years. I could care less to be quite honest.
I enjoy my work after working behind the the same old walls year after year, the freedom of being self employed cannot be beat. But YOU MUST plan as you go.
None of us are getting any younger and if you work for the man with the plan, good for you. If you work for yourself, you have to be the man with a plan
if you are going to able to retire comfortably... or not.

 

My story. I'm 30 it's long but it's mine. I was always an average D student. I tested well but did nothing else. Unless it had a cash prize. ( I won 2 national writing contest) impressed my teachers and went back to being a D student lol. Starting high school I was excited for shop classes. I took as many as I could. By sophmore year I was in the advanced shop classes and helping the teachers. But my regular classes where horrible. I wanted to take the autobody votech program at the local college but my GPA was dangerously low to where I could not afford to miss half a day for a non credited class . I was crushed ., But ! The teachers knew my reality. They bent the rules made my votech classes be eligible for college credits and boost my GPA since the program was at the local college . By senior year I was still doing horrible in classes but had top honors in my shop classes and auto body program. By this point I was already working in a body shop on weekends and mechanic helper for a mobile semi truck mechanic. I was given a serious opportunity by my school. I got to learn to work with my hands and knew there was money in that. Shop classes are dying. I'm 30 I bought my house at 22 and honestly don't know how life would have played out had I not had those events happen which was partly fate and teachers being honest and helping me find a way to succeed. There is so many variables too. Lots of my friends and I bought houses in our early 20's due to the crappy economy. But most people our age where in college racking debt up while we worked our trades and payed our dues as we learned . That's not to say college is bad but I made some risky moves to have an easy future. I bought my house knowing I would be house poor for a bit but the low MTG. Payment would pay off in spades once I really started making more money. It took about 3 years for that to happen but I never missed payments on anything. My brother is 20. He works hard but has no discipline. He likes to party while I like cars. If you want cars you are gonna have to be money savvy. It's as much our culture as it is personal choices. I love my job , love what I do it's allowed me to do alot. Now that I'm 30 the thought of perhaps college is something I would like. I would love to take classes in business to add to my hands on experience in my trade.