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8/10/2024 UPDATE-I just located the numbers matching block!!! I will able to provide knowledgle if its whereabouts.
FIRSTLY - Thank you for taking the time to look and read my ad.
**Rare 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S W-31** PRICE $69,500.00
Documented: GM of Canada Vintage Vehicle Services (VVS)
VIN#: 336870M316675
Miles 92,189
Paint: 75 - Matador Red
Stripe: 10 – Porcelain White
Interior: 937 – Ivory Bucket Seats
Transmission: M38 - Original J/O transmission 30M316675
Rear Axle: G-80 Original TM (Limited Slip Differential) and G-92 Original 3.42:1 (w/aftermarket Aluminum W-27 cover) This documented W-31 comes with the following:
Xerox copy of 1970 Sales contract
Canadian import letter
Indisputable GM of Canada Vintage Vehicle Services (VVS) verification
P05 - OEM SSIs Wheels (14”) with Cooper Cobra Tires 225/70R14 in addition to wheels on the car
Miscellaneous parts and decals specific to this W31 (OEM and non OEM)
1 Original print 1970 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual OEM
1 Chilton’s (8668)-28522 GM Cutlass RWD (1970-1987) Repair Manual still original plastic seal
Important facts: Engine block is a non-numbers matching Power brakes were added at some point prior to my ownership (W-31s were not optioned with this) Big balancer is not on the car Original Q-Jet 7040255 Carburetor has been removed prior to my ownership. Currently has Q-Jet 7040251 Cooling fan is 5 blade, not 6. Snorkel is not original, it is a 1971/1972 snorkel.
History: I purchased this car from a party located in Texas in late December of 2022. I have very limited knowledge of this amazing machine except what the previous owner provided. The previous owner had an automotive rebuilding business, currently collects, rebuilds and sells classics. He owns numerous muscle cars and is a local legend racing speed boats known for his muscle cars. I learned a former NBA player owned this W-31 prior to him; who played for the LA Lakers then the Houston Rockets.This car underwent transformation in the mid 2010’s to where it is in its current state today and has a non matching numbers engine.
A few Improvements accomplished:
New 15” wheels and tires
Wheel Alignment
Tie rods
New date coded Packard Spark plug wires.
Stereo/speakers/amp which are on a floating board in the trunk and can be easily removed with a trace or damaging mark.
Cleaned up majority wiring
Revamp trunk compartment with lots of new parts and detail
Fluids changed (oil, rear end, anti-freeze)
Brakes (rotors, drums, pads)
Radiator hoses/clamps
Heater core hoses/clamps
PVC fittings and seals
OAI foam/springs/cleaning and repaint
Custom made 8-track style housing for stereo and new Oil pressure and Temp gauges
All new fuses/cleaned fuse box
Lots of new parts
EXTERIOR: All original metal in great shape. There are 2 or 3 spots that “may” require attention down the road (small paint chips on the hood by OAI latch, and 2 small spots where I found minimal repair left rear by bumper and left side lower fender) The original ram air hood has no cracks. The gaps are square and flush, doors shut with 1 finger. Original 1970 only sport mirrors AND a factory installed wing. The jambs are still look great as well as the weather-striping. Paint looks great and is smooth and glossy. The stripes are painted correctly. All the chrome and trim are still in excellent shape. All headlights work, including high beams as well as the horn.
INTERIOR: Mostly original with bucket seats. Door panels are excellent. The dash area and steering wheel look amazing. Dash is fully functional. New stereo with oil pressure gauge and temp gauge was added to look like OEM 8-track player and removes functions from OEM radio and gauge packs. New tic-toc tach. They can be hooked up again easily if the new items are removed. All interior lighting has been converted to LED. It has radio (unsure if it original) and a rear defogger. Carpet and floor mats are excellent. Seatbelts and shoulder belts for front the seats. Hurst Dual gate shifter is fully functional and looks perfect. Small nickel size hole in roof liner – driver’s side front where the shoulder strap seat belt is.
ENGINE and ENGINE COMPARTMENT: Looks clean and overall in amazing condition. This is a non-matching numbers block with block being correct for that era. #6 heads, engine block casting 395558 2, has the original W-350 aluminum intake and has distributor #1111975. The ram air system is complete and functional. It has power brakes which were added prior to my ownership and are not original to the car. It's a very clean and complete motor compartment. Two noteworthy missing engine items are the original Q-Jet 7040255 carb and big balancer. Current carb is a Q-Jet 7040251. This engine has the foundations to be restored to its original glory.
TRUNK COMPARTMENT: The original red paint under the trunk lid and the jamb is excellent. I have placed new jack and anti-spin diff stickers in proper locations and the weather-striping is in good shape. Inside has been resprayed at some point prior to my ownership and now has a new trunk matt, now has era correct jack and I placed one of the SSI wheels in the trunk. It has an upgraded stereo (built in blue-tooth, remote control) with all new speakers, one 10” sub-woofer with 2 amplifiers on a floating custom board for easy removal (if you want to go back to the stock look) and just wire up the new rear speakers without the amps and sub.
UNDERSIDE: It has the ride and handling package which includes boxed rear control arms, front and rear sway bars. The shocks and springs were replaced prior to my ownership. It has disc brakes in front, e-brake assembly is hooked up. Dual exhaust with Flowmaster mufflers. The car has been undercoated and looking up at the motor is clean. This classic comes with #s matching transmission (30M316675). Unique to the W-31 is a special built JO code Turbo 350 automatic with higher valve body pressure boasting a 2600-2800 stall speed and a 6 clutch design and this W-31 also comes with a Hurst dual gate shifter. The 3.42:1 rear end gears with H.D. axles (axel code TM) has aluminum W-27 cover which was added at some point and makes a great addition to the look of the car!
Personal note:
The car drives and handles extremely nice with tight steering is tight and it's hard to believe you are in a 54 year old car. This car rides, you will not be disappointed on this 54 year old beauty. I can also tell you this W-31 wants to pull, almost more than she should. She runs extremely well, purrs like a kitten under the hood and growls at the tail pipes. The interior overall is very, very nice and very desirable! There is a nickel size hole in the roof liner on the driver side where the shoulder seat belt rest and the body is straight. I have found 2 (maybe 3, depends how you see it) spots on the body that “may” need attention in the next several years or so.
Last edited by W-31 1970; Aug 11, 2024 at 05:14 AM.
Reason: Updated
I think that pointing these things out, helps to keep fellow members from getting burned.
Maybe start a new thread about things like that. You can title it in the general discussion section as a car in the for sale ads, include the link to the ad if you wish....just don't start pinging on the car inside the ad itself is the guidance I'm taking from the rules laid down.
To those who disagree AKA haters....Unless you know what I know and where there to have the discussion I had, you don't know. So PLEASE since you don't know DON'T SPECULATE. Or feel free to come look at the car and the documentation. Then we can all have those discussions with those who just may know things that you may not. And if you feel the need to engage me in a conversation that is transparent about the car I have zero issue doing that. So please stop running your mouths if you don't know THE FACTS.
Last edited by W-31 1970; Aug 5, 2024 at 07:44 PM.
Agree. (1) It isn't serial number (as stated); (2) it's a VIN derivative number; and, (3) VIN derivative numbers weren't removed for warranty work.
You are incorrect
Please see the below. And pardon the unfavorable and offensive terminology SMH to you as labeling it as serial number. However it is labeled correctly in the below forum for your liking. Admin, can we please put a rest to the incorrect assessments on my vehicle from the following members?
Can you please review all comments. This is ridiculous. If you feel like contacting me, please do so. Some members and their comments are slanderous and damaging and need attention. They are not based on facts. I stand behind what I post with integrity and transparency.
Last edited by W-31 1970; Aug 6, 2024 at 05:17 AM.
W-31 did not have power brakes, engine does not make enough vacuum to operate power brakes. Your pictures show power brakes
At some point someone added the power brakes. There are quite a few W-31s that have added power brakes. When I bought the car, it had drilled and slotted rotors. I put OEM replacment GM rotors and pads on the fronts.
Last edited by W-31 1970; Aug 6, 2024 at 06:36 AM.
Some like it, some do not. That can be for the next owner.
It doesn't matter what anyone likes. It's not correct for that level of restoration. It didn't start showing up in the OEMs until the late 70's.
I'm just saying that it detracts from the engine bay in terms of "correctness".
At some point someone added the power brakes. There are quite a few W-31s that have added power brakes. When I bought the car, it had drilled and slotted rotors. I put OEM replacment GM rotors and pads on the fronts.
you cant just “add” power brakes to a w-31 without changing the camshaft, the power brakes will not work. Oldsmobile make special proportioning valve to operate the disc brakes on w-31 so no vacuum assist was necessary.
It doesn't matter what anyone likes. It's not correct for that level of restoration. It didn't start showing up in the OEMs until the late 70's.
I'm just saying that it detracts from the engine bay in terms of "correctness".
I unerstand. I believe wireloom was being used in the engine compartment on the Cutlass beginning 1971, if I remember correctly.
you cant just “add” power brakes to a w-31 without changing the camshaft, the power brakes will not work. Oldsmobile make special proportioning valve to operate the disc brakes on w-31 so no vacuum assist was necessary.
Maybe we can stop/refrain from making this worse & instead offer suggestions in helping you understand how to better word your statements which could help you deliver the same basic story of the car? There remain possibilities so remain open to suggestions.
Here is the statement I find inaccurate - NOTE: I am not stating you are lying, being deceptive, or otherwise attempting to or creating a false narrative:
the serial number under the #1 cylinder has been sanded/grinded off. This is typical of a factory warranty job of the era.
The statement itself is false - it is NOT correct. Relax and take notice.
There was absolutely no OEM GM Oldsmobile block in which any certified GM Oldsmobile mechanic in a GM Oldsmobile dealership service facility would have been directed to sand &/or grind off ANY block derivative. That's a simple fact. You are interjecting your own supposed notions in an attempt to justify why there is no block VIN derivative (again, it is NOT a serial number). Allow that point to digest.
It might be possible (highly unlikely and highly unusual) an OEM GM Oldsmobile block was installed without a block VIN derivative as a warranty replacement block - extraordinarily unlikely and EXTREMELY unlikely on ANY W-31 vehicle. The VIN derivative (which is NOT a serial number) demonstrates documented authenticity the original engine installed at the factory on the assembly line matches the original VIN plate located on the dashboard of the vehicle. It also demonstrates to GM Oldsmobile a manner to track any/all TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) work applicable to this car and as it relates to all GM Oldsmobile vehicle engine blocks since it provides insight regarding engine manufacturing date by the GM Oldsmobile engine shop when they built the engine and cars they were installed into.
Instead, consider changing the "wording" of your your statements (above). Don't imply and make suggestions it was "typical of a factory warranty job of the era" - IT WAS NOT. You're providing false statements. Sanding/Grinding off an original OEM VIN derivative was not performed by ANY authorized GM Oldsmobile dealership certified mechanic at ANY GM Oldsmobile facility ANYWHERE.
Instead, consider statements such as:
You cannot document authenticity of the engine block as it contains no VIN derivative; or, you have been unable to validate originality of the engine block as it contains no block VIN derivative. Further enlighten/enhance your statement(s) by making suggestions as to why you might suspect this to be the case i.e. is it possible the engine block is a replacement of the original engine block and someone forgot to stamp the engine block? Is it possible engine block was installed from any/some other GM Oldsmobile vehicle, marine or agricultural service entity? You cannot say but you're being truthful - you don't know and you can't validate the authenticity of the engine block because it contains no engine block VIN derivative. IMO, those type statements speak far more to honesty and trustworthiness than to suggest a GM Oldsmobile engine block VIN derivative was sanded off or ground off as is "typical of a factory warranty job of the era". Be truthful (yeah there's no engine block VIN derivative) but state you honestly have no idea why there is no block VIN derivative stamped onto this engine block but you're being up front.
Bottom line it was NOT "typical of a factory warranty job of the era". So, instead, glean some advice from member statements when they say it's false, incorrect & not true because it is false, incorrect & not true - but, you can still learn from this and you can still make accommodations to your wording which demonstrates more knowledge you've learned.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; Aug 6, 2024 at 06:51 AM.
FINAL NOTE: Do you think I not know and understand all these things?! This is why they are listed in the ad I am being TRANSPARENT or I wouldn't list these things....MORE IMPORTANTLY all information will be discussed with interested parties vis any form of communication they prefer. The car is open to inspection (obviously) to thiose interested and you would think I did my due dilligence in have the car "looked at" by "EXPERIENCED" and "PROFESSIONLS" dealing with Oldsmobils and specifically with W-31s to help me evalute and come to terms what price point I should be on this car. That being said, IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, please ask me a question and I will be happy to answer, HOWEVER, please keep your opininions to yourself if you do not know the facts. This has become a complete joke.
FINAL NOTE: Do you think I not know and understand all these things?
Unfortunately, no. I do not believe you know &/or understand all these things. You became a member of this forum seeking the expert advice of it's members regarding authenticity of the W-27 rear end.
You made essentially no posts &/or threads during the past 1.5 years - essentially you've created two threads: (1) Asking member advice about the W-27 rear end and (2) creation of a Cars For Sale classified in which you now know EVERYTHING.
What's bothersome is your attitude. Members are making attempts to help you but you're unyielding. Instead, you're fighting everyone. Unless you back off your haunches, relax & take five, you can grab a cookie on your wait out. Relax and enjoy the ride. We all love this hobby.
Maybe we can stop/refrain from making this worse & instead offer suggestions in helping you understand how to better word your statements which could help you deliver the same basic story of the car? There remain possibilities so remain open to suggestions.
Here is the statement I find inaccurate - NOTE: I am not stating you are lying, being deceptive, or otherwise attempting to or creating a false narrative:
The statement itself is false - it is NOT correct. Relax and take notice.
There was absolutely no OEM GM Oldsmobile block in which any certified GM Oldsmobile mechanic in a GM Oldsmobile dealership service facility would have been directed to sand &/or grind off ANY block derivative. That's a simple fact. You are interjecting your own supposed notions in an attempt to justify why there is no block VIN derivative (again, it is NOT a serial number). Allow that point to digest.
It might be possible (highly unlikely and highly unusual) an OEM GM Oldsmobile block was installed without a block VIN derivative as a warranty replacement block - extraordinarily unlikely and EXTREMELY unlikely on ANY W-31 vehicle. The VIN derivative (which is NOT a serial number) demonstrates documented authenticity the original engine installed at the factory on the assembly line matches the original VIN plate located on the dashboard of the vehicle. It also demonstrates to GM Oldsmobile a manner to track any/all TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) work applicable to this car and as it relates to all GM Oldsmobile vehicle engine blocks since it provides insight regarding engine manufacturing date by the GM Oldsmobile engine shop when they built the engine and cars they were installed into.
Instead, consider changing the "wording" of your your statements (above). Don't imply and make suggestions it was "typical of a factory warranty job of the era" - IT WAS NOT. You're providing false statements. Sanding/Grinding off an original OEM VIN derivative was not performed by ANY authorized GM Oldsmobile dealership certified mechanic at ANY GM Oldsmobile facility ANYWHERE.
Instead, consider statements such as:
You cannot document authenticity of the engine block as it contains no VIN derivative; or, you have been unable to validate originality of the engine block as it contains no block VIN derivative. Further enlighten/enhance your statement(s) by making suggestions as to why you might suspect this to be the case i.e. is it possible the engine block is a replacement of the original engine block and someone forgot to stamp the engine block? Is it possible engine block was installed from any/some other GM Oldsmobile vehicle, marine or agricultural service entity? You cannot say but you're being truthful - you don't know and you can't validate the authenticity of the engine block because it contains no engine block VIN derivative. IMO, those type statements speak far more to honesty and trustworthiness than to suggest a GM Oldsmobile engine block VIN derivative was sanded off or ground off as is "typical of a factory warranty job of the era". Be truthful (yeah there's no engine block VIN derivative) but state you honestly have no idea why there is no block VIN derivative stamped onto this engine block but you're being up front.
Bottom line it was NOT "typical of a factory warranty job of the era". So, instead, glean some advice from member statements when they say it's false, incorrect & not true because it is false, incorrect & not true - but, you can still learn from this and you can still make accommodations to your wording which demonstrates more knowledge you've learned.
I am trying to clarify right now with one of the experts to see if I was misinformed. I will update and clarify as soon as I know the facts.
Unfortunately, no. I do not believe you know &/or understand all these things. You became a member of this forum seeking the expert advice of it's members regarding authenticity of the W-27 rear end.
You made essentially no posts &/or threads during the past 1.5 years - essentially you've created two threads: (1) Asking member advice about the W-27 rear end and (2) creation of a Cars For Sale classified in which you now know EVERYTHING.
What's bothersome is your attitude. Members are making attempts to help you but you're unyielding. Instead, you're fighting everyone. Unless you back off your haunches, relax & take five, you can grab a cookie on your wait out. Relax and enjoy the ride. We all love this hobby.
Obviously. ANd also bothersome to me is the attitude of members in a forum meant for classifeds. Approach me one on one. What happened here is wrong. Including by myself, however advice and "claiing out BS" based on not knowing and more importantly not asking one on one is also wrong. So, yes, that put me in a defensinse posture...AND yet you still provoke. "(2) creation of a Cars For Sale classified in which you now know EVERYTHING." I did not say that. I am referencing the things being discussed in this thread. Also, I did learn many things here on these forums and elsewhere, again you area assuming. So yes, this again put me on the defensive. I do not know everything,no one does. Yet here I am trying to get clarification on my end to see where I have beenpossibly mis informed so I can correct myslefy and my ad. If I need to apologize to someone I will, however, I will not be slandered nor attacked in any way and take kindly to it.
Last edited by W-31 1970; Aug 6, 2024 at 08:09 AM.
Regarding my 1970 W-31 for sale ad and the controversy it has caused, I decided to contact an expert on these specific W machines. Per my conversation with said indivdual, I have just learned that I was previously misinformed by people who were not as knowledgeable. I apologize for my behavior, I will correct my ad, delete and then repost with the corrected information. This will also include one new one item I did not know about until now in hopes the newly created ad will represent the car properly.
Regarding my 1970 W-31 for sale ad and the controversy it has caused, I decided to contact an expert on these specific W machines. Per my conversation with said indivdual, I have just learned that I was previously misinformed by people who were not as knowledgeable. I apologize for my behavior, I will correct my ad, delete and then repost with the corrected information. This will also include one new one item I did not know about until now in hopes the newly created ad will represent the car properly.
Again, I am sorry.
‘It takes a big man to admit mistakes.. my hat is off to you. Thats not easy to do.. start over with your new clarified ad.. best to you and the sale of your car.
‘It takes a big man to admit mistakes.. my hat is off to you. Thats not easy to do.. start over with your new clarified ad.. best to you and the sale of your car.
ublic apologyRegarding my 1970 W-31 for sale ad and the controversy it has caused, I decided to contact an expert on these specific W machines. Per my conversation with said indivdual, I have just learned that I was previously misinformed by people who were not as knowledgeable. I apologize for my behavior, I will correct my ad, delete and then repost with the corrected information. This will also include one new one item I did not know about until now in hopes the newly created ad will represent the car properly.
Regarding my 1970 W-31 for sale ad and the controversy it has caused, I decided to contact an expert on these specific W machines. Per my conversation with said indivdual, I have just learned that I was previously misinformed by people who were not as knowledgeable. I apologize for my behavior, I will correct my ad, delete and then repost with the corrected information. This will also include one new one item I did not know about until now in hopes the newly created ad will represent the car properly.
I can assure you that no one had any slanderous intentions. The fact is that Oldsmobiles are being LS swapped and pro touring styled to death, leaving factory examples with a dwindling population is very real to us die hards. We tend to be a little overprotective of the brand. More importantly, they are very difficult to verify accurately.
Far too often, flippers show up here with little to no verifiable information of their For Sale vehicle, asking for price ranges or asking ridiculous amounts of money for clones or fakes. We(I) might be a touch jaded.
Hopefully, you learned some things, and didn't take a bath on your investment. Peace and chicken grease ✌️
It is a fantastic looking car! Good Luck with the Sale! It's a shame you were led to believe certain things about the car that unfortunately were not based in fact, but now we have all learned a bit, and you will have a happier buyer once the wrinkles are ironed out.
