1972 Oldsmobile 442 Convertible Rare Triple Black W27
#1
1972 Oldsmobile 442 Convertible Rare Triple Black W27
Not Mine. Not Sure if it has the W-27 rear end or just the cover. Looks like just the cover to me. Either or, I'm just passing it on.
http://fortwayne.craigslist.org/cto/4218639658.html
http://fortwayne.craigslist.org/cto/4218639658.html
#2
Unquestionably a cover only. Either the seller is ignorant, or a liar. Once again, when one falsehood is exposed, everything said is automatically questionable. I thus have doubts it is even an original 442 being a '72.
Last edited by wmachine; January 8th, 2014 at 04:38 AM.
#8
Hard to tell from the pictures, but looks like the pass side fender is from a '70. Maybe both fenders have been replaced? That might explain the 442 being to high on the drivers side?
Looks like a nice car though.
Looks like a nice car though.
#10
What is a W-27 rear end? How can you tell that it is a W-27 rear end? Yes, I noticed the 442 emblem on the fenders don't match as well. It would be interesting to get the VIN from the owner. I have a book that would tell us exactly what it is. I wonder what happened to original engine and trans? Do you guys think that the car is worth $20K?
#12
1971 W27 cover - Group 5.398 Part number 231090.
1970 W27 aluminum carrier/cover package - same group; Part number 231026.
BTW did you notice that there's a limited slip tag on the diff cover? Makes you wonder why someone would go through the trouble of making this car look so nice on top and ignore the frame/bottom? That diff looks like it has a serious leak, either that or the brake lines over top are leaking...Pretty strong $$ ask for a car that still likely needs mechanical work.
Some of the verts were equipped with glass rear windows IIRC. The rear defroster is the 'defog on glass' or electric grid type we're used to seeing on cars today, and was an option. See 1971 Assembly Manual for details.
Here's a better example
Scott, you may be right about it being a 70 fender, but keep in mind that 70-72 fenders are interchangeable. I'd suggest it's more likely that the builder didn't use the factory template design and just eye-balled it. It's pretty close, but just a tad high.
#13
Yes it would, magical and priceless is some of the many adjectives that come to mind
#15
The Book is from "Car & Parts magazine" It is called "Catalog of Oldsmobile 4-4-2, W-Machines & Hurst/Olds ID Numbers 1964-91". It gives a description of each VIN and code numbers for these cars. Actually it has only 150 pages. lol It is a very special book.
#17
Well, now that the book has been identified, I can say that it will *not* be able identify a 442 from the VIN and any codes. Not for 1972. That book is definitely not that special.
#19
I bought that book when it was first offered(10 or 15 years ago)and I for one was disappointed in it. At least the cover had a 66 442 pictured(my favorite year). Color chips were poorly depicted.
Henry
Henry
#20
???? Your book proves nothing
I can prove that at least one 72 Cutlass S rolled off the assembly line in Ebony Black, and likely there were others. If there was only 1, my friend has one hell of a rare car. Here is a 1972 Cutlass S; model 3687, U code BUILD SHEET from a car that belongs to a friend, and it was factory ordered in Ebony Black at Freemont. It even shows code 19/19 in box 79 (color) of the sheet, and also again as a bypass code in box 107.
Buildsheet-Freemont_zpsdfd34b88.jpg
And by stroke of luck - it also shows PNT code 19 19 instead of -- -- on the cowl tag.
cowltag_zps56e471f7.jpg
You can link the build sheet to the cowl tag very easily with the references supplied.
This is just another example of why documentation is so very important with the 1972 442 model year.
#22
Sans W35 spoiler, this is a nice looking example of a 72 CS convertible that appears to have some sheet metal and components that could be part of the W29 package (which was not available in 71 BTW).
Also the answer to one of your earlier questions about non original engine and trans? That hurts the authenticity/originality of this car especially and since it's claimed to be 'super rare' it really needs that original equipment to command $$$$$ pricing. The VIN of the car has to include either a U or V in the engine code to have been born with a 455. FYI there were only only 113 W30 442 verts built in 72 and if this is one, which I doubt, it has been seriously devalued. If it has an H, J, K, or M in the engine code, the car was born with a 350. A sad thing about 72 W29 442s though - they could be ordered with any engine code except X.
A vert can't have a power top as an option and depending when the car was built, JL2 power disc brakes became standard in early 1972.
W27 aluminum diff cover was never offered in 72 and is only 'super rare' on 1970 models as a complete aluminum housing and cover. The cover was only offered as an option in 70 and 71, but people love the look and buy them. I also have one, but it's simply an add on for my 72 that's not authentic - just looks good.
A51 bucket seats were standard in this car
If the car was produced with all these options it really is a high optioned car for its day.
- U21 rallye pac gages
- A46 power seat adjuster (Left side bucket seat only)
- C60 Air conditioning (N47 Power steering required)
- D55 console (although the hurst shifter could have been added, it was part of the W29 package)
- K30 Cruise control
- C49 electric rear window defogger
- N33 Tilt steering
- U58 AM/FM stereophonic radio (includes U80 rear speaker)
- P05 SSI wheels
- T44 Hood lock
But you'd need a window sticker or original bill of sale to validate all that because all those options could be added after the car left the factory - either by owner or by a dealer.
#23
So my understanding is, the 1970 & 1971 442 convertible could be Id by the Vin number & cowl number, but the 1972 442's converts. have to be id by their build sheets as well. The VIN & cowl numbers alone will not prove a 442 in 1972. That is great information to know for purchasing these cars. Thanks. Maybe the owner of this car will provide the documentation for this forum.
#24
So my understanding is, the 1970 & 1971 442 convertible could be Id by the Vin number & cowl number, but the 1972 442's converts. have to be id by their build sheets as well. The VIN & cowl numbers alone will not prove a 442 in 1972. That is great information to know for purchasing these cars. Thanks. Maybe the owner of this car will provide the documentation for this forum.
Other years have varying way to authenticate them as a 442.
#25
Man, don't know why folk insist on putting spoilers on verts.
I'm curious - if the seller simply offered it as a good condition, good driving car which is not original but has had numerous mods, what ballpark would you think a fair price would fall in?
I'm curious - if the seller simply offered it as a good condition, good driving car which is not original but has had numerous mods, what ballpark would you think a fair price would fall in?
#26
Ebony black
My window sticker shows special paint and at the bottom says Ebony Black/Black, the cowl tag shows 19 B , because of the convertible. Mine's not a 442 but I agree the build sheets and window sticker options will tell. If I had a dime for every clone 442 out there I would be filthy rich. Also $20,000 seems steep for that one, imo.
#27
Kelly Blue Book
KBB has a section for classic cars that would help you there but take into account the mileage may or may not be correct because on the new titles the don't record actual mileage any more. Mine shows mileage on multiple receipts through the years that make me believe it is accurate. If he has that it will help.
#28
FreeRek is a consignment dealer. They have "offices" all over the country. That car is actually listed in the South Bend, Indiana "office".
http://www.freerek.com/pages.aspx?p=330393
I'll bet the "office" is in some guys living room. The real owner (the one that posted the CL ad) may not even know FreeRek has it listed. The CL owner's number shows up over the last few years on Chevelles.com and a number of other sites. He's probably a flipper too and doesn't know jack about the car
#29
Based on that alone I wouldn't touch this car.
#32
It's just off Craigslist. It's still on their website:
http://www.freerek22.com/1972_Oldsmo..._224022610.veh
#33
I just saw the car is now posted on craiglist near toledo, ohio. I've been looking to find a convertible in ohio. I'm thinking of going to take a look at it. I wonder if it is the same owner? I think I'll have to go and find the old ad from fort wayne, ind, craiglist.
#34
I called the owner and the Vin number is #3J67M2M201205. According to Allan's previous post, the original engine in the car was a 350. I've asked the owner if he can send pictures of the cowl tag and the window sticker. Hopefully, he will have that information. If he doesn't, I think I have to believe that its a 1972 cutlass convertible, and not a 442 convertible like he is claiming.
#35
Triple Black 72 Olds 442 Convertible - $22000 (NW) Is this the same car ???
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/4386593199.html
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/4386593199.html
#36
I called the owner and the Vin number is #3J67M2M201205. According to Allan's previous post, the original engine in the car was a 350. I've asked the owner if he can send pictures of the cowl tag and the window sticker. Hopefully, he will have that information. If he doesn't, I think I have to believe that its a 1972 cutlass convertible, and not a 442 convertible like he is claiming.
ST-72 ...34267LANXXXXXX BDY (I'm guessing the body will come back around 434850??
TR 940 .....................19 B PNT
03D.........A51 (Time build code at Fisher body works lansing) I'm guessing this based on my cars build date at Lansing (04A) and the VIN sequence is 208783 and body 442325 A51 is strato bucket seats.
I notice that Frerek motors link is no longer working and their website has no inventory now. Makes ya wanna go hmmmmm??
#37
Nice job, Allan R !!!
FYI, all y'all- for 1972, a real 442 not only cannot be divined by dissecting the VIN, except the W30 "X" motor code models, but the base engine available _IN THE 442_ was the
350....
TWO BARREL.
You read that right. The "422" version, if you will...
Well, 322? Probably 321 actually:
350
2-bbl
1-exhaust
Yet, such a car was a legitimate factory issue 442 optioned Cutlass.
"Anybody else notice how this ad for this car disappeared after our discussion on it on this forum?"
==============
One of the reasons you should ALWAYS copy and paste some of the text, at least, when discussing other internet ads, ESPECIALLY CL ADS, which are notoriously short lived and impossible to view later.
FYI, all y'all- for 1972, a real 442 not only cannot be divined by dissecting the VIN, except the W30 "X" motor code models, but the base engine available _IN THE 442_ was the
350....
TWO BARREL.
You read that right. The "422" version, if you will...
Well, 322? Probably 321 actually:
350
2-bbl
1-exhaust
Yet, such a car was a legitimate factory issue 442 optioned Cutlass.
"Anybody else notice how this ad for this car disappeared after our discussion on it on this forum?"
==============
One of the reasons you should ALWAYS copy and paste some of the text, at least, when discussing other internet ads, ESPECIALLY CL ADS, which are notoriously short lived and impossible to view later.
The M in the engine slot indicates the car was born with a 350 4bbl dual exhaust engine (not the cutout bumper/trumpet exhaust) with down turned exhausts at the back. Just going by the information you've provided so far, the cowl tag should have some of these items on it:
ST-72 ...34267LANXXXXXX BDY (I'm guessing the body will come back around 434850??
TR 940 .....................19 B PNT
03D.........A51 (Time build code at Fisher body works lansing) I'm guessing this based on my cars build date at Lansing (04A) and the VIN sequence is 208783 and body 442325 A51 is strato bucket seats.
I notice that Frerek motors link is no longer working and their website has no inventory now. Makes ya wanna go hmmmmm??
ST-72 ...34267LANXXXXXX BDY (I'm guessing the body will come back around 434850??
TR 940 .....................19 B PNT
03D.........A51 (Time build code at Fisher body works lansing) I'm guessing this based on my cars build date at Lansing (04A) and the VIN sequence is 208783 and body 442325 A51 is strato bucket seats.
I notice that Frerek motors link is no longer working and their website has no inventory now. Makes ya wanna go hmmmmm??
Last edited by Octania; March 22nd, 2014 at 06:18 PM.
#38
So a 72 CS W29 vert 442 would convert to:
3 50
4 bbl
1 exhaust
The part about divining the VIN is a no brainer to you and me.
#39
Ok, Is it a 442? Here is the cowl tag number for the car.
ST 72 34267LAN425658 BODY
TR 970 19 B PAINT
3D A51
The 19 B I couldn't find in the paint codes for 1972. I am assuming that it means in Ebony Black with a Black convertible top. I found this in the 1971 paint codes. What does the TR stand for? I think I still need the window sticker or build sheet document to tell if it is truly has the 442 option? If he doesn't have the window sticker,which I'm pretty sure that he doesn't, Is there any other way to tell if it is a 442 that hasn't been talked about on this forum?
ST 72 34267LAN425658 BODY
TR 970 19 B PAINT
3D A51
The 19 B I couldn't find in the paint codes for 1972. I am assuming that it means in Ebony Black with a Black convertible top. I found this in the 1971 paint codes. What does the TR stand for? I think I still need the window sticker or build sheet document to tell if it is truly has the 442 option? If he doesn't have the window sticker,which I'm pretty sure that he doesn't, Is there any other way to tell if it is a 442 that hasn't been talked about on this forum?
Last edited by rgk1977442; March 23rd, 2014 at 04:28 PM.