Toocool

Feeling a little frustrated right now. I just rebuilt the 4 wheel drum brakes on the Vista Cruiser, not real happy. I haven't driven a car with 4 wheel drum brakes in 30 years so I find it is different and maybe I need to do more work. There is a lot of pedal travel, seems like the pedal goes down a long way. The car stops but wont lock the wheels no matter how hard I push on the pedal.
All four wheel cylinders were leaking, I replaced the front wheel cylinders, front hoses, new shoes, new spring and hardware kits and inner and outer bearings. Also rear shoes, rebuilt the rear wheel cylinders (new ones not available). I didn't have the drums turned, they were nice and smooth.
I have a slight pull to the left when braking, I may need to adjust them a little. If I adjust them all a little the brake pedal should come up a little.
I'm not sure the master cylinder isn't bad, I may need to replace it too.
These are power drum brakes.

73aussie455

Adjust the shoes up until they JUST touch the drums when you turn the drums. The shoes should ever so slightly drag when you turn the drums.

This will (should) take the free movement out of the pedal as you wont be taking up the free play to move the shoes to the drums.

Sounds like you may have to bleed the system again. Any air in the brake system will compress as you put pressure on the pedal and you wont be able to get pressure through the hydraulic fluid to the wheel cylinders. This maybe why you cant lock them up with the pedal.
Make sure you bleed the wheel cylinder farthest away from the master first, and the closest one last, and look for leaks in the entire braking system.
Hope this helps.

oldcutlass

X2 adjust the shoes and make sure the system is bled.

VC455

If the master were bad you would have a slowly sinking brake pedal.

If readjusting the shoes and rebleeding does not enable you to lock up the rear wheels, check the line pressure to see if you need to have the booster repaired or replaced.

mrolds69

You never really said if you bled them or not, or if there were problems bleeding them. In any event, the hoses collapse internally, especially the rear hose. They are small $ and you should have done or do them if they have never been replaced.

Toocool

I did replace all the hoses. I bled them several times, got clear fluid after a while. Started at the right rear, then left rear then right front then left front. It took a while to get fluid to the right rear but after going over them several times it seemed like there was clear fluid from them all. I just adjusted them again, they were pretty loose and will bleed them again tomorrow.

oldcutlass

Also note that brand new shoes need to break in.

redoldsman

Did you bench blood the master cylinder?

Toocool

I think this is a lot of the problem but I'm still going to bleed them more today.
I didn't replace the master cylinder

jcdynamic88

i believe you should readjust them before bleeding,don't be afraid to adjust new shoes a little tighter than you would old ones

oldcutlass

The pedal will go down towards the floor while slowly increasing brake pressure the closer it gets. You should still have a couple of inches when the pedal is pushed all the way with the engine running and in neutral/park.

jaunty75

That, and a phlebotomy, too!

JohnnyBs68S

Drums are self-adjusting. Of course, if they are so loose that they don't bite when you hit the brakes, they won't adjust, so they have to be manually set close to begin with. Once they bite, driving forward and backwards ~10 times while applying brakes in both directions usually snugs them up nicely.

joe_padavano

The previous posts have covered most of the potential issues. Keep in mind that if the shoes are not arced to match the radius of the drum, there will be only a small contact patch initially. This causes poor braking force. As the brakes wear, the shape of the lining will better match the drum and improve braking performance, but you will have to ensure the brakes are adjusted to compensate for the wear. Of course, this uneven wear also shortens lining life.

redoldsman

I took typing in high school and use a computer every day and still can't type. I have to laugh at myself on this one. With my typing I should improve my proof reading efforts.

Toocool

I adjusted them all again and bled them several times again, it stops much better but the pedal still seems to go down farther than I think it should. Like I said before I haven't driven a car with drum brakes in 30 years or so, maybe they are OK. The pedal isn't soft and doesn't sink down. I think its OK for now, I'm going to leave it alone for now.

oldcutlass

Is the pedal all the way up when released? If the power booster was changed, the clevis may not have been adjusted to ensure the correct pedal position.

joe_padavano

My money is on one of two causes. Either the shoes are not arced properly to match the drums or there is still air in the system. Air in a system that is otherwise not leaking will not cause the pedal to go to the floor. It only results in excessive travel until the air bubble gets compressed. If the shoes are not arced, the brake force will deflect them to fit the drum, causing additional pedal travel. As for adjusting, you should adjust the brakes until the wheel and drum drags slightly as you turn it.