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70's didn't get ripples. The rivets look odd to me. Convertibles did not get spoilers. Too early of a production car to be a W-30. Stick W-30s did not get power brakes. Stick W-30s did not get A/C. I seem to recall that even stick 70 442s themselves did not get A/C (I could be wrong here, correct me if so). Need a lot more pictures. I am not impressed by the car.
In 1969 you could get AC with a 4 speed. I've owned 2 different original non W-30 '69 442 Hardtop 4 speeds, both with AC, Power Disc Brakes and 3.23 anti-spin rear ends. I don't see any reason Olds would have changed those options in 1970.
In 1969 you could get AC with a 4 speed. I've owned 2 different original non W-30 '69 442 Hardtop 4 speeds, both with AC, Power Disc Brakes and 3.23 anti-spin rear ends. I don't see any reason Olds would have changed those options in 1970.
1969 is not 1970. Per the Powertrains page that Diego posted above the only manual trans offered with the 1970 442 was the close ratio M21. The only axle ratio offered with M21 in a non-W 442 was 3.42. C60 was only available with axle ratios of 3.23 or lower (numerical). The 1970 442 dealer order for confirms this and shows that the only transmissions available on a 1970 442 were the base toploader three speed, the M21 four speed, and the TH400. Note that C60 WAS available with the base three speed. A three speed car that had been subsequently swapped to a four speed COULD have had A/C.
By the way, why does anyone think this car is remotely related to how it left the factory? The ad claims it has a "455/370 HP" motor, with would be the W30 - so obviously not with A/C and PB with a manual trans. The shiny new repro red inner fenders and wing-on-a-convertible should tell you a lot as well. The non-Delco brake booster and 1971-up master cylinder that doesn't have the metering valve under it tells you it was converted from drum brakes. The only thing this car has going for it is the 34467 VIN.
1969 is not 1970. Per the Powertrains page that Diego posted above the only manual trans offered with the 1970 442 was the close ratio M21. The only axle ratio offered with M21 in a non-W 442 was 3.42. C60 was only available with axle ratios of 3.23 or lower (numerical). The 1970 442 dealer order for confirms this and shows that the only transmissions available on a 1970 442 were the base toploader three speed, the M21 four speed, and the TH400. Note that C60 WAS available with the base three speed. A three speed car that had been subsequently swapped to a four speed COULD have had A/C.
Order sheet also says W30 available only on 4477 and 4487 bodies
Order sheet also says W30 available only on 4477 and 4487 bodies
Good eye. Now let's add to the controversy.
This is from the Aug 1969 printing of the SPECS booklet.
This is from the Sept 1969 printing of the SPECS booklet.
Obviously there was a change shortly after the start of production. I knew this was done with the 1970 AT W-30 cars (in early literature, 3.42 was the lowest numerical rear available, then 3.23 was added for the A/C cars). Should have researched this more before posting. Apologies to Dave Stillman. Should never have doubted you.
Good eye. Now let's add to the controversy.
Obviously there was a change shortly after the start of production. I knew this was done with the 1970 AT W-30 cars (in early literature, 3.42 was the lowest numerical rear available, then 3.23 was added for the A/C cars). Should have researched this more before posting. Apologies to Dave Stillman. Should never have doubted you.
By the way, why does anyone think this car is remotely related to how it left the factory? The ad claims it has a "455/370 HP" motor, with would be the W30 - so obviously not with A/C and PB with a manual trans. The shiny new repro red inner fenders and wing-on-a-convertible should tell you a lot as well. The non-Delco brake booster and 1971-up master cylinder that doesn't have the metering valve under it tells you it was converted from drum brakes. The only thing this car has going for it is the 34467 VIN.
I don't think it is related, however, Pettrix asked for thoughts for his friend. A common car salesman tactic is to claim stock restoration even when obviously not, hoping to get away with it on the ignorance of the buyer knowing that model, and thus getting all sorts of shortcuts/make-works justified as supposedly factory condition and being questioned less. When one realizes the extent the car has been screwed with, one's next question is "ok, what else did you screw up?" and the next after that is "why are you charging non-molested original price?" I was pointing out incorrect stuff hoping to imply a "run, don't walk, away from this car" advice.
In 1969 you could get AC with a 4 speed. I've owned 2 different original non W-30 '69 442 Hardtop 4 speeds, both with AC, Power Disc Brakes and 3.23 anti-spin rear ends. I don't see any reason Olds would have changed those options in 1970.
The only reason I could see is that the choice of gears was restricted to 3.42, which Olds deemed incompatible.
But the chart could be outdated, with updates that corrected some things....? Take a look at the 3-speed and it had a choice of several gears plus the option of AC.
Addendum: Seems this was addressed already.
Last edited by Diego; Feb 6, 2021 at 02:26 PM.
Reason: addendum
The rivets appear to have been installed from the bottom, which is an allowed option at the factory in the Product Information Manual.
Originally Posted by cherokeepeople
shouldn't it also have an open face alternator?
That's because it has an aftermarket one-wire alternator. Note the cap over the terminals where the plug would go. FYI, the washer tank is on the wrong side also.
I bought a 1970 442 convertible with 4-speed and A/C in 1973 and had it for 30 years. I wrote to Helen Early who furnished me with the dealer invoice for the car. She had hand-cut the dealer prices from the invoice.
The invoice confirmed the car was built with Air Conditioning. The rear rear axle ratio was 3.23.
If you list your criteria and budget, there's probably more Olds people that would sell their car "off the record and books" so to speak. Listing cars can be a hassle and auctions cost the buyer and seller from thousands to tens of thousands of fees. Not to mention the potential grief and bs on the boards. Just my .02
I agree. I bought my 442 a few years ago by placing an ad for what type of car i wanted & had several responses & soon after made a good deal for both of us.
There's no way to know from 5 pictures on the internet. The car is jacked up, and I think anyone who values a car being the way it should be should walk. I would not buy it.
IF it's numbers matching, and there's the ability to put stuff back to original, I'd pay 20 for it, but the people selling it will laugh at that like I'm the screwed up one. However, I'm cheap and knowledgeable, and people at Mecum are neither.
While reading this thread, it reminded me of the 70-442 W30 vert / 4 speed for sale at the same upcoming Mecum Glendale auction. 1 of 96, so on and so on. Is this car known amongst Olds experts of 1 of the 96? Only curious.
This is from the Aug 1969 printing of the SPECS booklet.
This is from the Sept 1969 printing of the SPECS booklet.
Obviously there was a change shortly after the start of production. I knew this was done with the 1970 AT W-30 cars (in early literature, 3.42 was the lowest numerical rear available, then 3.23 was added for the A/C cars). Should have researched this more before posting. Apologies to Dave Stillman. Should never have doubted you.
Personally, that is a PLUS as it's a modification to make it safer and better brakes is something that many old muscle cars are lacking. As long as they were done CORRECTLY, 4 wheel discs are a nice upgrade.
Joe P the document that you posted in #6 and #10 would you be able to forward or post the document in full for me ?
It's a PDF. PM me with your email address and I'll send the file. As we've shown above, it's an early printing and doesn't reflect the correct availability of some options that were made available later in the model year.
