ROCKET VAPOR

The 41 year old bushings are not very soft, kinda like rubber on a 41 year old tire.

No way will they crush enough to allow the sway bar collar to set against/ flush with the frame.

I guess the question is.... did GM ever intend for the sway bar bushing collar to set flat against the frame???

Judging from the supplied information, it is looking like GM did not intend for the collar bracket to touch the frame???

RAMBOW

Geeze- You guys are really killing me. There is way too much thinking going on for something as simple as sway bar bushings.

The posted original engineering drawings SHOW those currently available bushing designs are the same as original. Hell even the NOS buishings look to be pretty much the same overall size as the "modern" ones.

Just install them and torqe them down(10ft lbs i beleive, not much torqe really), THEY WILL CRUSH.
The only real concern should be if they are for the right dimention swaybar.

I'm all for questioning things when they look off- especially when they are made offshore- there are obvious quality differences int he pics posted above...

but when presented with the drawings and a photo of NOS bushings... or just lack of other options... Just bolt it on and see if it works. You would quickly see that it will.

I think i spent about 15 mins contemplating mine before bolting on.

BTW... if you look really close at the "crushed" bushing posted above... look carefully at the bottom of the bushing and you will see the beveled lower edges that the brand new bushings have. Its the same, it has just spent time crushed into shape.

Allan R

Have you installed these, or are they pending?

Can you measure the height and width of the bushing? Since your original brackets can't be used as a comparison (the repros are probably the right size, but....), I'd like to make a direct comparison from GM to Moog. And BTW, I think you're right, GM would not put a part in that would slow down the assembly line on purpose.

Lady72nRob71

But I am an n-juneer!!

I will look at my old one when I get home. I bet the Moog ones (which are softer) will crush. Those hard poly ones I got (mevotek & raybestos) probably won't.

ROCKET VAPOR

Allen, I have not installed these yet, as I am also going thru the front suspension.

I will measure width and height of the bushings and post back some time this weekend.

Could it be possible.?.?.? that GM designed these bushings with extra material due too the sway (stab) bar wearing away the softer material (rubber bushing) over time???

Allan R

Engineers.... lets' see now
Two engineering students meet on campus one day. The first engineer calls out to the other, "Hey, nice bike! Where did you get it?" "Well'" replies the other, "I was walking to class the other day when this pretty, young co-ed rides up on this bike. She jumps off, takes off all her clothes and says, "You can have ANYTHING you want." "Good choice," says the first, "Her clothes wouldn't have fit you anyway!"

Five surgeons were taking a coffee break and were discussing their work. The first said, "I think accountants are the easiest to operate on. You open them up and everything inside is numbered."
The second said, "I think librarians are the easiest to operate on. You open them up and everything inside is in alphabetical order."
The third said, "I like to operate on electricians. You open them up and everything inside is color-coded."
The fourth one said, "I like to operate on lawyers. They're heartless, spineless, gutless, and their heads and their butts are interchangeable."
Fifth surgeon said, "I like Engineers...they always understand when you have a few parts left over at the end..."

There are four engineers traveling in a car; a mechanical engineer, a chemical, an electrical engineer and a computer engineer.The car breaks down."Sounds to me as if the pistons have seized. We'll have to strip down the engine before we can get the car working again", says the mechanical engineer. "Well", says the chemical engineer, "it sounded to me as if the fuel might be contaminated. I think we should clear out the fuel system. "I thought it might be an grounding problem", says the electrical engineer, "or maybe a faulty plug lead." They all turn to the computer engineer who has said nothing and say: "Well, what do you think?" "Ummm - how about if we all get out of the car and get back in again?"

Allan R

Possibly. Better than any explanation I've heard to date. From what I can see, the ease of replacing them would suggest this. The bushings I took out were original and had the 4 strips you have on your OEM ones. But the hole for the stab bar was at 1 1/4" and ovaled from wear. They didn't even come close to holding the sway bar. This would explain some of the front end yaw I was getting on corners. Also my stab link bushings were toast.

On the GM Assembly manual (which shows the same for 72) why does the stab link kit get installed with the bolt head at the bottom of the control arm? That's just not efficient when it comes time to work on anything.

BlackGold

Because the entire chassis was upside-down when they assembled it on the line. Alignment shims were installed upside-down, too.

You guys, the brackets for the stabilizer bar MUST sit flush on the frame. Bolts have no shear strength unless clamped rigid. The bushing squishes axially, in the same direction as the stabilizer bar. It sort of squeezes out the sides like the custard filling in your donut. If the rubber in your bushings is too hard to do this (without stripping the bolt threads), then I guess it might be appropriate to trim the bushing. For what it's worth, the polyurethane bushings I bought (from HO Specialties, I think?) years ago came with new brackets, properly sized for the hard bushings.

Allan R

Okey dokey. So when I put the replacements in it doesn't matter if I put the stab link bolt facing down and torque up the nut from below the control arm. I'll let the alignment shop deal with the shims..

You realize that you're giveing me the incentive to go buy a bunch of cream filled to practice on!!! What you say makes perfect sense. That's probably why the bracket has those little ears on the front and back to keep the bushing from oozing too far out.

Lady72nRob71

Oh, my......................

I looked at mine and they had the 5 lines at the corner and 4 lines at the bottom. This was for the .97" bar though.
Lots of material had mushed out the side, so looks like the originals were mashed a lot.

So to work on your chassis correctly and efficiently, it needs to be upside down - easy!

MMMMmmmmmmm....... Donuts.......................................
When I popped a disc in my back, the doctor used the same analogy. He said I squashed my donut and the cream oozed out against a main nerve.

I will soon find out if those new moogies compress with 35lbs...

ROCKET VAPOR

Don't get any bright ideas, but below is a photo of MOOG lower control arm brushings I bought from Rock Auto for about $15.00 with "Harris" markings.

HARRISBUSHINGS004.jpg
HARRISBUSHINGS002.jpg
HARRISBUSHINGS003.jpg

Then the cost on eBay for two round and two oval lower control arm bushings with "Harris" markings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...84.m1423.l2649


Allan, here is the dimensions you requested for the GM sway (stab) bar bushings that I have.
Heigth 2.40"
Width 1.40"
Thickness 1.40"

Lady72nRob71

My moogies all had the Harris Silentbloc markings, as did some ones I put on my Ford years ago.

ROCKET VAPOR

Rob, did you see what the set on eBay went for

O's_Car

Hey all, for what it's worth, I just installed a set of Moog K5241 bushings for my original 15/16" sway bar today. Used a new pair of brackets from Fusick (part #SBB642) and new 5/16" bolts. The bushings looked "oversize" just like the earlier pictures, and when I fit them over the sway bar they looked like the bore was too small: the slit was gapped fairly wide. But as I tightened the bracket bolts into the frame the bushings compressed easily, all the way until the bracket flanges contacted the frame. The bolts then torqued to 30 lb-ft with no problem. I didn't trim the bushings at all, the gap at the slit closed up, and the bushings squished out a bit sideways.

Now the Moog K8266 end links are something else. They look to be taller than the originals as the upper ends are extremely close to the upper ball joints. Looks like they'd hit on a big bounce. But maybe that's a subject for a separate thread...

Lady72nRob71

Nice to hear about a successful installation!

I heard about the front links being longer in a thread a while back. I ordered the 8266s and compared them with my originals and they were the same length. I better check em again in case I was dreaming.......

O's_Car

I found that other thread about the end links, same thing as mine. I ended up keeping the new end links: doing some experimenting with lifting/lowering the car, it appears the links will stay clear of the ball joints.

BlackGold

As the others just mentioned, with today's aftermarket replacement parts you have to watch out for interference. Which ever way you can assemble it without interference sounds good to me.

I'm glad you guys appreciated my donut analogy. I try to relate everything to donuts. Like, I'd love to take the GF to the theater, but for the same money I could eat 30 donuts .....

Lady72nRob71

Mmmmmmm - donuts.......................
Take control arm bushings... They are round with a hole in the center.
Sway bar bushings, too. Not quite round on the outside, but neither are the donuts that get squashed in the box.
Ever planted Cheerios? They are donut seeds...
And remember - a donut without a hole is just a danish.

Allan R

Ok, your OEM's are identical to the Moogs I have. Guess the production dept got it right after all and we're just spinning out wheels debating whether to install them? Sounds like a consulting job with a lot of unnecessary overkill....


That is a great followup report. How much has it helped your car's handling?

Allan R

Ha! Good one. Swear to God this is true: when my son was 4 we had just moved into our new house. My neighbor down the street convinced my boy to take a handful of beer caps and plant them in the clay where the sidewalk was being poured. He told Graeme that it would grow beer for me. What a great little trooper - I found them when I was prepping the frames and tying the rebar...unfortunately they hadn't sprouted and weren't cold either

O's_Car

I don't have an answer to that yet, the car is still a work in progress...

Allan R

No sweat, I know exactly what you mean. I'm in the same boat right now. No steering or front suspension in my car. Rebuild in progress

Lady72nRob71

Here goes the bushing installation!

Looking at the frame, I am realizing the reasoning behind super-compressing an oversized bushing. There are indentions in the frame that the bushing will fill into when compressed. This will prevent the bushing's top from oozing out to the side over time and sway bar movement.
Here is the bushing uncompressed:


And here it is compressed with bolts torqued to 30lbs.
HOWEVER, this is not the answer to the poll! See below for the answer!!

frankr442

I work in a GM parts department and have sold many bracket /bushing sets over the years and most look like that first pic. (And many customers question them at first). I use a jack to compress the bushing as I'm bolting it up. Reduces the chance of stripping threads.

Allan R

Oooozz, aahhhhh! I guess all that discussion earlier was really moot. It works!

What a great tip! With a dolly jack there's not a whole lot of room to work with for the bolts though???

frankr442

I use a small bottle jack. Plenty of room. Not trying to pick up the car. I'm always trying to find the painless way out. I'm a lazy bastard.

ROCKET VAPOR

The first set of these "Harris" marked lower control arm bushing went for $104.50 on eBay.

Now a second set of these "Harris" marked lower control arm bushing went for $408.07 on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/64-72...item1e675ded96

I hope no one around here is buying these bushing for this price. Onced these supper rare bushings are pressed into the lower control arm, and the arm is slid into the frame pocked no one will ever see the $408.07 "Harris" markings anyway.

Allan R

Rocket, you are soooo right. Just for kicks and giggles I went to the garage to compare my rear bushings to the 104 and 407 dollar ones

Mine are in a NAPA chassis box. Part number 267-4236. I paid 23.00 for each one. They are the "Harris silent block - exactly the same as the [expensive] ebay ones. The same number, marked the same, Made in Mexico. The only thing I noticed different in every pic I've seen of these is the 2 digit number that comes after 625226. In the 1st ebay auction it's 15 and 22, on your's it's 26, on mine its 38 & 39. I'm thinking that has something to do with which mold it came out of, or it's a batch number (quality control check). Anyway, I suppooooosssee I could always list them on ebay and sell them for 250.00 as a buy it now..... Naw, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. Too many suckers born every minute trying to make others rich

Lady72nRob71

Okay, the guessing game is closed now.

When installing my bushings, I did some research to figure out how much bolt torque it took to compress those Moog factory style rubber bushings.

This was for compressing the bushing only with clean, unlubed factory style bolts, alternating one side to another to get them tightened evenly, just to where the bracket contacts the frame.

The poll results are now visible, but noone even came close.
It took only 3 (three) foot pounds of torque per bolt to get the bracket up to the frame.
The other 27 pounds were just extras for, eh - tightness!

Allan R

Somehow I doubt that . Rob, I saw you put the stab bushings in with the slot facing forward. Does that make any difference, because I (dumbass) forgot to look how they were originally mounted on the car. I'm guessing it doesn't matter, but just thought I'd ask.

BTW, that metal prep and POR worked great on the CA's. It looks powdercoated!! Tried to clean the brush in varsol - no luck. So I just hucked it. It's just a cheap 30¢ brush anyway.

Lady72nRob71

The torque wrench tells no tales.
Right before the bracket touched the frame, I checked them. Two were 2 ft-lbs, the other 2 were 3 ft lbs.
When installing them, I used a short 3/8" ratchet and had my palm right under the socket drive, so they did go in quite easily and I needed no leverage.
The levering action of screw threads are true mechanical marvals.

The assy and CS manuals state to have the slots at the front. When twisting the bar end up, the bar wants to move rearwards.