borgerding

I'm trying to figure out what the correct Master Cylinder is for my 63 Cutlass.
I have original drums on all wheels and the factory "Kelsey Hayes" bellows type power assist on the inside of firewall.

I was having general brake issues and decided to go ahead and redo most of the brake system, including ordering a rebuilt MC from Kanter.
(I sent back my orig. MC for core.)

The MC I received from Kanter has a 1" bore, but my Olds service manual indicates the MC for power brakes is a 1 1/8" bore? This is to compensate for the shorter pushrod stroke on the factory power brake setup.

My problem is that Kanter shows (1) MC for both manual and power brakes, and it us the one they sent me, (with the 1" bore). I cannot find any info anywhere on the 1 1/8" MC. Its supposedly discontinued?

I didnt think to measure my orig. MC before sending it back for core, but Kanter claims that it was a 1" bore.

My questions are;

Will this rebuilt MC from Kanter work properly with my power brake setup?

If not, is there another MC available which will?

Is there a MC from a different vehicle which might swap out?

Is there an aftermarket MC/booster setup which will work, (and fit in my small engine compartment?)


Thanks,

joe_padavano

The 1" bore M/C will work, it will just have slightly more pedal travel for the same fluid volume moved. The Fairmont M/C is a popular choice for those who want a dual circuit M/C upgrade for safety, since the outlet ports are on the passenger side of the M/C to clear that diagonal brace in the engine compartment. There is no easy firewall-mounted booster since there just isn't any room. Frankly, my 62 stops just fine with the manual brakes.

borgerding

Thanks Joe,

Its my understanding though, that the stroke is shorter on that particular master cylinder, (the one used with the power assist.) This is why they used the larger bore, to make up the difference.

At the end of the day, do you think this matters?

Are there any other advantages to the Fairmont MC, besides safety?


Hopefully I'll be able to test it out real soon, after I finish up some related preventative maintenance/surgery; ie, replacing brake lines/springs/ hardware/etc.


A brief brake history;
- All of this started because the car has never stopped well. It had poor braking performance when I bought it and I noticed that at least 1 of the rear drums was binding up when braking, and not fully releasing. In conjunction with this, I found that the brake pedal had a slow return.

(FYI: I investigated the booster, and it all appears to be functioning properly. I have good vacuum, and no leaks.)


Thanks again,

David

62 Cutlass Convert

I have a 62 Cutlass with manual brakes and I am looking at upgrading to a Scarebird front disc setup. This uses a 78-80 Fairmont Manual dual res master cylinder.

Has anyone done this and how is the fit for the Fairmont MC-there's not much room there as you guys know.

Joe, are you using stock manual brakes and do you have any experience with the Scarebird set up.

You have the wagon that came from this group of cars.

Thanks all

joe_padavano

I've been using the stock manual drum brakes with no issues since 2010. I rebuilt the wheel cylinders and M/C and replaced the linings. I have no experience with the Scarebird conversion. My plan is to convert to disks using Honda Accord parts, as the Accord uses the same 4 x 4.5" bolt circle.

62 Cutlass Convert

The Scarebird conversion actually looks pretty good. You use your stock front hub and turn it down 0.020" to fit inside the rotor hat of the 1989 Mitsu Galant rotors that will be used. Part's are a variety with S10 Calipers and pads, Mitsu Galant rotors, your front hum, 1978-80 Ford Fairmont Disc/Drum Manual MC, Scarbird conversion bracket, and stock drum brake wheels will not fit.

What I like is not having to change the front suspension.

I need to find out how long that MC is to see if it will fit. If it will I will start to accumulate parts to convert later.

Thanks

borgerding

In Scarebirds description for the 63 Cutlass conversion, it states that it will not fit 13" or 14" stock rims.

I'm currently using older 14" "Appliance" 4 hole aluminum mags. I'm wondering if these will fit?

I'm going to email Scarebird to see what clearance is required?


Joe,
I know you haven't gotten into it yet, but is the "Honda Accord" conversion pretty straight forward?

What size rims are you using?

Thanks,

joe_padavano

This is why I plan to do my own. The Accords came with 13" wheels and disc brakes (of course, the backside contour of the wheel is different, like the drum-only 14" wheels used on the A-body cars), however the caliper is physically smaller and comes with a mounting bracket that guides the caliper. One of the things I really dislike about most aftermarket caliper brackets is that they are just plate steel without the "ears" or other features that the factories incorporate to guide the caliper. Of course the Honda brackets need to be adapted to the Olds spindles, but that's a pretty simple machined part.

I also don't understand why you need an S-10/G-body caliper on a car that weighs LESS than the Accord.

I have not gotten past the research phase on this, however.

joe_padavano

By the way, I also have 14" aluminum slot mags on my 62, and there is definitely much more clearance on the backside than with the stock 13" wheels.

62 Cutlass Convert

Has anyone checked out the BCCP (Ben's Classic Car Parts) front disc brake turnkey conversion for the 61-63 F85s? He advertises one on EBAY with a 5 lug conversion but will also make one with the standard 4 lug pattern with an exchange of your spindle. Also now makes 5 lug Moser axles for the rear-pricey.

I'm staying with my 4 lugs and 15" Wheel Vintique steel wheels.

I am fitting a Fairmont MC in the next couple of weeks and will post some pictures. Not sure yet if I go with BCCP turnkey front disc or put together a set with the Scarebird bracket and specified parts.