cut123

efi may be my winter project. really cant decide on system. I have eliminated ez efi due to poor customer reviews. Now theres Edelbrock (the fav right now) holly terminator, powerjection 3, msd............ Anyone have one ?

garys 68&72

This response is coming from someone with efi on my 72 Olds and a 68 vette....
Why do you want to spend a couple thousand on efi?

cut123

Well gary i dont think it is running to potential. I have a carb and wbO2. I have run carbs all my life and have it tuned in ok. Still starts pretty hard when hot. I just think with a healthy 455 it might smooth out the bugs. Make driving more enjoyable. Please though play devils advocate that why i posted. My other choices for upgrades are vintage air or seats.

garys 68&72

Lot's here and everywhere else on earth think switching to efi will change a 10mpg BBO/BBC/SMC etc into a modern 25+ mpg 500hp LS motor. It don't work that way.
It's a combination of efi, spark control, cylinder head design, gearing, CR, etc that lends itself to 500hp flowing heads that still generate high cylinder pressures at low rpm.
If you want to do it as an experiment, to be different, or just cause you want to.....fine. But on the cost/benefit side , you wont do much better than a well tuned qjet on a relatively stock motor.

cut123

This is a 11.1 compression big block 373 gears, lots of work done. mpg is not what im lookin for drivability and tuning is what im after.

garys 68&72

Check out the Holley TBI efi then. I know a couple people happy with it for drivability without spark control. Expensive, but if you cant fix carb issues, worth checking out.

cut123

i am kind of interested in the spark control. I will do some research on it. Whay are you running on your cars.

cut123

I guess here is my question. Does the efi make the drivability better? Will the options like spark control and others improve the performance of my engine. I love to tinker and want to maximize what I have in place.

Mr Nick

I have FAST EZ-EFI version 1, and it's been good but I wish it had more features to play with. It's biggest drawback is no timing control. When I purchased it, the Holley Terminator system wasn't even available yet, just features and pricing. I had to do something and I didn't want to wait, so I got the FAST system. My only complaint with it is poor warm up performance. It runs too lean till it hits 140*, then all is well.

ostie13

Same complaint with mine.When it hits 140 it runs smooth .You dont even need to look at the gauges,you can hear it when it gets to temp.Other than that it has worked perfect. I dont like the EFI systems that dont have a return gas line to the tank though.The handheld display is nice. Also try to mount the gas pump in the gas tank.That is the best way so you dont hear it and it will keep it cooler.if you have any other questions I would be glad to answer them

cutlassefi

Then a simple tb system is Not for you. You have an advantage though, there are a couple of EFI ready intakes available for you. I'd go multiport.
The FAST xfi isn't what it's cracked up to be as far as drivability goes. Look for systems that have multiple transient fueling tables, ie Accel, AEM, Holley etc. And yes spark control is huge, especially as the camshaft gets larger. Going Sequential will make it even better. Let me know if I can be of help.

cut123

Thanks everyone. I think I have it narrowed down to the edelbrock, msd or holley terminator efi. the multiport I think is gonna put me over the top on price since I have to buy a new manifold.

cutlassefi

I can get you into a multiport system for under 3k, fully tunable and with about everything you need. That would be head and shoulders above any tb system.
Just sayin.

oldcutlass

If I were going to go with an EFI system, I'd go with cutlassefi (Marks) recommendations on a fully tunable system. Once all the parameters are set it will be trouble free and later down the road can be tuned as you decide to add more performance stuff.

gbledsoe3

I will keep that in mind and ask for a quote from you in within the next 12 months. About to move on the engine building phase later this year on our little project.

cutlassefi

Best of luck, let me know if I can help.

HWYSTR455

The Holley Terminator does ignition, can use an 80s Olds controlled HEI if you want. The Terminator also flashes with an upgrade to the HP/Dominator functionality, which allows for support of many types of ignition (including DIS), SEFI, E trans controller, and full control via a laptop.

I found the Terminator w/ no fuel system in polished form on Amazon for $1680, but you have to keep a watch, the prices fluctuate.

Car Craft did an EFI comparison article recently, you can take a look at that too:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html

Don't forget a fuel system. Tanks, Inc has OE tanks with EFI sumps in them for $225, and you can do a Walbro in tank pump for about $200. The Holley billet regulator is about $200 as well, so you can plan on like close to $1k for a fuel system.

The only system not tested in that Car Craft article is the MegaSquirt, for obvious reasons. You can do it less expensive, but it's a much steeper learning curve.

Nice thing about the Holley, you can go TBI now, and later upgrade to multiport SEFI.

I was just on the Power Tour, and drove from near sea level to over 1800 feet by the Cumberland Gap, and tell you what, a carb does notice. A sequential would be nice, but even with TBI you wouldn't even break a sweat.

I'm not new to EFI, first install was in '98 when it was pretty new, I've done Accel Gen6 and 7 DFI, XFI, and saw the XFI 2.0 stuff in action. I also was considering becoming an EMIC. I recently did a little homework on the TBI setups, but I would be interested in your input & opinion Mark.

.

cutlassefi

No problem, thanks.

Here are the facts. Accel has had a throttle body for about 15 years. And in all that time it's been coupled to an ECM that easily converted from tb mode to multiport in both batch and sequential. Holley wasn't nearly the first to do that.
However ALL throttle bodies are still just electronic carbs. They are inherent to the same fuel distribution issues and discrepancies that a carb would be.
Multiport not only increases air flow but also allows for more consistent and tailored fuel management. Imo the tb is just a band aid, especially on a performance build. There is much better drivability to be had over a carb or tb with a well setup multiport, especially as camshaft size increases.

HWYSTR455

I hear ya. Thing is, dialing a multi-port in is no piece of cake, and the self-learn stuff for the multi-ports are still not that good, to many variables. OEs have thousands and thousands of hours in tuning, not something most DIYer has access to

Then there's intake design and injector mounting, and injector aiming. True its only 'air' at that point, but still a factor. The TB setups are easy to deploy, and can (and in most cases do) perform better than a carb, mostly due to the fact that most don't have the time or knowledge to take a carb to that level. Also, carbs can't compensate for environmental factors, like fuel quality, altitude, etc. For these reasons, it makes the TBI setups attractive.

The Edelbrock EFI ready intakes actually aren't too bad, injector location and aiming is good or better, but no Olds. The PP Hurricane fires the injectors right at the floor of the runner, far from optimum. So really, the only option is to have bungs fitted, and hope they are aimed right/optimally. Your chances with a TBI setup might actually be better.

I switched over to a RPM on the clone, when I did, following the general consensus, I switched to a 750 VS at the same time. I have no less than 60 hours in that pig with a wide band trying to get decent AFRs, and finally gave up. Went back to a 650 and am much closer now (out of the box IFRs were a poor match). During this time, as well as my experience on the Power Tour, is what made me look hard at swapping over to a TBI setup.

Anyway, I agree, SEFI is the way to go, but, getting there isn't as easy as it should be, and when you compare a carb to a TBI, you can get much better AFRs across the board with a TBI. So, believe it's a good choice for some apps and people.

Dang the Accel stuff is expensive these days!

.

cutlassefi

Here is just one example of the way it can be done. A good tuner can get someone far down the road if they know what they're doing. Unfortunately most don't. Yes Supremeefi is me.
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...ght=supremeefi

HWYSTR455

Actually, the injectors aiming on the Edelbrock for the Pontiac is canted towards the intake valve, not perfect, still hits the floor, but much better than most out there. If you compare it to the PP Olds, it's way better, that thing is almost 90 degrees aimed at the port floor. (pics, even if it is difficult to see, and couldn't find an Olds pic right away)

I'm using an LM-1 with a Bosch sensor, sensor is fairly new, and the 750/650 that I mentioned are Holley VS carbs. All fixed passages, and the 750 was rich at idle (actually, across the board). Nothing I could do would lean it out, except going to the 650, which had smaller passages. Technically, they were 770/670 Avengers. Anyway, you think maybe it was the O2?

Who does your intakes?

.

cutlassefi

Hate to say but the Innovate stuff is junk. ANY of the free air calibrated O2's are crap. There are a few that come with sensors that are directly calibrated to the controller. That's what you want to look for.
I had a local guy do the last two intakes but I think I'm going back to Champion Race heads in Palm Coast. Wilson manifolds did mine.
And if you look at all the EFI ready intakes out there for all makes and models you'll see that more than not they point right to the runner floor. That's because they're easier to machine/design than kicking them one way or another.

HWYSTR455

I'd be interested in a recommendation for a wide band, I'm due for a new one.

Wilson, what was the turn around on that?

Any pics of some intakes you had done?

I used Marren on one intake, but that was a while ago. Fast turn around and nice work for a decent price.

I'm getting ready to do a Pontiac SEFI, and could use a source for intake work. If I get inspired, may spring for the Olds too.

.

f-85

IMO your wasting money. Get a good carb and be done with it. Your going to spend a ton of money and time trying to get that efi to work right. Or you can just get a properly built carb and be done with it. And still enough money to go buy more cool parts for your car.

cutlassefi

And when you're done dialing it in for one climate then you get the joy of doing it over and over for other climate conditions.
I have EFI and would never go back to a carb. When done right there's no substitute for it.

Hwy- I'll try to post some pix of my intake. Typical turn around is 3-4 weeks.
AEM makes a bunch of awesome, accurate O2's.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=pro...el-controllers

Let me know what you're looking for exactly.

gbledsoe3

Please do as my son and I could be interested in going that route.

DreDay24

I'm interested in the efi too.

ctsplicer

I've had the Powerjection III for a couple of years now.Couldn't be happier.

cut123

Ive looked real hard at the powerjectionIII. Not real expandable though. I think Im gonna tune my carb a little more and get a msd box and ignition control and play with that.

f-85

Not sure what you mean. I dont ever have to mess with my carbs and runs good wherever i drive them.

cutlassefi

I'm sure it runs fine, but I contend it could run better, sometimes a lot better.

f-85

Its pretty flat around here. No mountains for hundreds of miles. So they work good. Im sure with more elevation changes it would make more of noticeable difference.

cutlassefi

I'll try to find and post the pix I have over the weekend. Thanks.