442craig

Hi Guys,

I bought a 4 core radiator early on in my Olds education, thinking bigger is better! Didn't know that it would not fit with the 3 core top plate. I noticed Inline Tube sells a 4 core top plate for $149 but is listed for a '69. Is that because they didn't have a 4 core in '68? Will it fit my '68 442? I am in the process of putting her back together. Is there other options? Should I bite the bullet and buy a 3 core?

Thanks!

Craig

Nilsson

I have a brand new 3 core radiator never used. Is your 4 core new or used?
Wanna trade?

Professur

Adding more cores is like adding more cubic inches to an engine .... you're adding capacity ... but is it capacity you can really use? Sitting idling in traffic is generally when most cars overheat ... and it's not for lack of capacity, it's lack of air through the rad. There are other options to getting your car cool. Swapping for an electric fan setup can give you much better heat handling characteristics, as will tweaking your thermostat choice and going to an electric water pump. Adding Water Wetter improves the coolant's ability to move heat by a staggering amount.

droldsmorland

You can get a 4 core to fit in a 68. I put a 4 core from a 73 in my 68 with out much mod at all. In fact if memory serves me, none (1986). You may need to find a somewhat rare 68 4 core top plate and you can mod the lower mounts or weld new/used in from any A body that had a 4 core. I didnt do either and my 4 core fits well. Maybe the 73 tanks are smaller than an OEM 68?

442craig

Nilsson, It is a few years old, not may miles on it now. I am just weighing my options but will keep you in mind in the end, thanks!

My cooling problem, back then, turned out to be a failing water pump. The car runs great with the 4 core (probably would have been fine with the 3 core) I'm just looking for the least expensive way to make it right. Money flowing like water for this restoration!

442craig

I made it work too, I took the rubber supports out for clearance but the top plate doesn't fit right. I am wondering what the difference between 68 and 69 is?

Octania

Did you try a search here?
I have numerous photos on photobucket detailing the various 67-68-69 top plates, and I am pretty sure they came from a thread here. Although similar, I believe each year and 3- vs 4-core differ as well. I would go get these or at least a couple but that's like an hour long process with photobucket.
I would not run w/o the rubber inserts- they serve a purpose.




Is that a scientific term?
:-)
Is there any data on the effectiveness of that material?
I would venture to guess that if it improves the heat transfer at all, it is by a small to modest margin, not enough to cause you to stagger when you see the results. I guess some folks are more easily staggered, too, eh? I'm gonna stagger off now.

Professur

Well, if you combine this with Md's alcohol and water experiments you're sure to stagger. I personally have used Water Wetter in computer overclocking experiments ... and got (as I recall) about 20% improvement over glycol 50-50. Eventually fried the chip (pentium pro 180) but getting it above 300mhz was my pipe dream and I did finally manage it. And then, naturally, I got staggeringly drunk in celebration.

I've never used it in a car myself, but I've also never needed more than stock cooling. A guy here at work uses it in his 'vette and Challenger. He hasn't overheated either of recent.

wmachine

The 4 core radiator is the same, '68 and '69. The 4-core top plates are different, '68-'69.
If I read the parts book correctly, the '69 and '70 4-core top plates are the same???

442craig

[QUOTE=Octania;638613]Did you try a search here?
I have numerous photos on photobucket detailing the various 67-68-69 top plates, and I am pretty sure they came from a thread here. Although similar, I believe each year and 3- vs 4-core differ as well. I would go get these or at least a couple but that's like an hour long process with photobucket.
I would not run w/o the rubber inserts- they serve a purpose.


I did not search it. I will check it out, thanks. I am planning to install it correctly this time.

So I guess I need to buy a 68 top plate (anybody know the price they go for and availability?) or swap out the 4 for a 3.

Eddie Hansen

Craig, I will be following along, when I started my project I was going with a 4 core rad, I put a 4 core rad in my 72 buick skylark it came out of a big pontiac wagon and actually fit fine cross wise and I used the brackets from the wagon. it never overheated, My olds would heat up in the summer if I was in the bumper to bumper traffic going through the lincoln tunnel, but cooled down quickly once moving, many a time i would be sitting on a scorching day with the heater on , blower on full blast to keep from overheating!!!
I am now planning on buying an aluminum radiator that will fit, I had not considered electric fans? cause I wanted a stock look, but if they are so much better maybe I will.

as for wetter water, I actually believe there is a benefit, I have no personal experience, but cooling comes through surface contact, more contact better cooling and this goes on at the molecular level, think about water tension and look at a glass of water closely it is higher on the edge then the center and notice the tiny air bubbles that will sit on the sides, so a product that changes the property of water at the molecular level so there is less tension etc etc should enhance the cooling properties, it makes theoretical sense to me, but I am no scientist either, have a look here http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...RClCY2T6CF0ZRga explaining the science and the results are pretty cool , maybe even "staggering" if you consider a 45% increase in heat transfer compared to pure water . I have been to a few taverns in my time and am quite familiar with staggering I have no dog in this fight, I am just a newb trying to learn as much as I can....

speed on bruthas....

Eddie Hansen

[QUOTE=442craig;638635]craig maybe search for a 68 wagon top plate as well??? they probably came with more 4 cores then the Cutlii and 442's towing etc ??? just a thought..

I hear you regarding money!! when you get in the middle of the project and needing to acquire more parts it is hard to even "Pay" attention LOL.... but think of the money you saved on the choke conversion LOL....

Professur

Electric fans have a dual benefit. They do save you a couple of horse power not having that big metal anchor planted onto the pulleys .. but the big selling point is that when you're idling, that factory fan is turning as slow as it ever does. An electric in that same position can be spinning at top speed, keeping air moving. Then, when you're rolling, they're able to switch off, easing the burden on the rest of the system to keep the engine from running too cold.


But ... they're not original. They can, however, be hidden well so they're not butt ugly when you look under the hood.

Eddie Hansen

Thank you, more points to ponder... I can't wait to get to the point I have to decide, right now the new motor is still wrapped in plastic waiting for my sorry Azz to get back in the shop LOL.... I will probably start with the aluminum Radiator, painted to look fairly stock, the big clutch fan that I have scored for the 455, and make sure the shroud and seals are all up to snuff and see what happens first, and if she runs warm then decide what to do next.

didn't mean to stomp on your thread Craig..

Sea five

Fusick has "Lower core radiator brackets and insulators"for a four core rad. for 1968-1972

I bought two sets of part number ISS682 and welded them on the top and bottom core supports of my 67 442 and all is well.

ziff396

2 core aluminum cheap ebay, clutch fan, and runs 180 all day in summer with my 455. Knock on wood 4 years now.

allyolds68

Did you actually try to install the standard top plate on the four core radiator? There is very little difference from the 68 four core and 68 standard top plate. What a lot of people don't realize is the core support and top plate were an assembly. The bottom and top saddles are larger for the 4 core. Both can modified to accept the wider radiator. I tried a 4 core top plate on a standard core support and you have to shim the shroud to get it to work. The four core plate locates the radiator slightly more rearward (by about a 1/2") than the standard top plate.




BTW I have a cheap $135 single core aluminum radiator that cools my non-A/C 455 just fine

2blu442

Hi Craig
Since your in So. Cal I would go with a 4 row radiator, shroud and clutch fan. I'm up in Southern Oregon and when the temp is around 95-100 I found the 3 row didn't cut it in my 1970.

Some of the other guys mentioned that you can purchase the lower saddles with rubber inserts, but will need to do something for the top plate.

The 1967-68 top plates are very similar in appearance, but I'm not sure if they interchange. The 1969-72 are the same and do interchange. If your comfortable fabricating you can remove the saddles from another year and either cut and splice metal in the center to get more width. Or take 4 row saddles from a different application to weld onto your top plate.

Here's some pictures of top plates. The first is a 1968 4 row

P8111151.jpg

Then here's what the 69-72 looks like

P8111150.jpg

I've seen people spread the saddles from a 3 row to fit in a 4 row, but it can turn out looking bad. Here's a pair of 3 row tops, the one without the rubber insert has been spread for the larger radiator tank.

P8101123.jpg

Then on to the idea of fabricating something. Here's some mid-1970's top plates that are all wide enough for the 4 row, but some have smaller rubber inserts to fit the 3 row.

PB132083.jpg

P8101125-1.jpg

So... if you wanted to cut the ends off one of the mid-70's top plates and weld them to a 1968 top plate you might have something that works and looks sorta factory.

droldsmorland

Craig Hopefully you put some sort of cushion on the lowers. It will rub the tank and eventually fail.

droldsmorland

Tx all for a decent thread, repeated info for some, some not so.
My 4 slid right in place where a 3 lived. 68 z code car factory AC. I dont remember any mods. Ill have to crawl around it when it gets warmer cuz you got my curiosity now.I finally found a mint 4 core top with the support bracket so I should lay the two side by side and get some measurements and pics. 4 core needs paint to look as good as the rest of the bay. Good info about wagons as I wasn't 110% sure. Forgot Fusick has the repros. Hes got ton of good repro stuff like the elusive 68 only bullet topped front quarter antenna.

442craig

Thank you all for the great information! Sorry if it has been covered before. I do have a 4 core in it now. It has AC and I do live in Southern Cal so I think I will stay with the 4 core. Just want to keep my new engine cool and happy! I am going to have to take a hard look at it and see about modifying it. I want to get the support powder coated so I'm going to have to mock it up soon. I like the idea of welding a larger seat in it. I would imaging a good radiator shop could do it. I haven't welded in years, best to leave it to the pros! The goal is to make it look stock. Looks like I'm in for another "sub project"

Craig

69442C

Craig,

I think a body shop would be a better choice for any welding requirements for the support. Radiator shops do more soldering that welding, at least the ones I am familiar with.

You can buy the new larger support brackets for a 4 row radiator for the bottom of the radiator support and you would then need to decide how to modify the upper support plate.

Brian

442craig

Thanks Brian,

I am going to have to put my head around it an see what it is going to take! Stay tuned!

Run to Rund

By the time the air hits the fourth row, it is pretty hot so the fourth row doesn't help a lot. I compared a 3 row 66 HD to its now-replacement aluminum 1 row and found the latter cools better.

matt69olds

Since I'm cheap, and have access to lots of salvage yards with lots of old iron I used mounting saddles from a 4 core big car and drilled out the spot welds and plug welded them to my core support. I then did the same thing on the top plate. Cost next to nothing but my time, and unless somebody really know what they were looking for it looks factory. With a little detective work solutions to most problems can be found in the engineering of other cars.

442craig

I think I will be doing the same, thanks for the advise!

Craig

gregvm

My advice: go with a QUALITY built aluminum 2 row. I switched my '68 3 row brass/copper for a 2 row aluminum, and never above 180, even in dead traffic w/455 in summer. No modifications needed to the mounts either this way.

Aluminum has gotten a bad rap somehow as a rad.
It's lighter, cheaper and cools better because it's STRONGER than copper for the tubes, thus they can be made thinner and more surface area(the key for heat displacement). Also, fins per inch is important......more cooling fins per inch=better heat transfer.

Food for thought....

Greg

442craig

Thanks Greg!

What's a little more money on the re build right!!

Craig

matt69olds

I'm running a Be Cool radiator with a stock fan (with thermal clutch) and fan shroud. It flat works! I drove the car on Drag Week this past year, even pulling a small U-Haul trailer in the brutal heat the car never got any hotter than 190. The last day was a mere 80*, most of the week it was well into the upper 90s.

jfb

just my 2 cents worth I used my 71,s original 3 core top with new feet on a 4 core radiator with a little adjustment though.