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Thanks Firewalker. I wasn't sure that I could use just any ol' rubber. Isn't the ignition temp like 250*, something like that? I mean the "plan" is never to get that hot, of course.
Ignition temps are whatever the the material is made up of. Ignition for paper is usually around 400F, or a little more. Ovens go to 500 or more and are a handy way to test, at say 300 for a few hours. While the water in a car could hit 250F I doubt that is the temp at the radiator, as it cools it lower. Temp guns are cheap and handy.
If you want I can ship you foam blocks we get with new parts at work. same material but usually has a split in the middle to fit on door edges and what not.
Nah, don't go to the trouble. I'll think on the material for a few days but right now I'm leaning towards the garage door bottom. I could use that on the sides as well as the saddles. And I think this radiator is a little taller (even though it's not supposed to be) so I don't have much room between the top plate and the radiator.
Thanks though.
You wouldn't happen to have an extra trans cooler laying around? Mine is too small.
Go to a local junkyard and find an oil cooler for a early 2000's ford explorer. That's what I did and have been running with no issues. Just flush it really good.
Go to a local junkyard and find an oil cooler for a early 2000's ford explorer. That's what I did and have been running with no issues. Just flush it really good.
Mac, which dipstick tube did you end up going with?
Sorry dude, I didn't see your post. However, I still haven't decided, lol. I'm going to try the cheap chrome job I bought and if it doesn't work, I'll use the old, stock stick and tube. They certainly have differing depths and full-marks. Whatever I do, I'll have to fill the motor and check the oil immediately and make the necessary marks.
It's been a while since I posted an update. It's been a difficult semester.
Anyway, I've got the trans lines installed, the radiator top plate [heavily] modified for the four-row radiator, the brake distribution block moved to the top of the frame, and the shifter linkage completely removed until I know how to headers will behave.
The engine looks pretty but I just hope it runs. The fuel line plumbing needs to be redone since Copper talked me into a fuel regulator. I have all those parts on order and it shouldn't take long to redo. It will be all hard line (-6 AN) to the regulator and then braided line to the pump.
So, for the pics....
I still have a long list of things to do, including finishing the [mostly, for now] new brake lines. And those lines; from the master cylinder, it's a 1/4" line and a 3/16", yes?
A couple of unexpected issues with the Edelbrock intake: the brake booster vacuum port seems to be on the passenger side rear instead of the driver's side (weird).
This pic from the Edelbrock web site shows there are two vacuum ports on the rear of the intake, one on each side:
My performer intake has two places for vacuum ports on the back of the intake like the pic above.
I cannot tell if you have a Holly fuel pump or not. As a heads up and you may not have this problem, and I hope you do not; I had a Holly fuel pump on my 455 and it died right out of the box on the dyno. Idled just fine and great pressure, dropped pressure down to next to nothing under load.
Thanks Randy. But what? No comment about changing the vinyl top to black? "Boy, that blue engine would sure go good with a black top!" Lol
Originally Posted by Fun71
This pic from the Edelbrock web site shows there are two vacuum ports on the rear of the intake, one on each side:
Originally Posted by Troys Toy 70
Mac,
Looks great!
My performer intake has two places for vacuum ports on the back of the intake like the pic above.
I cannot tell if you have a Holly fuel pump or not. As a heads up and you may not have this problem, and I hope you do not; I had a Holly fuel pump on my 455 and it died right out of the box on the dyno. Idled just fine and great pressure, dropped pressure down to next to nothing under load.
Yeah, lol, I just discovered the other vac port while I was plugging all the non-needed holes. Thanks, guys.
The fuel pump is a Holley. It was Copper's and he had no trouble with it. Maybe it's like a computer component; once it's "burned-in", it's good to go. Fingers crossed, anyway.
I'll have questions about the break-in. I wish I would have gone with a roller cam if for no other reason than I could skip that part.
What if it's gushing oil or overheating or some other unforeseen issue? Just shut it down and resume once the problem is solved?
Unfortunately, the Holley fuel pump has some known issues. Mine lasted for many years then failed after I changed the camshaft and started running higher RPM.
Unfortunately, the Holley fuel pump has some known issues. Mine lasted for many years then failed after I changed the camshaft and started running higher RPM.
Mac. If you have a leak you can stop it and resume brake in. You want minimal idle. But you can idle it long enough to set your timing check vitals then ramp it up. Also run the.vac. adv. Once you set timing. Dont run a t stat during brake in
Mac. If you have a leak you can stop it and resume brake in. You want minimal idle. But you can idle it long enough to set your timing check vitals then ramp it up. Also run the.vac. adv. Once you set timing. Dont run a t stat during brake in
Never heard that one before. Why tear in to the motor after you have it all together nice and pretty?????????????
Running the t stat adds one variable that can be really unsafe. I also leave the cap off and put a garden hose into the rad. You dont want that thing boiling over when you are working the throttle. I have been there. 2nd degree burns are no fun. Od rather take out the t stat than to risk it. I broke in several engines with no issues running the T stat but it took one time and i found out many guys wont run one during brake it and will run a hose into the engine.to not let it overheat and cycle fresh water.
I've read about the hose trick. And I learned last time not to use antifreeze! If this thing overheats with this huge four-row radiator, then something would really be amiss.
So, should the petcock be open if using the garden hose?
I'm starting to think your run stand would be the way to go, especially since you have the mufflers, or are they going back on the Pontiac?. I have a couple short pieces of pipe, I could pick up a couple cherry bombs or something else cheap. I want to be able to hear the motor during break-in, lol.
Also, I was under the impression that I barely have time to start it and run to the carb to up the idle. Don't we need the oil splashing immediately?
I've read about the hose trick. And I learned last time not to use antifreeze! If this thing overheats with this huge four-row radiator, then something would really be amiss.
So, should the petcock be open if using the garden hose?
I'm starting to think your run stand would be the way to go, especially since you have the mufflers, or are they going back on the Pontiac?. I have a couple short pieces of pipe, I could pick up a couple cherry bombs or something else cheap. I want to be able to hear the motor during break-in, lol.
Also, I was under the impression that I barely have time to start it and run to the carb to up the idle. Don't we need the oil splashing immediately?
No, with the cap off for the hose in it the radiator is already open so no need to open the peacock LOL
Now one thing you might do depending on neighbors, laws, and location is to tire it up with the top hose off the radiator and let it flush any junk into the street rather than the new radiator. After a minute or so and you see clean water coming out then kill the engine and reconnect the top hose to the radiator.
The reason for the running garden hose is you are not depending on the radiator to cool the water, but instead are using cold water from the tap, while flushing warmer water out.
No, with the cap off for the hose in it the radiator is already open so no need to open the peacock LOL
Now one thing you might do depending on neighbors, laws, and location is to tire it up with the top hose off the radiator and let it flush any junk into the street rather than the new radiator. After a minute or so and you see clean water coming out then kill the engine and reconnect the top hose to the radiator.
The reason for the running garden hose is you are not depending on the radiator to cool the water, but instead are using cold water from the tap, while flushing warmer water out.
"Tire" it up? It took me a few seconds but I got it, lol. So, a double edged sword here: I live in the country so no [close by] neighbors to complain. But also, I live in the country so my water is a little......rusty. I don't think the outside spigot is softened but I'll have to double check.
The block was, however, hot tanked. As were the heads. everything should be squeaky clean inside. But I reckon you have a good point. Why trust it, yeah?
The engine is in and running. Honestly, I'm a little surprised, never having built a short block before now. It cruises great but idles like my great grandpa with hiccups. Sounds like a vacuum leak but I've been checking and can't find anything. Maybe I'm just not used to such an aggressive cam (.512 lift in and out, 110 LS). It's also, most likely, under carbureted running my 750 Q-jet (idle circuit tooo small?).
What is the current thinking on break-in miles? I've read everything from "break-in the cam and go!" to "nothing under 3,000 miles". I did about a 25 minute cam break-in varying the R's from 2,000 to 2,500, it has chromoly rings, and I'm running 11* initial advance with another 11* vac. I don't know the mechanical yet since I don't feel I should spin it up that high while breaking in. And I'm running Shell 93 octane (and a lot of it, my gosh!). I've got 110 miles on her right now; a little city, a little route 66. I've been keeping the R's under 2500 with a single pull to 2900 after I hit the 100 mile mark.
I could write a long article about this install but suffice it to say, it was labor intensive, mostly due to adding the long tube headers. And I have to say, I'm impressed with the Hedman's. Once the brake distribution block was moved, they fit pretty well, albeit a little close to the control arm mounts. I think I may have even been able to use my old stock GM starter but I had bought a Summit mini just in case so ran with that.
Thoughts about the idle and/or break-in procedures? I'm itchin' to give it what-fer!
Oh, and one more thing; this Champion 4-row radiator rocks! It was a bear getting it to fit but idling in traffic yesterday, 96*, 95% humidity, it inched up to 179* and stayed there. Granted, I don't have the AC installed yet and that might change things but the old rad with the small block would have been overheating at that point.
A properly set up Quadrajet is good into the 11s or 10s, so not a problem. But the Street Demon carbs with the plastic bowls is a sweet option.
I love the new aluminum radiators. Put a 2 row one on my 455 in the later 90s and found myself running around town, without the electric fan even coming on in summer. Huge difference over the 3 and 4 row cores I had built for it in the past, and it was light as a feather and dirt cheap.
Your engine is probably way past broken in now but I would still recommend keeping it below 4000 to 4500 for longevity sake. Thats where you might find most of your power anyway. Its just the nature of the beast with that flow and stroke, but its a ton of fun inside that range.
A properly set up Quadrajet is good into the 11s or 10s, so not a problem. But the Street Demon carbs with the plastic bowls is a sweet option.
I love the new aluminum radiators. Put a 2 row one on my 455 in the later 90s and found myself running around town, without the electric fan even coming on in summer. Huge difference over the 3 and 4 row cores I had built for it in the past, and it was light as a feather and dirt cheap.
Your engine is probably way past broken in now but I would still recommend keeping it below 4000 to 4500 for longevity sake. Thats where you might find most of your power anyway. Its just the nature of the beast with that flow and stroke, but its a ton of fun inside that range.
Thanks Firewalker, I appreciate the input. When I had the small block in and the 200-4r set up well, it didn't spin-up much past 4k. I don't know if the 455 will be different. That small block was a little tired so the TC might have flashed a little early.
Thanks Firewalker, I appreciate the input. When I had the small block in and the 200-4r set up well, it didn't spin-up much past 4k. I don't know if the 455 will be different. That small block was a little tired so the TC might have flashed a little early.
I have run several 350s and they can spin up higher with a little work though my memory is fading now on those. One of hem had BBO heads and went to 7,000 with a holley 2 bbl. The other, with stock 350 specs (not a W31) wound past 6000. Both with 5:00 gears and automatics.
The 455s main torque seems to die off past 4000 on most engines, though for a drag only car might run best shifting about 5000, though the short stroked 425 and 400s can run a lot higher for drag only. Custom built race engines using modified or non stock parts are different animals with different power curves and parts to survive longer at higher rpms.
Lower rpm power is a gift in many ways on the streets. But a curse in a drag only car where deep gearing is a factor and every tenth counts. Those use to 7000 rpm 4 cylinders, small blocks, or high rpm bikes often think something is wrong when they get the 455s and expect higher rpms power there too. Most of them go kaboom rather quickly.
I have actually tested different shift rpms in the quarter and gain virtually nothing shifting above 4000, with stock C heads, intake, cast iron exhausts with short 2 1/2 in exhaust and high flow mufflers, and a 234@.050 Fireball cam. A very different engine say compared to the 375hp 396 I had or the 406 or SBC.
I got torque is not just a saying. Or HP is just a salesman's trick for selling cars. Weight and low end torque increase the flash speeds for the same converter and 455s have a lot more than a 350 at low rpms.
Last edited by Firewalker; June 17th, 2018 at 12:59 PM.
Has there been any idle circuit mods to your 800 cfm, not 750 cfm Qjet? Glad to hear it is running good for the most part.
No, not yet. Which is what I partly meant by under-carbureted. Does that involve pulling out the idle tubes? I understand that can be tricky. I'm not afraid of tearing apart a Q-jet though. What I need is Ruggle's book.
Originally Posted by Firewalker
I have run several 350s and they can spin up higher with a little work though my memory is fading now on those. One of hem had BBO heads and went to 7,000 with a holley 2 bbl. The other, with stock 350 specs (not a W31) wound past 6000. Both with 5:00 gears and automatics.
The 455s main torque seems to die off past 4000 on most engines, though for a drag only car might run best shifting about 5000, though the short stroked 425 and 400s can run a lot higher for drag only. Custom built race engines using modified or non stock parts are different animals with different power curves and parts to survive longer at higher rpms.
Lower rpm power is a gift in many ways on the streets. But a curse in a drag only car where deep gearing is a factor and every tenth counts. Those use to 7000 rpm 4 cylinders, small blocks, or high rpm bikes often think something is wrong when they get the 455s and expect higher rpms power there too. Most of them go kaboom rather quickly.
I have actually tested different shift rpms in the quarter and gain virtually nothing shifting above 4000, with stock C heads, intake, cast iron exhausts with short 2 1/2 in exhaust and high flow mufflers, and a 234@.050 Fireball cam. A very different engine say compared to the 375hp 396 I had or the 406 or SBC.
I got torque is not just a saying. Or HP is just a salesman's trick for selling cars. Weight and low end torque increase the flash speeds for the same converter and 455s have a lot more than a 350 at low rpms.
More torque = earlier or later flash? I should know this but I've forgotten.
Originally Posted by VinMichael
Congrats Mac, engine looks sweet. Bet it drives even better.
Thanks Michael. I'm still working on the drive-ability but right now I'm just glad it didn't frag during break-in! Lol. I didn't mention that the Hedman long tubes sit up so much higher than the shorties (I had on the small block) that I had to cut out my H-pipe. It's A LOT louder. I like that but I can hardly hear the motor, which makes me nervous.
Has there been any idle circuit mods to your 800 cfm, not 750 cfm Qjet? Glad to hear it is running good for the most part.
Nope, it's a 750. I had to look at the venturis to be sure but it didn't come with the 455. It's an early 80's carb from a cab. I need it for the 200-4r linkage.
No, not yet. Which is what I partly meant by under-carbureted. Does that involve pulling out the idle tubes? I understand that can be tricky. I'm not afraid of tearing apart a Q-jet though. What I need is Ruggle's book.
More torque = earlier or later flash? I should know this but I've forgotten.
Thanks Michael. I'm still working on the drive-ability but right now I'm just glad it didn't frag during break-in! Lol. I didn't mention that the Hedman long tubes sit up so much higher than the shorties (I had on the small block) that I had to cut out my H-pipe. It's A LOT louder. I like that but I can hardly hear the motor, which makes me nervous.
More torque means it flashes stall higher, and so can more weight make it go higher.
If you have a wideband use it, if not get one. Also you might want to check your spark plugs to see what they look like, and change oil and filter, if using the same oil to break it in. Now get someone to cut the filter open looking for debris, just on the safe side. On the filters I like NAPA Gold for now.
More torque means it flashes stall higher, and so can more weight make it go higher.
If you have a wideband use it, if not get one. Also you might want to check your spark plugs to see what they look like, and change oil and filter, if using the same oil to break it in. Now get someone to cut the filter open looking for debris, just on the safe side. On the filters I like NAPA Gold for now.
Some tutorials on the Quadrajets should be on youtube to refresh your memory.
Yeah man, I'm doing my homework tonight. I have fuel leaking out of both boosters at idle so I definitely have a lean idle condition. I need to check float level (again), make sure the float isn't saturated, and turn out the mixture screws 3.5 - 4.5 turns (according to Cliff). If that doesn't help, I'll have to go deeper. This carb is an M4MC from an early 80's Checker cab.
Originally Posted by oldcutlass
Congrats Mac, you've accomplished another one of lifes milestones.
Yeah man, I'm doing my homework tonight. I have fuel leaking out of both boosters at idle so I definitely have a lean idle condition. I need to check float level (again), make sure the float isn't saturated, and turn out the mixture screws 3.5 - 4.5 turns (according to Cliff). If that doesn't help, I'll have to go deeper. This carb is an M4MC from an early 80's Checker cab.
Lol, thanks Eric. Good to hear from you
Think of this way. Sinus drip with the carb. Check to make sure the emulsion tubes are nice and clean as well and easy to get too. I would just put new floats while there as well, and maybe some brass ones. Others may see that differently, but I am not a quadrajet junky though I have seen them run great. Check the spark plugs as well and make sure they look OK.
Just do it at your leisure and take breaks and keep it fun. And think LED headlights
Think of this way. Sinus drip with the carb. Check to make sure the emulsion tubes are nice and clean as well and easy to get too. I would just put new floats while there as well, and maybe some brass ones. Others may see that differently, but I am not a quadrajet junky though I have seen them run great. Check the spark plugs as well and make sure they look OK.
Just do it at your leisure and take breaks and keep it fun. And think LED headlights
Thanks for the tips. I have two of these carbs (long story) so I can work on one on the car and one off. One has a few hundred miles on it and the other practically none. I've been inside both several times making adjustments, etc. and they are squeaky clean. I honestly think the idle circuit is simply too lean for this engine. I'll see if I can find a work-around that will serve while I build the other carb right.
Would a lean idle circuit give me a low vacuum reading on a gauge? It was at 9 inches until I realized I needed to retorque the intake bolts and now I'm at 12 or 13 (can't remember exactly). I pinched the hose to the brake booster but no change in RPM. The only other vac line is to the distributor. Wait, no, there's another to the AC can on the firewall. I'll check that tomorrow.
One of the carbs has a removable throttle/trans linkage [bar?]. Can that be welded on? As in, spot welded?
Thanks for the tips. I have two of these carbs (long story) so I can work on one on the car and one off. One has a few hundred miles on it and the other practically none. I've been inside both several times making adjustments, etc. and they are squeaky clean. I honestly think the idle circuit is simply too lean for this engine. I'll see if I can find a work-around that will serve while I build the other carb right.
Would a lean idle circuit give me a low vacuum reading on a gauge? It was at 9 inches until I realized I needed to retorque the intake bolts and now I'm at 12 or 13 (can't remember exactly). I pinched the hose to the brake booster but no change in RPM. The only other vac line is to the distributor. Wait, no, there's another to the AC can on the firewall. I'll check that tomorrow.
One of the carbs has a removable throttle/trans linkage [bar?]. Can that be welded on? As in, spot welded?
Low vacuum can be caused by many things, including the cam.
Its cool you can run one and play with the other, but they may be set up wrong for your 455 on rods, and hangers and more if not changed out already. And you do have your 200r4 TV cable attached and adjusted don't you....Don't know about welding or soldering on a carb but there are some glues which might work, and there is E6000 that comes in white black or clear. Like a liquid rubber, and extremely strong and sticks to most things. 24-72 hours for full bond but holds pretty good after a few hours. Its in most department stores in the crafts sections. Women like it for mending and arts and crafts. It is very cool to play with like playing with magnets which can be another attaching possibility for some things. I have many stuck here or there, and some just in case I need one. Ebay has quite a selection.
March 4th, 2018, 04:55 PM
though I have seen them run great. Check the spark plugs as well and make sure they look OK.
