twintracks

Hi All,
I'm pretty sure I have a blown head gasket on my '68 Toronado 455 w/air.
I'm getting tiny bubbles, and brown looking coolant that smells like exhaust, and it does not look like rust. The upper hose is also feeling like there is too much pressure in the cooling system. I've tried replacing the cap & thermostat, and the coolant continues to get brown. I see little bubbles running through the radiator with the cap off.
I know that sometimes you get white foam in the oil, and sometimes you can get exhaust in the coolant.

1. Am I on the right track?
2. What are other syptoms of a blown head gasket?
3. Is there a good way to determine which head is leaking? Compression test, etc?
I'm not afraid to tackle this job myself, but it's been many years.
Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Jerry

bil

It sounds to me like you are on the right track,with exhaust getting into the coolant.If it blew between an oil and coolant passage,you would get foamy oil,or oily coolant.Check with a compression tester,and listen to others advise,it has been a while since I did one! Good luck! ---bil

Texas Jim

yes, a compression test and vacuum test. Compression should be lower in that cylinder that's leaking. Hope you're not getting coolant in the oil- any sign of moisture in the oil? Better check it all. Good Luck!!! In any event, I wouldn't run it too long in that condition. No sense in causing undue damage. Did u over-heat it or anything else to cause the gasket to blow? If now, better get the heads checked for warpage, if indeed the gasket is really blown. Keep us posted.

Run to Rund

steel shim head gaskets + 40 years = replace them!

442much

Check your trans oil and see what colour that is. If all check out, looks like it might be the head gasket.

twintracks

It overheated just once on a 90+ degree day this summer. It only boiled once. I let it cool for 2 hours, and added coolant before driving it again. That's when I changed out the thermostat to a cooler one, and the cap to a hotter one. It could have been then, or maybe it has been bad since I got the car.
It was nicely running, but not highway drivable when I first bought it in March. It needed much attention to the front end (brakes, ball joints, axles, one front bearing, and the bad bearing ruined one front drum, along with tires, and straight rims. All replaced this summer.). After I got the front end sorted, it went 100+ mph a few times this summer on late night solo highway runs. (Had to...)
The engine itself is freshly, nicely painted from top to bottom, which had me hoping it was recently rebuilt. I have no records for the car. It could be that the heads were not properly seated, and/or not properly torqued. Or else, its 40+ years old, 56k or 156k miles, and not been apart. I guess either way, I'll be tearing into it to see what I've got.
I have checked the oil, No moisture, no foaming. Trans fluid also looks normal.

bil

I would try flushing the coolant system,and make sure you get all the air out.Warm weather,you have nothing to lose,you will be draining it anyway if you take the heads off,refill with water to test.I know antifreeze is a coolant also,but for test purposes,you aren't going to get it too hot,and you will get all the crap out BEFORE you have to tear it down.Just a thought. ---bil

66ninetyeightls

You can buy kits specifically for testing the coolant for combustion gases.

Warhead

Do you know how to do a leakdown test?
Does anyone you know, know how to?
Most hobby racers (drag racers, circle track, dirt track) know ALL about this proceedure, for good reason.

100# Compressed air into each cylinder will tell you real fast which hole is bubbling into the water jacket. It will also tell you real fast if there is no issue at all.

Don't piddle with this too long, water in the oil can cause very expen$$ive problems quick, take care of it if you can.

Jim

66ninetyeightls

Leakdown tests are not always 100% conclusive. I have seen them miss a faulty head gasket on more than one occasion. Very often a fault like this won't show up until the engine is at operating temp.

Warhead

Then he needs to get it to a shop where they can give some good advice on the car, or tell him to sell it, because noone can agree what test to perform.

There is water foaming at the breathers!

66ninetyeightls

I didn't say your advice wasn't correct. If it fails a leakdown test then that would be conclusive. However if it passes that is not always 100% conclusive with those tests.

I agree 100% that he should take it to a shop since most shops now have the test kits for checking coolant for combustion gases.

twintracks

There is no foaming in the oil, no coolant in the oil, no foam in the breather and the car does not smoke.
I have seen this before on a '69 Toro we had years ago.
A head gasket can leak exhaust gas directly into the cooling system without contaminating the oil. (It's probably a good sign that my rings are in good shape, too). It's got to be a tiny leak. The bubbles look like champagne bubbles. I am getting water out of the tailpipe on start-up, but I think its mostly condensation. There is no white smoke like there would be with a serious coolant leak, or cracked head.
I'm going to look into the exhaust gas test, though I know what the result will be. You get used to what the smell in the radiator should smell like. Antifreeze. But mine smells like a tail pipe.
No one is saying it could be something else, and that's all I needed to know. I'll start on it next week. I'm still clearing the shop floor of other projects.
And no, I'm not driving the car daily.

Thanks. I'll post up what I find.

twintracks

Update:
I might have jumped the gun on this. The last few days I have been checking the radiator for brown liquid, and nothing. The coolant looks normal, and is staying up. I'm going to try cleaning, flushing & refilling the system to see what I get.
With all of the difficulties I have had with this car since I bought it, I think I was expecting the worst. It seems I've been working through 20 years of neglect in short amount of time.
I bought it because the "big 3"; Paint, Interior, & Engine all were in excellent condition. Just about everything else has needed attention.
Thank-you for everyone's input.
Arrival in Wisconsin from San Diego, California.

Warhead

Better to be safe than sorry.
I took this statement as if you DID HAVE this issue.
Glad to hear it does not.

JIm

jensenracing77

just a note, these kits are only $55 from the Matco man. very nice to have around if you deal with many old cars.

greenslade

In the shop where I work we use a pressure gauge on the rad.start the eng if the pressure spikes it is a good sign that compression is getting into the coolant,the gauge we use has a pump on it,it is mostly used to pressurize the coolant system to check for coolant leaks.

66ninetyeightls

Thats is a very old school way to diagnose this problem. Works great too.

twintracks

Thanks for all the input, and advice Gents.
I decided to take advantage of the good September weather to pull the right door, take care of some rust, remove the non-correct '71 & up side mirror, repaint the jamb, etc. I did the left door back in May, then put it back on the road to work through the mechanical issues I had with a shakey front end.
So right now, the cooling system is holding color, but I cannot drive it far without the rt. door... After I get this job finished, I'm going to try flushing the cooling system.
Got to take good advantage of this good painting weather here in Wisconsin before our other season starts.
Cheers, Jerry

Warhead

No right door?