Is it possible for a 69 W-31 F85 to not have boxed control arms and the rear sway bar as part of the original, factory build?

I read on another site that in 69, all W-31s had them.

Anyone here know for sure?

Thanks

 

I am thinking all real ones had the boxed arms and anti sway bar.

 

x2

 

Thanks to both of you.

 

Nov 72 parts book says rear sway bar was used with 442, police, rally suspension.

 

Thanks, Run. So was the Rally suspension (FE2) a mandatory option when ordering the W31? I'll bet someone has dealer order sheets or salesman's guides. That may give us a definitive answer.

 

68 W-31 Ramrods did NOT get the boxed control arms and sway bar. It was an admitted oversight by engineering to not require the 442 "suspension" package. All other W-31s after 68 included this requirement. Check with DaveH for any Ramrod info you need! Not much he doesnt know about them!! He worked in Old engineering on the project developing the Ramrod and he bought one new and still has it!!

 

Thanks to all of you. I read DaveH's post on the V8Buick site on the subject a few weeks back. But wanted to see if there was anything out there to contradict the prevailing thought on the subject.

Again thanks to all.

 

rear boxed arms and rear sway bar were optional in 69 as they weren't on mine. or mine's a fake

 

Thanks Junior, I'm restoring a W31 and was told it did not have it. I live in NW burbs. I'd love to see your 69 sometime.

Bob D'

 

There are a bunch of pics on wmachinesregistry.com from when I bought it


Here's a pic "in action" from a little over a year ago.




a week ago I just got done removing the front clip to get sheetmetal repaired. Not sure when the car will be mobile again, hopefully sometime in the spring.

 

My '69 window sticker shows it as an option

 

Click on the attachment, then click on the pic, it will get a little larger, enough to see it listed as a $13.27 option. I would have swore that it was standard in '69.

 

Nope --- DaveH has confirmed that it was made standard late 69 for the 70 models and was optional for 69 (just as your above window sticker shows). Damn, $13 bux! That was "steep" --- can see why people buying a "race model" didnt want it!! NOT!!

 

Can you tell us when your car was built?? How bout a pic of your trim tag? or just the build code -- column 1 :such as 06B - etc!
Thanks. I think its really interesting when someone can attach "fact" to an issue instead of just "heard rumor" info! Interestingly, you even answered a question to your self as to the fact that the suspension package as an option and not "included".
Some times options were "required" when selecting a companion item as opposed to as being "included" in a selected packaged item ( such as W-31 or 442).
Thanks again for this great piece of documentation!! It certainly lays the issue to rest. In 70, it was included on all W-31s.

 

05D is the build date, fourth week of May 1969. Other than the body number, the only other info is the trim: 930 Black, and the paint: 55 55 for Tahitian Turquoise, top and bottom. I have a pic of the trim tag somewhere...before I went digital, so It's hard to say where it's at. (I have boxes of car photos). But I do have a rubbing that I keep in my '69 3 ring notebook.

 

Thank you very much!!

 

Thank you for contributing your documentation 1969w3155. This confirms what the seller of my car stated as truthful. In my case there is no window sticker to refer to. The trim tag does not mention the suspension option, just the B90 window trim. Build date on mine is O5D.

 

I purchased an 05A built W31 from the original owner. It never had a rear sway bar or boxed control arms.

 

Nice car!!!

 

If you two guys each have a car built '05D' then you should compare VIN numbers!!!

 

Last six digits, 398006.

 

The Crimson car = 402415

 

Must have been a busy week, 4409 cars built in between the two.

 

Total F85/Cutlass body style production for 69 was 280,966 according to sources published in "Wild about Cars". That translates to 5,400 per week. Don't know how vin #'s were allocated between the various assembly plants. But it seems reasonable.

 

I bought a mountain of parts off a guy who was buying and selling cutlass's in the 80/90's he wasn't a body man or anything, he bought and sold finished cars, but he always ended up with x-tra stuff from each seller. (ok, thats the back story) I got two sets of rear arms with the parts and one set clearly had a sway bar bolted to it, but they were not boxed. It was clear they were not "home drilled" as you may think, it was the first thing I looked at.

And since we're on the rear sway subject, I did buy a factory set up from an H/O guy, and the arms came with bolts, the question is, are the factory bolts supposed to be fine thread, or course? (ALL replacements sold are course, but that doesn't mean they're correct)

 

I have one of these rear swaybars still attached to the UN-boxed control arms sitting in my shop right now. I acquired it in a large assortment of parts for 68-69 F-85/Cutlass. It appears to have been removed from a car - swaybar intact and still bolted to the control arms. That, to me, is "living proof" that the combination was available!! I can take a pic of it and post it if anyone in interested in seeing it?

 

I would like to see a picture of the setup, open sides of the arms up and bolt threads if it at all possible ?

 

will take pix in next day or two when i get back out to the shop (provided i dont forget)!! hell to get old!!!

 

I have a 69 442 and currently replacing the gas tank, I noticed my control arms are not boxed but I have a swaybar. I kinda thought they may have been replaced at some time but looking at them I don't think so.
I was going to buy the kit and box them when time comes to replace bushings etc. Is this setup not common?

 

I recommend not wasting your time and money and energy on boxing an old set of arms and installing new bushings. I recommend you go out and buy a nice set of afttermarket control arms with the teflon bushings and grease zerts alredy in them and put em on. No work necessary -- and you have a much stronger and better setup!!! MOO!

P.S. From what the "guru's" tell me --- Your combination of a swaybar on open control arms on a 442 was never released from the factory? Maybe someonelike WMachines can verify that for you??

 

Good advice, I probably will. They sure look factory, bushing look to have never been changed.

 

Okay, I'll weigh in here. I do not believe any Olds left the factory with a rear sway bar that didn't have boxed arms. Period. Olds learned in '65 that not boxing them all the way was trouble, and it is inconceivable that that they had a memory lapse like that. And one has to believe there were *lots* of guys that just added the bar (without boxed arms) back in the day. Either didn’t know better or didn’t care. After 40 years, anything can look stock.
It is the FE2 suspension that gives you the rear sway bar. The bar itself was never an option nor a single component.

One has to be careful about citing a option listing like this as proof they didn't come with the listed option. In this case, that's correct, they didn't come with with the FE2. But G80 is listed too. And they *did* come with G80 Anti-Spin. We're not considering "mandatory options" here. G80 is a mandatory option, FE2 is not on W31s. Window stickers do not tell you whether or not an option is mandatory. So even a window sticker won't tell you as much as you may think!
The FE2 suspension was not available as a separate option in '68, only as part of the 442 package. It was not even an available option early in the '69 year. It was added sometime after the beginning of the year as an option, and the W31 description was changed to add "FE2 recommended", confirming that it was certainly not included.
In 1970, it would show up again as an option, but this time as a mandatory option on the W31.

Nothing like a contradictory sounding term "mandatory option" to make things complicated. And just for the record, Olds used both "rally" and "rallye" to describe the FE2.

 

just to add to the "mandatory" confusion the order form on my '70 W30 notes a separate price for the sport mirrors and those are supposed to be included in the W30 Package, but the original buyer paid extra for them.

 

That doesn't add to the confusion, it is the same thing I just talked about. Sport mirrors are a mandatory option with a '70 W30. So are the raised white letter wide oval tires.
They're mandatory options, not "included". So I wouldn't call it paying extra.

 

not to highjack the thread but...

Can you clarify, doesn't the W30 option you pay for include the sport mirrors? The hood, heads, aluminum manifold etc. are not listed separately on the car shipping order but the D35 Sports styled outside mirrors are - at least on mine. Well after just looking so is the G80 and PK5

W30 W-Machine package $321.23
D35 Sports styled outside mirrors are $22.12
G80 Anti-spin rear axle $42.13
PK5 Wide Oval tires - raise letters $26.33

 

No, that's what I'm trying to explain. That's what "mandatory option" means. It is required, listed separately and paid for separately. D35 and PK5 are "mandatory options". I'm not sure G80 is, I don't believe it is mandatory if you have AC. One way or the other, G80 would be listed and paid for separately.

A W25 hood is "included", not a "mandatory option". So it is not listed and separately charged for.

 

Not mandatory with A/C on a '70 W-30 but in order to get A/C on a '70 W-30 it had to have M40 (400 AT), G91 (3.23:1) and JL2 (Power Front Disc Brakes) and Not available with G88 (3.91:1) or G92 (3.42:1)

 

thanks guys for the clarity, I thought mirrors were included, learn something everyday

A W25 hood is "included", not a "mandatory option". So it is not listed and separately charged for.[/QUOTE]

 

My '69 W-31 did not have the boxed arms but did have some weird Heavy Duty items. The car was ordered to race, built in Nov. '68 and came from the factory as follows:
F51 H/D rear springs, V01 H/D radiator, G88 H/D rear axle, G80 Anti-spin,
N10 is listed separately
A02 tinted windshield (only)
There are also some weird things on the original bill of sale: listed are A82 Head restaints, U73 hood stripes, W-31 Force Air, M21 4 speed Synchro.trans., and D55 console.
This car was built radio delete, and driver's side mirror only.
I have the original control arms and rear housing but currently they are not in the car. When the racing wound down and the car was sold, the buyer insisted on an AM radio and on the radio is hand written in pencil that original buyer's name---there is an over-the-counter antenna installed in the fender.
Like I said some weird stuff. My car is largely original paint and other than carpet, completely original interior. Under 11,000 original miles.