Hi all, hope you are well - have not posted in a while. One of the two discharge ports on my water pump finally rusted off. Once the car reaches operating temp, leaks all over obviously. It was rusting for the last 3 years but finally gave way fully yesterday. I have only been warming the engine and not driving it. My Dad bought the car in 1970 and gave it to me in 2012. He has passed away in 2016 but told me that he replaced the water pump at least 5 times. Don't know how old the one I have is. Guess that was its achilles heel - not sure why they didn't last long.
My general question is changing the water pump doable for a regular guy? Saw some Youtubes. Do I need to take out the radiator too or just the shroud? Special tools? Is it critical to have a torque wrench?
Also, when looking up the replacement, I take it I need the 5-5/8 hub height water pump because I have Air Con? There is a company called "Flowkooler" that makes water pumps twice the cost ($150 vs. $80) -supposedly better flow and head. Would you recommend the Flow Kooler one or just the stand design? Should I order anything else why I am at it. The replacement looks straight forward just very time consuming.

 

If you have decent mechanical skills a water pump job is not difficult. You may run into some interference with the power steering pump bracketry that requires some disassembly. Having the factory shop book handy to show how all that goes together will help.

When you get the old pump off, check the timing cover closely for corrosion and pinholes in the area behind the water pump. And hope you don't find any.

 

Be aware that the 1970-older engines use a water pump with a larger diameter inlet than the 1971-newer engines. FlowKooler used to sell only the newer version and advertised it as fitting all years. Dunno if they actually have the version with the larger inlet these days.

 

If approached slowly and methodically using a manual a water pump is doable. There are spacers on bolts that hold brackets in place, they're not the same size as each other. Take extra precaution to note their location during removal.

Don't over tighten the small bolts, the threads strip very easily.

Consider getting the pump on the car now rebuilt. If the old pump is original don't throw it away.

Do a cooling system flush. CRC ThermoCure works well.

Good luck!!!

 

Be very careful torquing the 1/4" fasteners that hold the water pump to the front cover. They are self-tapping into that sheet metal cover and will strip easily if overtorqued.

 

Thank you all for the tips. That indeed looks like the water pump. I just noticed when running it the "GEN" light goes on right way. The car ran fine and then shut off after 5 to 10 minutes. Not sure if it was due to the water going everywhere or the power ran out. I ran it again the next day for 20 seconds and it ran fine again. It seems like when I punch it with the gas accelerator hard it stumbled a little and then revs normal but I could but maybe it is because it did not warm up. If I give it gas slowly it revs fine. I did not put a voltmeter on anything. Don't know if I need an alternator or voltage regulator as well or just a connection is corroded. (the battery is relatively new and on trickle charge when not in use). Fortunately, all the parts are not too expensive. I'm leaning on just getting the non-Flowkooler pump as it is cheaper and the standard one has worked fine for many years and never use the air conditioner anymore even though it works.

Dumb question but could a component in the charging system go bad if the car is not run much? I always thought that the charging system would go bad for overuse not under use (except the battery of course)

 

Voltage regulator could get dirty contacts or get sticky. If you replace it the old Delco Remy cover will usually fit the replacement for looks.

 

Hey guys, I am about to attempt to replace the water pump. I took the shroud and radiator out and loosened the pullies. How do I get the fan out please? There is a little coil type thing - do I take that out? Do I need to take the bolts off the fan? Also when I try to loosen the pully botls the whole mechanism turns so I cannot loosen. Please help!

 

You have to remove the nuts that hold the clutch fan to the pulley and water pump. I use a large screwdriver as a pry bar between one of the nuts and the shaft to hold the pulley from turning while I loosen an adjacent nut. Loosen the nuts first, do not remove them, so that you don't bung up the threads on the studs in the water pump flange.

 

Thank you Joe. Just for clarification, I don't remove that little coil thing that is most forward thing (closest to grill) and don't remove the nuts for the actual fan / clutch..

I can keep the fan in place with the clutch and just remove the bolts that connect the fan to the pully correct?

Try to loosen those bolts you talked about now

 

Also perhaps a dumb question, before I try to loosen the fan/pulley bolts, was I supposed to loosen the a/c, alt, and power steering pully belts or was I supposed to keep those tight? I loosened all three and don't see anyway to get leverage to loosen those bolts. Trying to figure out where to put the large screwdriver

 

The coil is an integral part of the fan clutch mechanism. Remove it and you'll likely be buying another clutch. The bolts that hold the fan to the clutch don't need to be removed unless you are replacing the clutch, and even then they don't come off until the fan and clutch assembly is off of the car. Look at it again. If you remove those bolts, all that happens is that the fan is now loose and in the way of the nuts you DO have to remove.

Once again, go back and read my prior post. That's all you need to do. And yes, expect the clutch flange to be stuck on the pilot of the water pump hub once you get the nuts off. You will likely need to gently pry it loose from the front of the pulley. Be VERY careful that you don't overdo it, which will send the fan crashing into the radiator, potentially damaging it. A piece of cardboard against the radiator is cheap insurance if you have any doubts about your capability to prevent this.

 

Thank you Joe - I almost tried to take the clutch off. appreciate it. For clarification, am I supposed to loosen the pullies before trying to loosen the fan/pully bolts or does it not matter? Trying to get leverage.

 

The belts don't matter.

 

Thank you so much Joe! I got the nuts off - I had a large pipe wrench. Now I have to follow your instructions to try to remove the pullies.

 

By the why when you said pry from the "front" of the pulley, I take it from the front you mean the rear bumper side of the pully , not the front frill side, right? Just want to make sure i know where the front is.

 

You are lifesave Joe! I got it off and used a plastic garbage lid. Like you said it did come flying off but luckily i had the lid there. I owe you a beverage or two!!

 

I am on to the 4 water pump screws that are on the outer (front grill side) - how do I remove those without stripping them? not sure where I am supposed to grip them. I need them for the new pump.

Update - they seem to be coming out easily

 

Getting real close ! this is important , for the power steer pump, do i loosened/removed the three bracket nuts, but do I need to remove the power steering pulley ? I am hoping not but wanted to ask first - don't want to screw something up

 

The pulley does not need to be removed. The spacers on the bracket are important. Put each one back exactly where it was.

 

I was able to get the top bracket removed but the bottem left one is hard to pull out. maybe I don't have to pull the power steering off, just move the top out the way.

 

Did you unbolt the horizontal bracket/brace on the driver's side between the PS pump bracket and the exhaust manifold? Should only have to unbolt the forward end of the bracket and leave the manifold bolt alone.

As mentioned earlier, keep track of the location of the bolts and spacers as you remove them. If they are not kept exactly in their original location you'll be in for a "not fun" reassembly with misaligned belts and pulleys.

 

I will have to check I don't remember seeing any spacers

As far as the power steering , believe there are 4 bolts. I took all the nuts off . The good news the top left PS bracket came off the bolt barely and looks like I should be able to take the water pump off barely. I was hoping to gently slide back the bottom left bolt of the PS pump bracket but the bottom left of the PS bracket is stingy and won't move much. Don't know how I would take the PS pump if had to.essentially the PS bracket is too tight too my water pump. The top left of the PS bracket bolts with the top right of my water pump.


Also when I get the pump off do I put gasket sealer on the water pump and the car or just one of the other? Or not at all? Read different things.

 

I snapped this picture from underneathe the PS pump standing in the front of the car - perhaps I have to remove a 5th bolt?

I want to slide this bottom left part of the PS bracket toward me (toward front grill)

So I am getting close to removing the water pump. I can probably do it now if but I wanted to slide the bottom left of the Power Steering (PS) bracket so I am not forcing it in and out. Is the PS brack supposed to slide toward me (Front of car ) easily)? Thanks!

 

There's another bolt from the bottom rear bracket to the block, which also has a spacer.

 

Above are two pics of my PS pump standing in front of the pump with my phone underneathe pointing upwware around 45 degrees toward the steerting wheel of the car. I see a bolt but not sure if this pic help. Joe's pic much better

Good morning Joe - thank you so much - makes sense and really appreciate the picture and the diagram. That looks like an internal Olds schematic - not in the service manual. Awesome.

By the way, I was wondering what you folks do, I can probably peel back the upper left bracket on the Power Steering pump forcefully or I could further loosen the last PS bolt with the spacer - what do you folks do? Do you fully loosen all PS bracket bolts?

 

Replace that bottom bolt. The bottom bracket is held to the pump with the stud and nut on the back of the pump. Look again at the photo I posted. Just remove the pump and brackets as an assembly and set it off to the side. We've spent more time talking about this than it takes to do it.

 

Hi Joe, I understand about the bolt now - appreciate it. The reason why I am still asking is I am gauging whether or not I want to remove the last bolt with the spacer if I don't have to. Sugarbear scared me about the spacers and alignment so if I don't need to then I wont. But from you post it sounds like you would remove the last bolt on the PS pump . I am not asking how to do any longer, but do I need to or would you do so? I am double checking because Sugarbear scared me.

Also for clarification, does the gasket paste go on both the water pump and the car manifold (essentially both sides of the gasket) ?

 

You're making this waaaaay harder than it is. There are two spacers. They are completely different. Large one goes between the side of the block and the bottom bracket. The small one goes over the lower stud on the front cover. This is not rocket science. Forgetting to install them results in pulley misalignment. I don't know what "paste" you are talking about. If the surfaces are not pitted or scored, you shouldn't need anything but the gasket. If there's any question, I use a light bead of Permatex Ultra Black RTV on both surfaces to be sure. And do NOT over-torque the 1/4-20 screws that self-tap into the sheet metal front cover.

 

By the way, your full size car uses the forward mounting position for the motor mounts, so that bottom PS pump bracket is actually retained to the block with one of the motor mount bolts. The large spacer on your car is actually thinner than the A-body spacer in my photo due to the thickness of the motor mount also sandwiched between the bracket and the block.

 

i am so close to getting the PS bracket off. Dumb question, do you have to remove the PS pulley wheel first to get at the PS bracket nut behind the PS pulley?

My big question is do you have to remove the PS circular pulley wheel?

 

Let's try this again...

From this photo, you can see that the pump, brackets, and pulley all come off as an assembly.
1. Remove the two nuts at positions "A" (your photos already show these removed.
2. Remove the bolt at position "B"
3. Remove EITHER the nut and bolt at position "C" OR the bolt at position "D". You will likely find it easier to remove "C" and leave that part of the bracket bolted to the exhaust manifold.

 

i think i know what my problem is. I have all the bolts removed from the PS bracket except one that is hard to get to - i have to go underneathe the car. I have loosened it but not removed it yet. For clarfication, I have to remove all power steering bolts from the bracket correct? I was trying to slide the PS pump without total removing all bolts from the bracket but doesn't look like that is possible.

 

Why are you trying to take the pump off of the bracket? I thought you were replacing the water pump. I stopped counting how many times people in this thread have said to remove the pump and brackets together.

 

sorry joe you are right. i am hot and frustrated. I can't get the PS with bracket to come off. I was able to have to dislodge from the top left bolt, but not the bottom left bolt. I can't get it to budge.

 

If you are talking about the bolt at position "B", that is a motor mount bolt. It's torqued to 80 ft-lbs. Eat your spinach and use a breaker bar.

 

Hey Joe, is "B" the held on by a 3/4" bolt underneath the car where you need a socket and extension through an oval type hold in the frame? I think I know what you are talking about now. I didn't consider that because that B-rod is so dirty I can barely see it. (the B-nut runs parallel with the side of the car, correct?)

 

B is a BOLT, not a nut. It is at right angle to the crankshaft centerline. It threads into the side of the block, passing through the bracket, spacer, and motor mount first.

 

You should not have to go through the frame to access this bolt. I don't believe there is a through hole anyway. The oval cutout is to access the nut that holds the motor mount to the frame. DO NOT remove that.

 

Hi Joe, are you talking about B being at the bottom of where the red circle is? I am still trying to figure this out. I spend 8 hours and cannot move the PS bracket over to remove the pump. Sorry I am really failng on this one. I am just not seeing how to move the PS bracket out of the way.