Hey all...I've been dealing with a belt noise issue for quite some time now on my '72 Supreme. When I first start it up and drive it, I get a squeal from the belts. It doesn't do it at idle, and once it's warmed up, it calms down some. I know it's not a bearing or water pump problem, because when I spray belt dressing on the belts, the noise goes away. Problem is, it keeps coming back. I replaced the belts about 2 1/2 years ago, but I'm thinking they might be stretched, because I've got them pretty tight, and it's not helping. Just to cover my bases, I'm going to replace both belts (alternator and p/s), and I'm thinking of staying with Gates.

Also, when I make my adjustments on the alternator belt, I have to use a pry bar against the alternator and push off the bracket, but was wondering if there may be a different method you all use. For reference, the alternator is driver side mounted.

Thanks,
Dave

 

Hi Dave , the belts do stretch a little over the winter when car is not being used regularly, I would just snug them a little when your going to be using the car more, in PA my car is down from november to april, and i have to adjust or i get the
dreaded power steering squeel, Tim

 

Hey Tim thanks for the advice, but mine rarely sets for more than a week between runs, and definitely no more than 10 days. Also, I've tried snugging them up, and they're about as tight as they're gonna get without getting myself in trouble.

 

Post a picture/s

 

I haven’t had that issue in the 40 years of ownership. The belts currently on the Cutlass are probably 10+ years old and no issues.

You need to properly tighten the power steering belt first, using the lever point behind the pulley. After that one is properly adjusted, then tighten the alternator belt. I do that one as you described.

 

First, make sure all your pulleys are properly aligned and all factory spacers in place. I have found all new belts stretch a lot. I have used Gates, Napa, Dayco and others, all needed 3 or 4 retightenings. I even had a Prestone serpentine belt stretch so much the automatic tensioner didn't have enough tension on my Dakota. There has to be change rubber the last few years. Good luck.

 

First, stop using belt dressing. Belts need to grip the pulleys, that stuff is like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

If the belts are stretched, they might be sitting too deep in the pulley groove. belts don’t actually grip the bottom of the pulley groove, they need the friction of the sides of the pulley. If they are too deep in the groove, they will need to be replaced.

You need to either replace the belts, or throughly clean them of anything that makes them greasy. If you are brave and VERY careful, you can use a wire brush on each belt surface while the engine is running. You need to think this thru, lay the brush against the belt in a way that it won’t throw the brush at you. Position the brush do the belt pulls it away from you. It would be ideal to have someone sitting in the drivers seat with their fingers on the key, ready to shut it off.

Once the vents are cleaned, use the wire brush on the pulleys. Once again, they need to be clean.

 

Where is the lever point behind the p/s pulley?

 

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ustment-sm.jpg

 

As the other guy said you can't have the belts bottom out in the pulley groove. Next their are different width belts, use wider ones if you can find them. If you use them in one direction don't remove and flip around to the other direction. Use a Sharpie and put an arrow on them.

 

Here's the full post with instructions:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...t-loose-51844/

 

How tight does it need to be?

 

So I've formulated a plan...I'm going to remove the belts, clean the pulleys, replace with new belts and follow the sequence noted above for tightening the p/s belt. Update to follow.

 

I also agree with Olds 307 403. Alignment can be a player as well.

 

Just want to pile on I don't think I adjusted the belts on my Wife's Riviera (307 Olds engine) more than 3 times over the first 34 years (260k miles) of its life and I think I only replaced the original belts once. When I rebuilt the engine and trans in 2018 I replaced everything with Dayco belts and have not touched them since. This is her daily driver and even though she retired in 2019 she still drives it at least a couple of times a week. She has put about 6K miles on the new engine.

I have to almost wonder if you are overtightening them and causing them to stretch ?

 

Again I ask...how tight should they be? Is there any way to check?

 

There are actually belt tension gauges available but i think rule of thumb has always been that you should be able to push the belt down about 1/2" in the middle. I have always just done it by feel but I grew up with V belt cars. I would rather start off a little loose and then tighten them if needed.

 

Seeing this in print made me wonder are the belts actually stretched? How do we know this is the issue? If I'm interpreting correctly, Joe P's post indicates that not tightening the belt sufficiently causes squealing.

 

I had a newer Gates correct specification alternator belt on my 442 constantly stretching and needing re-tightening after replacing the alternator, even with the few miles I was driving it in spring & summer. Noticed excessive belt dust on the alternator as well. Turns out it was an ever so slightly bent alternator pulley that was the culprit. I replaced the pulley and problem gone. Haven't had to touch it since. Make sure no pulleys are bent or scarred in the grooves.

 

The answer to your question on how tight is tight enough so they don't squeal.

 

I get that, but isn't it possible to overtighten them?

 

Not really if you're careful.

 

Yes, you will wear out bearings or pop a belt. The correct tension can be checked after you've adjusted and tightened everything up. Push with moderate pressure on the longest length of that belt on the outside of the belt. It should deflect about 1/2"-3/4". If so you are good. Loosen or tighten if it's not in that range.

 

I agree that can happen. I have not personally had any of that happen since I started wrenchng on the car in 1981 - 41 years and never a bearing fail or a belt either pop or squeal.

 

I have been wondering the same thing, too. After I changed both my alternator and power steering belts, they deflect as you describe which indicated to me that the tension was correct.

What I found odd is that when I double checked the tightness of the nuts that hold the fan onto the water pump, trying to tighten the nuts did not cause the pulley to turn. I chalked it up to good friction from the new belts, but it gave me some concern that the tension is too high and might lead to bearing failure on the water pump. The belts are still rather new, so I have not tried it since.

 

Well, I dunno if the belts were stretched, or the pulleys needed cleaned, or I didn't follow the proper sequence on the adjustment for the p/s belt when I replaced it last time, or a combination of all the above. All I know is that I just finished, and after cleaning the pulleys, replacing the belts and following the proper tightening sequence, I took it out for a test run, and I'm happy to report..not a peep!😁😁😁.

Once again, thanks to all for the advice..this forum rocks!

 

Great to hear that. Good for you. 👍

 

Every time I have changed the water pump, I loosen those fan clutch nuts first, while the belts are still installed, as the belts will help hold the pulley from turning.

 

I guess I have never not been able to easily turn the water pump pulley using just a wrench even with the belts tightened. I always had to use the wrench and flathead screwdriver method to keep the pulley from turning.

 

How does following the proper sequence on tightening the p/s belt affect the result 🤔?

 

You need to tighten the power steering belt first. Look at the belt routing illustration, you can see the power steering belt is crank, water pump, and power steering pulleys. The alternator is crank, water pump, alternator AND power steering. If you tighten the alternator first, you don’t be able to correctly tighten the power steering belt because your working against the alternator belt.

Following the proper process ensures both belts are correctly tensioned.

 

I gotcha, but I should have been more specific...I was referring to the sequence outlined in #11 above.

 

Once my 66 Cutlass vert gets out of storage on 4/8 I will really need this.Still need to order belts from Gates I appreciate the help and illustrations. This is what makes this forum so great.

Wayne

 

Anybody???...Bueller?

 

 

Post #11 describes how to loosen the power steering mounting bolts, tighten the power steering belt, then tighten the power steering mounting bolts so that the belt stays tight.

So what is your confusion about this? And yes, be specific.

 

Two front bolts and the nut at the rear of the pump...I'm trying to understand how the sequence of tightening these up in the proper order plays such a major role in eliminating the belt squeal.

 

One of the reasons that I have mad respect and love for you and your car is that you do what you do and love it completely. Mad Mad love for you and your car.

 

The main thing is the process of properly tightening the power steering belt BEFORE tightening the alternator belt is critical.

The order of tightening the power steering bolts is to ensure the power steering belt remains tight while the bolts are fastened. The slider bolt needs to be tightened first, while tension is applied and the belt is tight. Once that bolt is snug, the pump can’t move and the lever against the tab can be removed, and the remaining two fasteners can be tightened.

 

I guess your confusion is the sequence of tightening the bolts?? I interpreted your question as the order of tightening the belts.

Technically, it doesn’t matter the sequence you tighten the power steering pump hardware. Having said that, unless your REALLY flexible, or have some assistance, it will be pretty difficult to hold the pump in position to tension the belt, while simultaneously reaching under or behind the pump to tighten those bolts.