Troys Toy 70

Well, since everyone is having sooo.... much fun. I decided to join in.

Project: 70 Cutlass
Problem: Drove ok most of the time, but would get loose on and off as you drove. Drive alright one minute, then a period of minor back and forth corrections the next minute, then back to driving normal for a while. Never was squirley, but very annoying. I had a local alighment shop take a look at it, they said two ball joints and the center link at a minimum.

I am now 3 hours into the process. Shocks are out, Sway bar is off, and as soon as I can get the center link to let go of the pitman arm, the steering linkages will be off.

My intention is to replace ca bushings, ball joints, steering linkages, brakes, and sway bar bushings.

So far what I learned. AC (Ah Crap) +MAW =$$$. I knew the MAW=$$, but I forgot the AC part.

The shocks were new, so they came out pretty quick. However, someone welded the lower bolts to the LCA's, which made the nuts easy to remove. I am not sure if I am going to stick with this non-factory option. AC, if I do that I need to find different LCA's ($$)

While rolling around on the creeper and inspecting my challenge, I looked at the steering box above the pitman arm, and it is pretty moist. Its pretty moist up by the rag joint too. I was contemplating a rebuilt box anyway, as a part of the MAW process, but AC.... went from the MAW's to the NTBD (needs to be done) category.

I am sure there are going to be other items come up along the way. Shoot, It wouldn't be fun if you had no surprises, right???

I have taken a few pictures, and I will post them when I get a chance.

So, here is a couple of questions.

1) I actually came to the point to begin to loosen the ball joint studs, but stopped pretty quick. The Driver Side LBall Joint stud just turns as I am trying to loosen it. Any suggestions?

2) What is the opinion on the best rebuild, or steering box upgrade?

Lastly, yes Rob, I finally started. Let the Games Begin!!

midrange

I'm starting mine this Saturday.
I ordered all of the parts that I could think of to replace, but forgot the center link (my first A.C. ) No biggie really, the local NAPA dealer can get pretty much anything in a day or two, and since I want to blast and repaint the control arms, I have some time to spare.

The hardest part so far was making the decision to start the project. The weather in SE Michigan has been summer like for the last couple of weeks. I figured now is the time since we are headed for a spell of 40's-50's.

Troys Toy 70

Sounds like my weekend plans as well. Same weather SE Ohio. I haven't ordered my parts yet. Thought I would tear it apart see exactly what I need, then order
That way I ll take the time to strip and paint the parts. Good luck, we will have to compare notes after the week-end

Troys Toy 70

Look Ma, no hands.... er wheels. Well yesterday went fairly good. The upper CA's are not removed yet. one bolt out, and one bolt loose, but couldn't the back one out on the driver side. Tired, frustrated, give it a break for a while. Passenger side UCA has not been touched. I have attached a couple of pictures do show my progress and what I am working with.

One of the problems I had wih the car is that she listed to the passenger side, I have included two pictures to show the difference at the top of the fenders. I also meaured down at the rocker pannel, basically the same amount off.

The other pictures show the leaky steering box, and the LCA's where bolts have been welded in. I would still like to hear some opinions on the LCA's

Troys Toy 70

The rest of the pics.

Midrange -love the avatar

My442

LCAs look weak from rust.....how is the frame?

midrange

Thanks.

I'm no expert, but those LCA's should probably be replaced, with all of the welding, etc in the shock mount area.

If your car listed to one side, sounds like a new set of springs are in order.

I ended up cutting my UCA bolts. Even after a large dose of penetrating oil, and wire brushing the threads clean, the nuts jammed up and the bolts started to spin. A 4 1/2" cutoff wheel made short work of them. I also had an exhaust heat shield on the passenger side in the way, cut that out too.

My biggest problem is that the passenger side wheel was sitting 1" farther rearward in the wheel well opening than the driver side.
Looking at the LCA, it looks like the previous owner hit something big and bent the arm.
When I took the arm off and compared it to the replacement arm, they look the same. I wish I would have taken pics, but I was so sure it was a LCA issue. I hope things line up when I'm done, I really don't want to do this project twice.

Lady72nRob71

Well, this depends on your budget and if you want to retain your old original box. The PS system can be all rebuilt by Chip at Power Steering Services.
It will cost several hundred but you'd be happy with the results. Everything will fit upon reassy, too!

A rebuilt box for a Jeep grand Cherokee is a budget upgrade but you will need hose adapters. There is a good thread someplace here outlining the whole procedure.

In a nutshell, it needs to be done since it is leaking. Might as well do the pump, too. Definetley do the hoses!

I forgot I had said something earlier, but now that you bring it up I can hound on ya.

It's about time!

ent72olds

Troy, I spoke with Chip at PSS last week, and he is at an 8-10 week turnaround right now...check out Summit...AGR Quick ratio box, turns out to be the same $ as Chip...unless you want to keep #'s matching of course! Also, if you need a set of LCA's, let me know...I can sell you a used set out of the project I'm doing for $50 + shipping, no rust...plenty of grease! By the way, don't forget to torque CA bolts until after the car is back on its own weight!

leroycjr

And there goes Rob with the "Might as well's" lol

Troys Toy 70

Frame is Good. Most of the rust on the LCA is from where it was welded, the rest of them are really solid.

Troys Toy 70

Well, just finished mowing the grass for the second time this year already. Unbelievable..

ent72olds - I'll send you a PM so you can send me some pics. Actually, I was looking at the VC build, I really think you should keep it original; and since you will want to keep it original, I'll be glad to take the silly tube frame CA's off your hands for say $75. Are the CA and springs Hoskins?Your work looks really nice on the build. I can remember being in grade school, and a one of my budy's parents had one, light blue, it was just cool. Come to think of it, his dad had either a 65 or a 66 442 we use to play in, in an old broken down garage. Maybe that is where the OLDS bug bit me. I had forgotten that fact till this very moment.

I spoke to Chip today, after reading the post from my phone. Nothing changed he is still 8-10 weeks out. Although, I like it when the owner of the company answers the phone. He seems like a nice guy. Another thing I like is that he at least gives a limited lifetime warrenty compared to the 90 days AGR does. Did you go with the 12:1 AGR or the varible rate one? I see it on the frame, have you ever ran one?

Rob- Yep, MAW do the pump and the hoses too. This has me leaning toward Chip as well. You had Chip do your steering box didn't you, but you redid the pump yourself?

Voices, Voices.... can't stop the Voices

Lady72nRob71

Here in TX, we do not even put the mower away for the season. Either its for leaves or grass. I just did mine a third time for new grass...
Need to do some maintanence on it soon, too.

Chip is a great guy - a one man shop. However he had given me some hints of a future retirement...
I went with his 12:1 conversion and I let him do the pump, too. Figured I would let him deal with it all.
It took him right at 8 weeks as he estimated. I told him not to rush it cause I was not ready for it when he was done.
He did a good job - car tracks great now!

Yep... The more MAW's I spawn, the more helmets I can sell...

Troys Toy 70

Rob- Allen warned me about the MAW's. Wife says I don't need a helmet, she has a frying pan, if I get out of control. She hasn't headed to the kitchen when I am in the garage. So I'm safe for now......

Troys Toy 70

Hey leroycjr how are you comming on your suspension?

leroycjr

I should be done this weekend!!!!! I had a few hangs ups that took a couple days to get past. Passenger side done and was fighting with the driver side CA bolts. I also went and replaced the UCA bolts after reading some more (still have my old ones if anyone is looking). I had to get another lower ball joint from RA too cause the one they sent I couldn't get the nut to turn on it and it seemed defective. I put the UCA back on yesterday so i just need to get the lower in, pop the spring in, grease, and torque it up. Been quite a fun/frustrating experience.

Cant remember who put it up here I think it was Allen but that C clamp trick work like a charm to get the UCA bolts out.

Next on my list:
Get the fuel gauge to work (I think I got that already figured out)
Get some new bulbs in the dash (cant see diddly at night)
Redo steering linkage (probably over a weekend)
Replace steering wheel (looking for something sexy)

Vistabrat72

Well even up here in Canada the lawnmower has been out once already, then an inch of snow two days later, now the hyacinths are in full bloom, go figure! Way to to Troy, yes, the MAW's get to everybody, but in the end it is so worth it, does not leave you worrying or being bugged about that 'thing' you saw that will have to be addressed, having to take it half apart once again. Ran into that chapter when the front end was apart a year ago, was glad I followed through with doing as much as could be afforded, that meant the front coils had to wait until this year. At least not much had to come apart again, and it was nice and clean. It is interesting what you will find taking apart old cars. A very annoying and scary 'BANG' I would get when backing up and turning hard was traced to the aftermarket front sway bar (1 1/4 inch I think) being installed UPSIDE-DOWN by the previous owner, compounded by too short links, the bar hitting the clamps on the tie rod ends. Nobody noticed this until I looked carefully at pictures. UGH! The joys of these projects, like unearthing fossils! Howie

Troys Toy 70

Progress report - UCA's are out. However, I decided not to mess with them until after I removed the PS Pump and Steering Box. Funny, once the intermediate shaft is disconnected from the box and the box is down, there is a lot more room to pry on things. DS back was still the stubborn one, but it eventially yeilded to my harsh words and growls. Passenger side was wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, YEAH....wiggle, wiggle, wiggle....YEAH.

While I don't like the wait, I still think Chip is the way to go. I saw some mixed reviews on the AGR boxes, (but they were 3 or 4 years old). I am going to try and get the fluid drained so I can the pump and box shipped this week.

The AC moment for the day. At some point, someone decided that my car should have a 403 block with 350 #8 heads, and paint it Ah...you know @#%$& orange. Well as a part of this process, they put a bolt in for the PS pump bracket that goes throught the waterpump, instead of the male to male stud. Naturally, I took the bolt out to get the pump and bracket removed. Thought to myself, I wonder how good the waterpump is sealed up and if this will cause a leak now that the bolt has been losened. Almost on cue, a little stream of water decides to appear and run down the side of the block. Quickly, insert bolt and retighted water stops, but I get the feeling another MAW is on the horizon. I will post some more pictures later to tired tonight.

Lady72nRob71

Since it will take 8 weeks for the steering sytem to be rebuilt, you have lots of time for further resto.
Lets see - water pump, timing chain set (if unknown condition), repaint the brackets, repaint the engine..............
Okay, I will shut up.

If you get a stock stud to replace that bolt, and coat it with sealant, it might seal up that hole. Would have to consult the manual to be sure...

On the positive side, you will like Chip's work. He has only done a few thousand of these, so i trust he knows what he's doing! Great way to support small American businesses, too.

Troys Toy 70

Happen to know where there is a stock stud, in a 350 block 25 yards away from the car. Waterpump is relatively new, previous owner gave me receipt. Timing gear- nope. That will wait for the 455. Paint the motor.....hmm...what color do you paint a 403? Gold, 455 blue, or bronze? I don't like factory GM blue or black. Brackets...maw. Man you is kill'n me.

Box and pump go out tomorrow. Looking at your steering box, did you go with the regular or extreme detail?

Lady72nRob71

That's the spirit!
I went with the extreme detailing. Hey, might as well, huh?

Troys Toy 70

How do you have a frustrating Saturday?? First, go driving with teenage driver preparing for her dirving test. Second go fight with ball joints and bushings.

Update: steering box, and pump out to Chip. Thus, my steering now stops just after it passes thrught the firewall, everthing else is off the car.

UCA bushings out. Purchased different LCA's, pressed ball joints out of them. Moved on to bushing and one circle bushing out. One Oval bushing moved, but is not wanting to come out all the way, even after collapsing with cold chisel. Other Circle bushing, same thing. Well, progress is slow sometimes..

Troys Toy 70

Yep, springs are one the parts list. How are things coming? Are things starting to line up?

Troys Toy 70

Thanks, I really do not know where I would be without this websight. It's great to have the encouragement and the knowledge, and to see others overcome the same struggles. You have to expect some UGH's along the way, when working on a 40 year old, 2 ton fossil. It still fun in a strange sort of way.

Troys Toy 70

Some updated Pictures:

Finally disassembly is complete, now I can move on to cleaning. Pictures include: Parts Bin- each part that has come off is "bagged and tagged", until new parts replace them, (if there are new parts.)

Second Picture shows my helpers. They act more like supervisors.

Third picture is the MBITB oval busing, after about 5 hours of trying everything including drilling the rubber out, and collapsing the bushing it finally came out. I could see daylight around 2/3 of the busing on the inner edge and it still wouldn't come out. Simply amazing what will hold up the process.

Fourth Picture displays my trials and tribulations, and what I learned. Last post, I said progress is slow. Two of the LCA bushings were PITB. (lower left and top) While I had cleaned them with a wire brush and some emery cloth, they faught me every milimeter of the way. Before, I did the last oval bushing (lower right) , I started with 60 grit sandpaper, and sanded until I no longer had finger prints and the bushing was nice and shinny, then hit it with emery cloth. There is really no reason to sand the middle of the bushing, but it is a by-product of sanding the inside edges. End result, 1 hour worth of sanding, 5 minutes in the press beats 5 hours of beating and hammering the others! Lesson learned.

The last picture shows the last oval bushing's rubber which was worn slightly to one side. I do not know if it helped, but I sanded it even too. At least I knew the press would push against it straight.

Lady72nRob71

Wow - what a challenge! Mine came out so much easier, but yours might have had more of the evil rust on them, bonding them to the arms.
Glad you got them out!
Looks like your "helpers" are laying down on the job...

So you have 8 weeks until your steery system comes back. What else will you do to fill the time?

Troys Toy 70

I think it was more rust/dirt/undercoating that was evil. I guess we can see who is more stubborn.

As for what will I do......Well....
Clean parts, paint parts, clean what frame I can get to, paint frame, re-assemble.
Put on new exhaust manifold gasket,
Find oil leak, think it is valve cover gaskets, fix oil leak.
New transmission lines- replace rubber hoses that clamp to each fitting.
New motor mounts.
Driver door bushings and fix latch so I can open door from inside.
New a/c duct work.
and that is before any MAW's

Lady72nRob71

Great! Sounds like good plans in the works. Check your valve seals, too, while the covers are off.

Troys Toy 70

Boy, I really thought I was getting out ahead of you on the MAW's. I yeild to your wisdom Master Yoda. Right now, it sitting in the garage is driving me nuts. Last few day's mid- 60's, and I have seen a lot of the "Cars of Summer" stretching and blowing out the cobwebs. Then, I think that should be me...sometime soon, I hope.

Lady72nRob71

I had missed out on some good shows last year when Lady was all in pieces, strewn all around the house and around the country...
While June - August were too hot for cruising, Sept and Oct were much better.
However, it was a sacrifice. I sacrificed time with friends, going to shows, missed my fall vacation, motorcycle gatherd dust, lady friend gave up on me, and yard kinda went to crap.
However, in the end all was worth it. At least I know that lots of work is DONE - and done right! So far no issues with my work, not even a valve cover weep.
The only thing I would have done differently was to not use the HD springs. I liked the smoother ride of the regulars.

So concentrate on doing it now and right. The next year you will be cruising, and making up for the down time!
You seem to have great weather for workking, so you will not be doing it all in a 100* garage!

Troys Toy 70

Wind in your hair, sand in your face, or sand in your hair and wind in your face. Yep, you guessed it; I did not go to the beach, but I did try my luck at sandblasting for the first time. Nothing high-tech, 50lb bag of playsand, nozzel with inlet hose to stick in the bag. Hook up air and away we go.

I didn't get as far as I thought I would, I only bought 1-bag of sand to see how I would do. I got one of the upper control arms done and 3/4 of the other one; then out of sand. Just as well, I needed to scape the undercoating off of the lower ones, a lot of undercoating on them.

I thought what I did do turned out ok for a newbe.

Troys Toy 70

My initial goal was to get it done before Memorial Day, the steering box rebuild has put that out of the question. I would really like to have it done by 1 st of July. A highschool budy of mine has a 64 Impala, and there is a car show I thought it would be neat if both cars could go to. He is working on his too. I agree that you have to sacrifice a lot, but there are a couple of things working in my favor. Live in the country-don't have to keep up with everbody's yard. Wife of 22 years- knew I was crazy about cars when she met me. Weather- it has been good. Still pluggin along. Somethings on my list may not get done with this adventure, but I am sure I will keep a running list to keep me busy. As I was scaping undercoating, I thought this must really either be nuts, or a labor of love (insanity)

Lady72nRob71

Very nice blast results!

Troys Toy 70

One thing, I forgot to tell you. Last night I pulled the trigger, ordered my parts from Rockauto, and I ordered the HD springs. (basically the same parts you did, and pretty close to the same price a year later. I thought you intially liked the HD springs, more time in the saddle must have changed your mind. That is Ok, my 70 has some strange attributes, any way. 1" front sway bar, checked it against the CSM, and boxed lower rear control arms, but no rear swaybar. I have the feeling someone pulled it off years ago. I may have a lead on one though. SO..between everything, I expect it to ride tighter.

leroycjr

I got my alignment on Friday and maybe because my old springs and front end sucked baby shiggity I love the ride of the HD's. Its tight and hard on the eway.

Troy - those are some mighty sexy control arms with the rust blown off them Those should look GREAT after a little paint.

Troys Toy 70

Thanks, I hope the rest of the parts turn out that good.

Great! I am glad your done and glad you like them. I pretty sure my springs were wore out, so I am really courious what it will ride like. Compared to the poor shape of the bushings, ball joints center link, power steering box; I might think she is ready for LeMans.

Troys Toy 70

Thanks, Rob

Lady72nRob71

That is what happened.
Also, i tend to cruise the not-so-smooth back farm roads rather than the well-maintained super highways, so that is a big part of it.
I feel too much roughness in the steering wheel and gas pedal that was not there before. The seat absorbs most of it before it gets to my body, so thats a good thing. Many new cars have super hard seats that really fatigue me even after short drives.

On the plus side, I am able to take 35mph curves at 50 without drama so there is the tradeoff. I suppose I could reduce tire pressure from 35 down to 32 or so for a smoother ride...

Troys Toy 70

In my neck of the woods, back roads are where the payment stops. I have 3/4 mile gravel I go like -2mph until I hit the blacktop, then 2 3/4 miles of a curvy down hill run, then I hit the true 2 lane state hwy to go anywhere.

As for better handling vs slightly stiffer ride...For me, I think it will be Ok. But what is more important, is what the Mrs thinks. She can drive. I think she would give Dancia a run for her money. When we were kids, she had an 84 CS, I had a 72 CS, straights were mine, corners were hers. I usually had both hands on the wheel and praying to keep up with her in the corners. If she enjoys the car 1/2 as much as I do, then that is a big plus for this car craze.

Troys Toy 70

Week-end was going to be poor weather wise. So, I decided to take Friday off, and sandblast the lower control arms. Let's just say that no one that is a profesional sandblaster has anything to fear from my proficency. 6 hours later I achieved my goal. Also, in the middle of the day Santa Claus (Fed Ex)came with my new parts from Rockauto. Christmas in April........Now, where did that silly fat man put the OAI Hood that I have always wanted???