Diego

Agreed.

Of course, by 1970, the differences were obvious.

mdh157

I got several more pics of the car as well as larger ones of the ones on cL. does not look really rusty but def needs paint. car has not been run since 1983, so the mileage could be original. no AC, so it's prob a 2 barrel. I can't tell from the bigger pic, unless the air cleaner was diff for a 2 vs 4 bbl. Anyone know if it was? And apparently someone cut the right side rear door panel, prob to put in a speaker. too bad as it didn't needing replacing until they did that.

At this point it does not look like I am going to look at it.

allyolds68

Sports Coupe is a post and Holiday Coupe is no post.

I think there are a few errors in the charts above but it's really not that confusing.

There were four trim packages available:

F-85, Cutlass S, Cutlass Supreme, and 442.

The Sports Coupe (post) was available with the F-85, Cutlass S & 442 trim package. I don't think the Supreme was available in a Sports Coupe (post).

The Holiday Coupe (no post) was available with the F-85, Cutlass S, Cutlass Supreme, & 442 trim.

The Convertible was Cutlass S and 442 trim only.

Cutlass S and 442 trim packages are almost identical with the exception of a few "cutlass" or "442" emblem differences, an "oldsmobile" emblem on the hood, etc.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's the way I understand it

Diego

They are not packages - to me, "packages" implies an option package.

What you mean to say is "models"?

Also, what happened to just plain "Cutlass"?

May depend on the year, as by 1968, there were no Holiday coupes for the F-85. I'm guessing the last year for that was 1966?

What you may mean is that the Cutlass S and 4-4-2 were identically trimmed, but they came with different equipment as befitting a "regular" car and a high performance car.

Ditto!

jaunty75

I agree. The four A-body series' were F-85, Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme, and 442. The "S" in 1968 went with the body style, not the series, and it was used on the Cutlass line only.

So if you bought a Cutlass coupe or a Cutlass convertible, it was officially a Cutlass "S coupe," not a "Cutlass S" coupe, and a Cutlass "S convertible," not a "Cutlass S" convertible.

It's a small distinction, I know, but it was the way Oldsmobile labeled those body styles in 1968.

For '69 through '72, even though the "S" designation still went only with coupes and convertibles, the "S" was treated as part of the name Cutlass, not part of the body style, and the Cutlass S was treated as a separate series. Thus, there were five separate A-body series' for '69 through '71, F-85, Cutlass, Cutlass S, Cutlass Supreme, and 442, and in 1972, the 442 went back to being an option package on one (or more?) of the Cutlass lines.

Diego

I'm still in disagreement with how that's characterized. :-)

What was the order form saying? That may be the key to finding out the answer.

jaunty75

I'm just stating what the reference says. I posted scans of the relevant pages out of the appendix for all to see. The advertisement you posted a few messages back is in reality ambiguous on this point and doesn't support one argument or the other.

Perhaps a 1968 dealer order book or showroom album would have more details.

Diego

What I posted was not an advertisement - it was from the dealer album.

My main nit-pick is with this: "The "S" in 1968 went with the body style…"

All models/trim levels had a selection of body styles. The fact that the "S" is attributed to 2-doors doesn't make it more unique than any other trim level.

jaunty75

I don't really understand what your complaint is. In Oldsmobile's 1968 naming scheme, the "S" only went with Cutlass 2-doors, not F-85, Cutlass Supreme, or 442 2-doors.

It's really simple. If you bought a coupe or a convertible Cutlass in 1968, you were buying what Oldsmobile called an "S Coupe" or an "S Convertible." That's it. It ain't rocket science.

allyolds68

I agree with the "models" instead of "packages". There was no plain "Cutlass" in 68

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a non-post F-85 so that's definitely possible

That's exactly what I meant. I was just making a comment that the trim that is used for each are almost interchangable. I used a Cutlass S Convertible parts car for all my 442 trim (the 442 didn't come with any trim)

starfire

4 bbl had a red air cleaner, 2 bbl had a black one (at least on 350's).

Eddie Hansen

I would love to find production numbers, my car ( 69 cutlass S) came with a 3.08 posi, 4 speed, 350 2bbl?

what were they thinking when they ordered it LOL

Diego

But the F-85 was available as sedans and post coupes only - how is this any different from any trim level with a limited selection of styles?

Diego

But there was!

jerseyjoe

From what I have seen, I agree. The ones that appear original it seems to be the trend.

mdh157

So the only thing this car has going for it is that it does not have much rust issues......

back to the drawing board, I guess

BTW, I suppose I should apologize for starting the 'debate' that occurred earlier.....

allyolds68

I wouldn't give up on that one if it's fairly clean. No one is going to pay that kind of money for it. Let it sit for a while. For $2500 it would be a pretty good deal. It may get there.

Diego

I don't think you need to apologize! If anyone needs to apologize, it is I for contributing to the tangent. However, that's the way it goes in a forum.

RAMBOW

I guess it really depends what you are interested in, but to me, that is almost the holy grail of cheap classic cars.

if its been siting since 1983, it means there will be a minimum of bastardization and repairs done to it.

Yes, you will likley have to do some work you would rather not do immediately, but with many old cars, eventually you would rebuild a motor and brakes and suspension anyway... so why not start with a perfect candidate.

Its defintely not going to be a turn key car... but if you could negotiate that price down to say $5k, to me, it would be a score.

wiht a minimum of work it could be a runner- or a great candidate to start restoring.

Just my $.02

btw... unless you really want to spend $$ into the mid teens, you are not likely to get a car that won't be needing stuff done anyway.

You may get some peices of the puzzle,(nice paint, nice interior, good engine, good suspension) but you are unlikly to get all of them in one car unless you spend a lot more.

jerseyjoe

I agree if the car is clean it may be worth while. I would be surprised if original miles but if it is and it runs and everything is there the price is not bad. It would be worth checking out even if for experience only. You may be surprised. A new top, some tires and rims and it becomes a whole different car. I don't see it going down that low though. You can't buy a convertible bucket of rust $2500. But you never know.. If it is original and somebody that knows what they are looking at, I would guess the car won't be around long. I have went to look at cars that look great in pics but turn out to be a painted rust bucket and the seller wants 14k for it.

mdh157

Rambow and jerseyjoe: both good points. I am 98% sure i could get the car for 5K, but I still think it will be too much for it. My intention (or hope) is to have somethnig I can drive a bit this summer then work on over the winter. I may go look at it on Friday evening or Saturday if the seller is available. I will say from looking at the pics that the car does not look to be messed with much, but i'm not keen on buying if I don't know whether or not the mtr is stuck, so I'd have to get them to let me try to turn it. It kind of is a holy grail when you find something that hasn't been chopped up, modded, etc. The good part is also that one can buy a lot of stuff for these due to the repro market. And i absolutely love the color combo.

and of course, a 2 bbl is not the same as a 4 bbl, even if you change the intake and carb. 4 bbls make for really nice daydreams.

Indy_68_S

Hey mdh...
Here's some pics of mine fir ref....after sitting for 18+ yrs in barns/sheds/etc.
Its a mostly untouched/orig non-A/C PS PB 4bbl car w/HD cooling that showed ~100K when I parked it (but I now think this meant ~ 200).




click for big

Most of this you prolly already know, but....
- Take a ratchet/bar w/a 1-1/8" socket to turn the motor at the crank bolt.
- Look for any evidence of repairs to the lower quarters/lower front fenders. These are the typical rust areas and replacement quarters are a pain for '68s.
- Inventory all of the trim - $$ to replace
- Look for stuff/receipts in the glovebox/console

I am intrigued by this car and wish 1. it was closer and 2. I had a place for it! Rust free, or nearly so, 68 'verts are rare...particularly in the midwest/east. I still say that the real miles are at least 116K. Even if it sat since 1983 that's 15 years on the road.

Keep us posted!

mdh157

most of the '60s cars are rotboxes in the east as well....trust me, i've been looking. Of course, we have either basket cases or fully restored here for the most part. This car (rust-wise) seems like it might be the exception. I will know for sure if/when I look at it. I have a pic of inside the trunk and you can't see daylight through the qtrs!

And i just thought of something....if I was to rebuild the mtr I could have ti done to the high comp specs.....that would be nice!

The way you guys are sounding you think i should go over and make a reasonable offer.

junqueboi

Can't hurt. If the car is what it appears to be, I'd say the asking price is quite reasonable especially with that beautiful color combination. I'd be all over it if I were close by. Sometimes owners will take a LOT less than what they are asking..especially if you come across in a friendly humble manner & have funds in-hand.

allyolds68

Just my opinion but $5000 is not a reasonable offer on that car. A completed 68 Cutlass S convertible is worth about $15,000 in today's market. Here's run down of what it will cost to restore that car:

engine $3500
suspension including tires and rims $1000
body panels $1000
Convertible top $500 (mat'l only)
metal installation $3000
Paint $5000.
Interior $2000 in materials alone (As soon as you sit in those seats the stitching is going to come out)

That's $16,000 & there's another $5000 in misc stuff I'm missing just because it's so small it was tough to keep track of.

Then add in the cost of the car.

I'm not making this up. I've been living it for the last eight years.

If your buying it to have fun working on it that's another story. That's why I did it.

1968Cutlassfallbrook

If you're really wanting a convrt. then go for it. If the engine runs fine then don't worry about it. Just make sure you get the brakes and everything that is important checked out and take your time in getting it going. Just change the oil and trans fluid and rearend fluid and then another 500 miles do it again as it's been sitting. But you're the one needing to find out if you want to spend what it will take to get it going.

mdh157

well, i have a friend who was still doing paintwork the last tiem we talked....maybe 6 months ago. if he still is and it doesn't need much rust-wise then i can get the car painted in a top notch job for under 2K....prob looking @ $1500-1800 total for the ragtop.....not something for me to do. I think the best way to learn abt a car is to spend time working on it yourself...would love to do it with my boys but they are a bit young yet

still prob going to look at it.....you never know. I did stumble across an '88 trans am yesterday that i really like.....what a blast to drive those cars are. it's a bit above my budget but it's turnkey.

And I agree abt the price......as far as i am concerned, if it was priced reasonably for the condition it'd be gone already.

mdh157

I thought some of you might want to see better pics, so here they are:

http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut2.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut1.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut3.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut4.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut5.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut6.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut7.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...157/68cut8.jpg

gives a better idea of the overall condition

jerseyjoe

Mike, I would agree they may be worth 15k but if you talking about a fully restored convertible it may be a uphill battle trying to find someone to sell it for 15k. I would say 20k would be closer. A 442 closer to 30k. The Olds engine are pretty durable so if it runs and you can put 5k in paint, top and rims I think it would be a nice car. Again I am talking a driver, not a custom painted full restoration.

mdh157, are you set on a convertible? That green one earlier in the post seems like a real nice car for the money. For the last 2 years I have looked at a lot of cars in the area and found 2 hardtops and 1 convertible that I gave consideration. One was a very nice cutlass supreme but owner wanted 15K for it and a very nice 442 and that owner wanted 20k. They were both show quaility but not perfect. I was looking more for a driver quality convertible so I would not worry if it got a knick or something on it so I passed. The convertible I found was a very nice restoration but it was a 69 and I really wanted a 68. The owner wanted 22k for that one. Glad to see you are going to look at. Never hurts to get a idea what's out there. Be sure to take pictures. Even if you don't buy it. Joe

mdh157

yes, I am set on a convertible....when I sold my previous car I asked both of my kids in separate conversaton what kind of car they wanted and they said, "One wth the top that goes down" and "a vertible". So I made a promise I have to keep.

and here is another I found in the Baltimore area:

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/2349157111.html

wen compared to the black car this one is great for the $$ (or at least sounds like it)

allyolds68

Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe (thanks to mcalvo for this pic)

I had a blue one with a white vinyl top in High School

jerseyjoe

Fair enough, I understand. Looks nice, just be careful with craigslist. Does it have to be a 68? I may still have the info on the 69 but not sure how much you are looking to spend.

I saw your pics from the black one, looks like more then a little rust, unless you have the means leave that one to the pros

mdh157

Not set on a '68 jersey......will take anything from a 67-72. There is a '72 on EBAY that is near phila......a 350/4bbl 3spd flr, originally a 3 spd column. have considered it but the seller was really short on the phone so I figured he msut not want to sell it that bad and w/o my questions being answered i'm not driving 2 hrs just to look. know what i mean?

budget is abt 6K....but want to get somethnig i can drive for that or buy it cheaper and use the rest to bring it up to driveable......just to enjoy a bit with the kids and not worry abt nicks, etc, from the road. seen several i liked so far but nothing clsoe enough to really look. the GM show is coming up next month but I'm not optimistic based on what a saw @ the spring show

mdh157

Well, i looked at the car earlier today. Took a handful of pics. Unfortunately, the light was dim in the garage and i forgot my flashlight. what an idiot I am. anyway, here's what we got:

- options are ps,pb,at console,p trunk release, power seat! and power antenna
- mileage is 116K....has a oil change sticker on the driver's door from '77...had 94 K or thereabouts back then. Whoever bought it new obviously ran it!
- top frame looks complete and in decent shape, not rusty, etc.
- interior is very nice....she has the lower door panels that are missing (shown in the one pic i posted earlier). no tears or splits that i saw in the seats.
- eng comp looks complete..i don't have a breaker bar so I didn't try to turn the motor, and the seller hasn't either, so no idea if it will run or not.
- body has rust.......not bad, but the reg cutlass spots...bottom rear of frt fenders and the lower qtrs were done , prob back in the 70's or early 80's. has bondo on the bottom/wheelwell areas of both qtrs. Frame has only sfc rust and there is rust in the driver's rear flr...not bad though. the other 3 flr pans look fine.
- seller asked what my opinions was and I was honest....Told her it would be gone already if it was priced appropriately...also told her if it didn't need the qtr work i'd have made her an offer right there.
- Right now I am kicking it around but it's unlikely as I am not a body man and do not have someone i could trust to do reasonable welding work. I am sure you could get the car for $5000 and possibly even less.
- if anyone has any questions or would like to see any of the pics let me know and i'll post them on the photobucket page.

Indy_68_S

Bummer about the quarters/fenders... That, the floor pan, the 2 bbl, lack of top & it not running drop it well below $5K in my book.

If the engine was running well when parked, it might be fine. Mine sat for 18 yrs in various sheds/barns/garages. Changed fluids, plugs, starter, & threw in an old batt. (and rigged up a fresh gas supply - 20 yr old gas...ewww) Shot a little oil in cyls and turned it over by hand a few times. With a puff of starting fluid, it fired up. After ~ 15 mins of a staggering amount of white/black/blue/gray smoke, it settled down and idled/ran fine.

Fixed a rotted brakeline and took it for a spin!

The seats may look OK, but they're prolly so dried out/brittle that they'd split the first bump you hit.

The power seat & antenna are the best things on that car.....

Just my $.02....

That Baltimore car is closer to a $5K one....And...do I see a real '68 split bench w/ headrests ?!

jerseyjoe

I agree with Indy, too much work needed. If the body was clean it would be another story. I noticed the headrests on the baltimore car as well. I don't know if I have ever seen that before. I have seen them on the buckets but not the bench seat. I would love to have headrests on mine!

mdh157

I spoke to the guy abt the Baltimore car today......has some minor rust on the body and needs a flr patch or pan....it's a 4 bbl car with AC