mdh157

This is for sale near me......I have not looked at it yet so i have no idea how much rust there really is or how the undercarriage looks but the price seems high to me. What do you guys think? It's abt 20 minutes from me.

i'm guessing the odometer has rolled over. Also, can someone tell me where I would find engine VIN stampings on this car?

Oldsmaniac

You coud get this one for less https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...conv-sale.html

The one in Harrisburg may be solid but most likely needs new interior, paint, general restoration. It may be fairly rust free. You can look at it and make offer and see what happens.

Beob

$5900 sounds way high, especially for a car that doesnt even run! Engine ID is near the oil filler tube just above the water pump.

jaunty75

I don't think the seller is correct in the car's designation. According to Setting the Pace, there was no Cutlass S in 1968. There was only the Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme, and the convertible was available only in the Cutlass line.

As far as the value, he's probably high but not outrageously high. According to the Old Cars Price Guide, in #4 condition (runs and drives but needs full restoration), these are worth $4,600. In #3 ("car show" condition), it's $10,350. Now this car doesn't run, so that will lower the value, but if he could get it running, his price puts him closer to the #4 end than to the #3 end, which could be reasonable. These values are all very average, and if the car has other positives, it could be worth something in the $4,000 to $5,000 range. I agree that it's not likely worth $6K as it sits.

1968Cutlassfallbrook

Well how could there not be a S model in 1968 when I have an S model and I have seen a convertible as well that was a S model.

mdh157

I have a Standard catalog of Amer cars that lists a 'S' model in 68 as well.......not that it mean much as I don't see that changing the value any......looks like a base 350 car with only 1 option - the flr shift.

jaunty75

You have a good point. In looking more closely at the production records in Setting the Pace, there actually was a Cutlass S in 1968, but it didn't occupy quite the same place in the Cutlass model line-up that it did in later years. The S models were within the base Cutlass line and were all the coupes and convertibles.

So if you had a '68 Cutlass coupe or convertible, it was officially a "Cutlass S Sports Coupe," a "Cutlass S Holiday Coupe" or "Cutlass S Convertible." If you had a Cutlass 4-door or hardtop, it was just a "Cutlass Town Sedan" or "Cutlass Holiday Sedan." All of the same was true if the car was a 6-cylinder.

In other words, the "S" went more with the body style name than with the Cutlass name. So it was a Cutlass "S Sports Coupe," not a Cutlass S "Sports Coupe," if you can see the difference. Practically speaking, it's a small difference, I know.

For '69 through '72, the Cutlass S's were separated from the Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme lines.

Didn't mean to insult anyone or their car here. Just pointing out how these are treated differently in Oldsmobile production records. It was my mistake not to notice the "S" designation on some of the '68 Cutlasses.

1968Cutlassfallbrook

it's okay you didn't insult

Indy_68_S

I saw this listing 1-2 months ago and figured the mileage was at least a once rollover. I also was intrigued due to it having the "68 only" dark red interior (like mine). Just an FYI.... The correct dark red is only being made by Legendary so you won't be able to find any 'cheap' replacement panels/covers/etc..

Or....you could buy it cheap and sell me the interior (cheap!) and completely re-do it in something ea$ily replaced like black !

Diego

I think your problem is that you're using a faulty source.

Cutlass S is a trim level, above Cutlass and below 4-4-2 and Cutlass Supreme.

jaunty75

I don't think so. "Setting the Pace", which was written by Helen Jones Earley and James Walkinshaw, the former of whom was long recognized as the "first lady of Oldsmobile" and both of whom were recognized as two of the most Oldsmobile-oriented people in the history of the brand, and which was written to coincide with the 100th anniversary of Oldsmobile in 1997, is about as authoritative as it gets when it comes to Oldsmobile history and production facts and figures.


In 1969 through 1972, yes, but not in 1968. It was as I described earlier, a part of the name of several of the plain Cutlass models that year.

It isn't just Setting the Pace that makes this distinction. The Old Cars Price Guide also lists only two Cutlass series, Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme, for 1968, but lists three of them, Cutlass, Cutlass S, and Cutlass Supreme, for 1969 through 1972.

Diego

I'm very well aware who wrote the book, but that doesn't mean it's not lacking in accuracy. For all I know, you could be inferring the wrong information as well.

I also wouldn't use the Old Cars price guide as a resource to make or disprove a point.

jaunty75

I'm sorry, Diego, but you can continue to tilt at windmills all you want. Given the choice between believing you, who has presented no evidence to support what you say, and believing the authors of Setting the Pace, a book for which a list of corrections to their production figures was later issued but which did not change anything about the '68 Cutlass models, I'll believe Ms. Earley and co. every time.

The Old Cars Price Guide is really secondary. Were it the only reference to back up what I say, I, too, would be suspicious about its accuracy. But it's not the only piece of evidence I presented. Nor is it the primary piece.

At least I cited a couple of sources. You haven't cited anything.

Indy_68_S

I think you are confusing some 'official corporate designation' with what appears on the actual car.

This is (was) my front fender.

S_Emblem.jpg

My glovebox also says "Cutlass S" (with the 'S' as in my avatar).

Anyone looking at the actual car would think "That's a Cutlass 'S' " as I assume the CL owner did.

IIRC, all '68 Cutlass convertibles were labeled 'S's.....

Diego

What do I need to cite if I'm speaking the truth? ;-)

For starters, do Cutlass Ss have their own VINs separate from the Cutlass?

At best, the Cutlass S is a submodel of the Cutlass.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

jaunty75

I've never said that it doesn't say "Cutlass S" on your car. I'm just telling you what it says in the most authoritative source there is on the history of Oldsmobile. Criticize it all you want. Call it an "official corporate designation" all you want. I'm just reporting what it says in that reference. No one is requiring you or anyone to believe it.

As I said earlier, I'm not now, nor was I ever intending to impugn the wonderfulness of your car or any '68 Cutlass S. I just thought it was an interesting bit of trivia about the history of Oldsmobile, that's all.

jaunty75

For starters, something more than your word. If you're going to require something more than my own word, why shouldn't you be subject to the same standard?

I don't know. I would guess that they do for '68 through '72.

This is just what I've said all along, and the advertisement you've scanned just supports what I've said. Note how it says at the start of the second paragraph "Three Cutlass S models (coupes and convertible...)". The "S" designation was attached to the coupe and convertible Cutlass models in 1968. For 1969 through 1972, it was its own series.


Thank you for presenting further evidence that supports MY point!

Indy_68_S

Not criticizing.... Just trying to explain why the CL owner listed it that way...

Walk to garage & read fender ?
-or-
Dig down thru volumes of esoteric Oldsmobile history ?

I'm gonna guess the average citizen creating a CL ad does the former.....

Cheers...

jaunty75

He listed it that way because HE HAS A CUTLASS S!!!!


I made a mistake in my first post in this thread, and I corrected it in my second!!!

Diego

With a LeMans, we have all your typical bodystyles, from post coupes, hardtops, 4-door hardtops, and convertibles.

However, Oldsmobile decided to segment the coupes and convertibles (the sportier bodystyles) separately from the rest, hence the Cutlass S designation. This is why there's no Cutlass S 4-door.

jaunty75

I've not seen a VIN decoding chart like this one for '71's or earlier,

http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vi.../vincard72.pdf

but for '72, the last year in which Setting the Pace shows three Cutlass series (Cutlass, Cutlass S, and Cutlass Supreme), the VIN decoding chart has a different set of A-body series. It shows "F-85," "Cutlass Hardtop," "Cutlass," and "Cutlass Supreme."

The "Hardtop" thing is interesting as hardtops were available in all Cutlass lines that year. Seems kind of an odd way to designate a series.

jaunty75

You're exactly right, and this was true through all five model years of the Cutlass S's existence. It was always a 2-door.

Diego

I suspect the VIN card is incorrect. I bet it's F85, Cutlass, Cutlass S, and Cutlass Supreme. I'd have to check the VINs for the models to confirm.

mdh157

Well, i am gonig to give them a call tonight and try and find out abt the mileage for sure. Unlikely i will buy as it's more like a $3500 car, imo. I highly doubt they will go that low and i'm not the type to offer so low as to offend anyone. The car was originally listed @ $11,000, which was very laughable.

BTW, according to my catalog the VINS are different for all cutlass models....with the second to fifth digits being a different sequence for each different model. Not sure if that is correct or not.

i will let you know what they say after i get ahold of them.

jaunty75

Here's the relevant section from the Appendix in Setting the Pace. I'm posting it so you can see where I'm coming from.

The first image shows a portion of the table with the production figures for 1968.

Note how the "S" designation is under the "Body Style" column, not the Series/Model Name/Number column. It's also next to only the coupe and convertible models for both Cutlass 6 and Cutlass V-8.





Now look at the table for 1969. Note the difference. The "S" is now under the "Series" column, not the body style column. It's still used only on coupes and convertibles. I think there is a slight error, or more a misprint, here in that the "V-8" next to the second "Cutlass S" should be more to the left, next to the "Cutlass S" like it is for the "Cutlass S 6", rather than be part of the "Sports Coupe" designation.

Diego

So you're admitting Helen Early can be wrong? ;-)

jaunty75

No, I'm saying the typesetters can make an occasional error.

Indy_68_S

Cool. Just for ref....that car's VIN should be 336678Mxxxxxx which decodes to
3 = Oldsmobile
3 = F-85/Cutlass (A body)
6 = V8 engine (I6 would have an odd no.)
67 = Convertible
8 = Year
M = Lansing plant

Some things to check... 2bbl/4bbl (IIRC, from some previous pics, the Harrisburg car had a 2 bbl)? Any options like disc brakes, posi rear ?

Engine VIN stamp is on a little pad on the lower front dr. side .. Circled in blue in this pic..

click for big
It will be really hard to see 'cuz it will be covered with crud/rust/etc.....

The Jetaway also has a VIN pad on it as well.....On the dr. side, lower main housing ...right between the shifter shaft and the solenoid connection.

I wouldn't hesitate to offer what you think its worth. Its a business deal. There should be no emotions involved.

Keep us posted !

mdh157

so it will def be a jetaway, not a TH350?

If I do go look at it I will probably take some alcohol/rag and a flashlight to try and see the VIN stamp

and any idea how to tell if open or posi? is there a tag or stamping that would be on there?

Indy_68_S

A Jetaway...unless someone converted it to a TH350..But who would do that on a 16K mi car (from looking at it...that was some seriously hard 16K mis!)
Jetaway was the only AT offered for the '68 Cutlass
Rearend will have 2 letter stamp about 3/8" tall on the pass. side tube..
P1010128.jpg
(pic courtesy of 2blu442)
http://tech.classicoldsmobile.com/73.shtml
to decode...Will prolly have an SC thru S9 for an AT car....

Diego

As a Cutlass S, I would be surprised if it had Posi - it's not too common.

billykissell

"So if you had a '68 Cutlass coupe or convertible, it was officially a "Cutlass S Sports Coupe," a "Cutlass S Holiday Coupe" or "Cutlass S Convertible." If you had a Cutlass 4-door or hardtop, it was just a "Cutlass Town Sedan" or "Cutlass Holiday Sedan." All of the same was true if the car was a 6-cylinder.
"

what? i have a 68 cutlass S. it is a different trim level than an f-85 or regular cutlass. even the owners manual designates for 68 a 442, cutlass supreme, cutlass S, cutlass, f-85, ans station wagon.

the cutlass S has a different hood than a cutlass. it is the same a a 442. the cutlass S was never it's own model. it is different than a cutlass however.

Diego

Huh?

billykissell

i don't understand what the argument is about the 68 S. the whole thing makes no sense.

Diego

I dunno - I found it quite interesting and stimulating. I learned something, that's for sure!

jerseyjoe

If untouched the rear will a have a limited slip tag on one of the bolts as well. I just bought a cutlass s convertible and it has a limited slip rear. It is only a 2.78 gear though. If you bring a floor jack you can jack up the rear, put the car in neutral and turn one of the wheels by hand. If the other wheel turns the same way it is a posi, if not it will turn the other direction. Be sure to put a block in front of one of the front wheels.

The vin tag on the engine block will be very hard to see unless you take the top alternator bracket off. Brake clean will probably work better for cleaning the area.

Definately a jetaway unless replaced. From the pictures I would guess it has a 2 bbl 350 eng. The 4bbl was more common with A/C from what I have found. Maybe power drum brakes and power steering. It does have the buckets and console which is nice.

Last fall there was one for sale red/black interior out near Pittsburgh and another blue one in Ohio I believe, that were convertibles and were in nice shape. Price was more around 14K-15k though. There were others around but had a lot more rust on them from what I recall. Good luck, Joe

mdh157

I left a message last night and just got off the phone with the seller.....she thinks it has AC but not sure, no idea on 2 or 4 bbl. The interior is very nice including the carpet. she did not see any rust through on the undercarriage. that's all she could tell me as she inherited the car 20 yrs ago when her father passed away. he had the car for abt 5 yrs and it barely was driven, so she says she is sure it only has 16K miles on it. she has more pics that she will try to forward later tonight.

now what worries me is if the car has been sitting since 1990, are the eng and tranny any good? i am sure she did not try to turn the motor, so i didn't ask.

sigh......

billykissell

http://erie.craigslist.org/cto/2317670175.html

not mine but it's nice.

VikingBlue

What would the difference be between a Cutlass S Holiday Coupe and a Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe. I have never heard of the latter.

I thought the A body lineup for coupes was F85, S, 442 until they started making notchbacks.

jaunty75

There certainly were both for 1968. I'm guessing the difference between a Cutlass S 2-door hardtop and a Cutlass Supreme 2-door hardtop was in the level of trim and chrome and such. I'm sure if there were two side-by-side, the differences would be reasonably easy to spot.