Now that I've corrected the issue with the wrong brake shoes on the wrong sides, it seems I have a new symptom with the rear brakes on my '72 Supreme.

I took it for a drive yesterday and after about 30 minutes I started to feel a vibration when I would come to a stop. The longer I drove it, the worse it seemed to get, with some minor brake noise, but nothing horrfic. I stopped at the grocery store to grab something real quick, and the rear brakes were barely warm. When I went to leave, it felt like the brakes were slightly locked up, but after it set for a couple minutes, I didn't feel any lockup. When I got home, I let it set for about 5 minutes and went for a quick spin around the block and it seemed like it was better. I gave it a couple hard stops for good measure, and she stopped good with no issues, and I didn't hear any brake noise, so I thought all was good, but no such luck.

I drove it again today and I still have the same issue. Again, it only does it after I've driven it long enough for the rear brakes to warm up, and I can feel the vibration at around 30 mph and below. No issues above that speed, and no issies when they're cold.

Should I replace the shoes, drums and hardware, or is it something else?

 

Make sure your wheels are spinning and the brakes are not dragging. The issue of a vibrating pedal is the description of warped drums and they may need to be trued.

 

Wheels spin freely. If the drums were warped, would I notice the vibration all the time, or only when the brakes are warm, and why do you suppose this started only after I fixed my incorrectly installed shoes?

 

You need to check for dragging brakes when they are warmed up. Drum/s were warped when they heated up due to the wrong parts placement.

 

Something that happened to a Jeep of mine once, my ex-wife was conned into replacing the rear brakes by a local service station and they didn't get the twist locks back on correctly so the shoes were scraping against the inside of the drums. I was pissed about the whole incident, but I fixed it myself. I know you have bled the brakes, but the brakes getting hot can also cause any air in the system to expand and cause the brakes to rub. It happened on my Ram 1500 after 130k miles with the factory brakes so the system had never been molested in any way.

 

Ok I'll check when they're warm. If the drums are warped, would I notice the vibration all the time, or only when they're warm?

 

I'm double sure the twist locks are correct, and besides, I'm not hearing any scraping at low speeds.

 

When you step on the pedal, cold or warm.

 

Hmmm...I only feel it when they're warm. Could it be more noticeable when they're warm?

 

Yes. Referred to as thermal expansion, nearly ALL metals expand when heated & contract when cooled. You're likely w/in that area/condition of finding your 'happy space' during break-in.

 

So it's normal and I should just let it play out?

 

I didn't say it was normal. Normal would imply the brakes were done correctly (normally) - they were not, you had to 'fix' your initial 'issue'. So, what's 'normal' is difficult to say at best. Myself, I'd put more miles on the brakes & revisit.

 

Gotcha...so if I understand correctly, the improper installtion caused the brake shoes to wear uneven, and now I should just wait for them to wear correctly to the drums?

 

That's my SWAG. The other culprit would be warped drums; yet, as Eric pointed out I'd also think the vibration would occur both cold & warm.

 

Ok...I'll see how it goes

 

Question Norm...it's your SWAG that the shoes wore unevenly due to my oversight on the previous shoe installation, correct? If that were the case, and the drums aren't warped, then wouldn't the drums only ride on the hypothetical "high" spots of the brake shoes? And if that were the case, then theoretically, I wouldn't have any vibration because the drum cannot "ride" the hypothetical uneven wear of the shoes, correct? Because the drums cannot "expand" and "contract" to match the hypothetical uneven wear of the shoes, correct?

 

Dave - Did you install a completely new set of shoes on both the RH & LH sides or did you use the shoes which you installed incorrectly & simply swapped L>R & R>L? Because if you performed the latter, you most likely already had ill-formed misaligned shoes as the result of the initial incorrect installation of (if I recall correctly) two leading shoes on the LH side & two trailing shoes on the RH side? Either case, if you used the original incorrectly installed shoes, I 'suspect' (this is a SWAG) those shoes already had an ill-formed (misaligned) wear pattern to them & now you're expecting them to find (follow) a new wear pattern. The drums themselves certainly can't be expected to expand &/or contract, but swapping already misaligned (previously 'worn') shoes from one side to the other I'd expect those shoes to be riding (wearing) unevenly right out of the gate. If you installed completely new trailing shoes and leading shoes I think you might not expect to have any vibration(s) unless (again as stated by Eric) the drums are warped.

 

Wow...that's a lot to digest...got a glass of milk to wash that all down?...lol.
Seriously though, point taken. In the interim, should I ride the brakes easy until they wear in? (And yes, I did perform the latter operation you mentioned above.)

 

Myself, I'd take the opportunity to 'modestly' "ride" the brakes 'lightly' over a week or two then revisit. Nothing I don't believe is to be gained by riding them hard and expecting to 'jam' them into a new wear pattern.

 

Actually, if you could answer the first part of my question that's not all that difficult to digest.

 

See my added closing in parentheses to post #18 above.

 

Well, that's good intel, then. You're expecting previously misaligned shoes to find a new wear pattern (on different drums I'll add) as the result of that swap.

 

If the old, incorrectly-installed brake shoes are giving you concern, just go to the store, buy some new ones, and put them on. If you still have vibrations, you'll know it's not the shoes. If the vibrations are gone, you'll know what the problem was and will have fixed it.

While I could be wrong, I doubt you drove the car long enough with the shoes installed incorrectly to have damaged the drums in any way.

 

I changed both sides at different intervals. Driver side was about 2K miles ago, and passenger side was about 4K miles ago.

 

OK, this is new information. So when you replace rear brake shoes, you DON'T do both sides at the same time? I wouldn't do that. I've always replaced brakes shoes (and replaced everything else as well) on both sides at the same time whenever I do a brake job. I always want both sides the same in every way.

 

I know, but when we did the passenger side the driver side was good with plenty of lining left. (Hindsight is 20/20)

 

Short of any previous misgivings related to the braking system prior to your ownership, there occurs a time when you might consider a full brake job on the rear e.g. new drums, springs, hardware, shoes, etc. Replacing one set of shoes on the RH side because it demonstrates significant amounts of wear compared to the other LH side speaks to a previous brake issue (of some type) i.e. parking cable, drum, etc. Sometimes it's better to bite-the-bullet (complete brake job) than to hobble together a malformed remediation. I admire your proactive maintenance sometimes the learning experience(s) can get costly (I've been there). Good Luck, buddy!

How many total miles on your car? Brake drums have a life somewhere between ~150K - 200K miles (depending on driving habits, of course).

 

This right here would have caused me some consternation. Why did the two sides wear unevenly? Presumably at some point the shoes on each side were new at the same time, so something caused one side to wear at a different rate than the other.

One guess is that the brake shoe adjuster wasn't working properly on the side that had more lining left and failed to keep the shoe as close to the drum as it should have as the lining wore away. So that side wore less. It might not have been enough to make a noticeable issue with the car's braking, but it still suggests a problem.

How long ago was the most recent shoe replacement done, and, just out of curiosity, who's "we?"

 

I think it's "cobble" together, not hobble.

I do like "malformed remediation." I guarantee that that phrase has never before appeared on classicolds!

 

Ooops...

 

They weren't worn unevenly, they were chipped and I had chunks of lining in the drum. Driver side was fine at the time. "We" is my buddy and I. Most recent shoe replacement was done on the driver side about a year ago by myself.

 

117,706 Norm.

 

I am continually impressed with the resilience of the brake systems on these old cars.

When I acquired my 1977 Toronado back in 2021, which had about 80,000 miles on it, the first thing I did was check over and re-do the brakes. There were no noticeable braking issues, but there were certainly problems when I removed the rear drums. One of the return springs on the left side was simply broken in two and had fallen to the bottom of the drum, so that shoe (the front one) did not at all fully retract when the brake pedal was released. The loose spring pieces never made any sound while the car was moving, and the car stopped just fine with a firm pedal.

Here’s a photo of what the left side looked like after I removed the drum. Note the condition of the adjuster at the bottom. I can pretty much guarantee that that thing, as rusted as it was, hadn’t adjusted anything in many years. The right side adjuster was the same.





I would hazard a guess that these brake components were all original and still on the car after 44 years. You know how I knew? Also rattling around inside the drum was a “Jimmy Carter for President” pin-on button!


Here’s what it looked like after all the new hardware was installed. I replaced the drums as well as I am certain that those were also original.







My other experience with brake system resilience concerns my 1973 Delta 88, which I acquired in 2023 with 61,000 miles on it. When I went to service the brakes, I again assumed I was looking at the original brake hardware. 60,000 isn’t all that many miles, so it’s not unreasonable to think that this could have been the original brake hardware.

Again, the car stopped just fine with a firm pedal.

Here’s a photo of the left rear as it looked originally. Still a bit of lining left, but, again, look at the adjuster. Rusted solid.











Here’s what it looked like after the servicing. Included new wheel cylinders.







For the sake of completeness, here's the before and after on the front brakes on the '73. Check out the "before" photos. Can you say "rust?" Yet, as I said, the car stopped fine and made no noise.


Before, left and right sides.







Afterwards, with new wheel bearings (which you can't see) and new dust caps! I do like how removing the rotors requires that you remove the wheel bearings, which forces you to look them over and repack them as well. I put in new bearings on both sides even though the originals didn't look bad. I kept the originals as souvenirs. (Of what, I don't know!)






I didn't have to do any work on the front brakes on the '77 Toro. Included with the car were some service receipts showing that front brake work had been done about a year earlier. I looked the front brakes over, and they looked fine.

 

Well that's interesting. But still, I would have replaced the shoes on both sides. In fact, isn't it the case that, when you buy new brake shoes, you get a full set (for both sides) without even asking? I don't think you can buy a set of just two brake shoes for just one side. That right there suggests that the thing to do is to replace both sides whenever doing any shoe replacement.

I went to the Rockauto website just now, and they show about a dozen options for brake shoes for a '72 Cutlass. Every single one of them shows four brake shoes in the image, two for each side.

Here's what you get in the Bosch kit. Two front shoes and two rear shoes.

 

Truth. Great photos nice work.

Now that's funny.

 

Thanks for the info. If I replace the shoes, I want to go with AC Delco gold.. Part # is 17242R but it says they're for a 4 door base Cutlass. They are the correct width (2"). Will they work for my Supreme?

 

I don't know. You could get both and compare. Order the ones you want and compare them directly to what's on your car. If they're the same size, I don't see why they wouldn't work. If they're not the same size, return them and get what they say is correct.

I've never worried greatly about the brand of brake shoes I put on my cars. If they fit properly and stop the car OK, I don't worry about it. Even the house brands like Duralast at Autozone or "Brakebest" at O'Reilly would be fine with me.

Note in my photos above that no brand is visible on the new brake shoes on the '77, but, on the '73, "Bendix" is clearly visible. They're not Delco, but the car stops!

 

If you only replaced one side, how did the shoes wind up in the wrong positions?

 

Good point. Two small shoes on one side and two large shoes on the other suggests that they were all replaced at the same time.

 

Thanks. It's always very satisfying to return something like these brake systems to fully-functioning condition.

I didn't mention that, on the '73, I also had to replace some of the rear brake lines because the old lines were frozen solid to the wheel cylinders, and all I accomplished by trying to loosen the nut was to twist the brake line. All of the front brake lines as well as the proportioning valve and master cylinder were replaced as well.

One thing I could not replace was the vacuum booster. I just could not find a new one. They were different sizes on these cars depending on the options on the car and so forth, as I found out after ordering several that were supposed to fit but didn't. Fortunately, the original one, which looks also to be 50+ years old, still works fine. I guess that if it ever failed, I would have to have it rebuilt or find a good used one.

Here's the new MC on the old booster. I should have cleaned it up and painted it. But that would destroy the "patina!"