Hi guys, I have a nice little "ticking" noise and I believe it is the rocker arms, either that or lifters. My engine is a 69 455 and I was wondering if there is a certain way you can check and tighten any loose arms? cheers

 

You can remove the rockers and look for worn tips or pivots, worn pushrod tips or bent pushrods. You may have a varnished lifter that won't pump up enough, or worn cam lobe/s. There is no conventional adjustment in the valve train.

 

Thanks for the info Run. So for me to make sure the problem is fixed the first time the best way would be to replace the lifters, pushrods and rockers? I would much rather do it this way then have the constant "ticking".

 

You could figure out which one it is by running it at idle with the valve cover off on the affected side (you will have some oil spray at idle. If you rev it even once you will have a big mess) - listen to each rocker through a pipe to focus the sound, and possibly confirm by holding a finger on the rocker to see if you can feel it or if it quiets it.

Cheaper than replacing everything.

- Eric

 

Had a old shop teacher with a straight six one day take a hammer to a clacking lifter
two three good hits and it was all good. It was a test mule for us monkey's to work .

 

If it is Olds stock rockers, the pivots are made off aluminum, and they wear easily. and need to be replaced. If that is what is wore, and probably is, it is a easy fix.

 

Don't put new lifters on an old cam, change both cam and lifters. It is an "opportunity" to put in a better cam, if you can't clean off the varnish, etc. Keep lifters in order once the engine is run, don't swap them onto different lobes.

 

I pre-label 16 "snack" size ZipLocks (I and E 1 through 8) and put them in the bags as I take them out of the motor, to be sure I don't lose the order.
Others have gone so far as to make special racks out of wood, etc.

- Eric

 

Thanks heaps guys. Next question and it might sound dumb but what would be the best parts ie, rockers, cam, lifters, and pushrods to get for the olds. She is a 4dr 69 98 so I'm not looking to drag everyone any chance I get. I'll pop the tappet cover off later today and see if I can determine from what you all have said as to the cause of the noise.

 

Well I just took the cover off. Didn't look good. No oil and built up crud. After I started it there was no oil being pumped up at all, not even when I rev the engine. So now I'm thinking that the noise is a lack of oil in the head? Is this sound reasoning?

 

Same way I do it

 

Yes. Either the lifters are gummed up (likely) or the pushrods are full of crud, or both.

 

I took the rocker arms off number 1 and there was oil in them and they blow out quite easily so this would suggest the lifters aren't lifting the oil up ie; gummed up and need replacing?

 

I would soak and blow out each pushrod, clean each of the oiler holes on the rockers, and clean all the crud on tops of the heads and oil returns. Then I would change the oil and filter, put only 4 qts of cheap oil and 1 qt of rislone. Run the car about 500 miles and change the oil and filter again. Re-inspect to make sure all the rockers are getting oil. At that point I would replace the noisey rockers and pivots.

 

Pay special attention to the center 4 exhaust pushrods, they go by the exhaust crossover in the head. They are good for getting the sludge cooked inside the pushrods before the others (due to excessive crossover heat), hardening up, and stopping oil flow to top.
Great advice here.

Jim

 

When I had the cover off i put my stethoscope (screwdriver) on all of the rockers when the engine was running and there was around half that had a rather "loud" rattle in them. Hearing this I have decided to open her up and have a closer look and what a find. Nice amount of built up sludge around the center exhaust ports, only on the drivers side though. The rockers on drivers side have a nice build up of black crap but the passenger side is still clean. Also pulling out the lifters the ones that rattled where a little harder to push out and number 1 inlet which was the loudest wouldn't even come out. Turns out the base was that worn it had a tinny burr around it so I had to file it off before I could remove it, I didn't want to scratch the slot by forcing it. Now my next task is to find a new cam and lifters also a new gasket kit. I have figured I've gone this far it might as well come out and get painted as well, it is just filthy. Also I won't be taking the heads off or the bottom end apart as it doesn't blow smoke.

Now for a few questions.

The inlet gasket that came out was a pan style. I was wondering if I have to replace it with the same as I've seen on ebay full kits and they have different inlet gaskets. Here is one from ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oldsm...Q5fAccessories

Next I don't know a great deal about cams, lifters and rockers except what they do. Again I have been looking on ebay and the difference is quite confusing. Any help with this would be much appreciated. I wouldn't mind a bit more power from the engine but it isn't that important.

As stated before the engine is a 1969 455 4bbl.

In case anyone is wondering why I'm shopping on ebay, it's because I'm in Australia and ANY parts for this whole car are just ridiculous. It's cheaper for me to buy them from America and ship them over and as I'm not looking to do crazy things with this engine I figured ebay is a good place to start. Please let me know if anyone knows of a better shop that will send over here.

 

This is a great thread; I detect a slight ticking under 1 of my valve covers and initatiate an inspection as soon.


A variety of parts can be bought at decent prices at www.RockAuto.com (and they ship worldwide). Also, www.SummitRacing.com sells engine components, but they aren't always the cheapest. These 2 sites can at least offer guidance on pricing if other forum members have better vendor suggestions.

 

Your at a crossroads where whatever you do to the top end of the motor will dramatically affect the bottm end. If you want to do this inexpensively I would just replace the lifters that are concave at the bottom, and I would only repalce the rocker assy's that are noisey.

If you go thru the trouble and expense of cam and lifters, I assure you it will lead to pulling the heads, the motor, and you will be on your way to a complete engine rebuild.

I would stick with the valley pan manifold gasket. Be carefull when installing it and follow the directions about putting gasket sealer where the instructions tell you. You will need an extra set of strong arms to re-install the intake without damaging the gasket. Be very carefull when torquing the intake bolts as over tightening will lead to damaging the front and/ or rear rubber seal.

Good luck!!!

 

I have decided to rebuild the top end. I have priced up all the parts from summit, rock auto and comp cam. I was quite surprised at the overall price, less then what I was expecting, around 1k. I priced up stock parts as I figured that if I replace stock with stock then it won't effect the bottom end, but I have read on the net that people have upgraded there top end without touching the bottom. I'm gonna play it safe .

After reading on the tech page I have found out that my heads are C heads. Summit has the valves but they are 2.07" and the tech page says either 2.00" or 2.07". I'm getting the heads machined anyway so I was wondering if mine are 2.00" will that matter and should the machine shop be able to machine the head that extra and they will be ok? They will only be cleaning them up and grinding the seats. Also will getting hardened exhaust seats be a good idea while I'm at it?

I have taken pics of what the engine bay looks like before I started this too. Here are the pics from before. I will keep everyone updated along the way. I was thinking of painting the engine gold like the car and all the brackets black as that will be the colour of the engine bay. I know it isn't stock paint colour for this car but I have seen the pics from other members and they look really nice.

I'm also going to replace the water pump and hoses. I'm someone who believes in doing the job right the first time then I don't have to come back and redo it again, hence why I have decided to go this route because I figure it will be cheaper and better in the long run.

 

Looks like you're well on your way - don't forget the timing chain and gears!
Don't know what rear gear you've got, but a couple steps over stock on the cam, will give you better low-end 'grunt', and better throttle responce, hence, better mileage!
Might also look into a rebuilt Q-jet also - especially if there's play on the primary [small] throttle shaft. Known vacuum leaks!
Unleaded fuel requires hardened seats or stainless valves, while the heads are at the shop - I think the valves are cheaper than seats + machine work! They can grind the seats for the bigger valves.
Port-matching and a little bowl smoothing would help, too, if someone knows how to do it!

How much is premium fuel down there? What kind of octane? [in U.S. $ please]

 

I am looking at getting stainless valves so I won't need to get the seats then? I was also thinking about going a little bit different cam but I have no idea which one to get as I know very little about the numbers relating to them like the lift and such. I don't know what my rear end gears are so I will look when I get home and post them.

I got gas for my bike last night on the way into work and I paid $1.369 a litre for it. This was 98 octane. We also have 95 and 91 and they are cheaper still. This price equates to around $5.17 a US gallon. I would probabbly run the 95 in the olds. It cost me just over $100 to fill the car from around 1/4.

 

Looks like the AU and US dollars are trading about the same right now, so that's $5.17 US a gallon. We'd have a revolution if we ever saw that here.

- Eric

 

Stainless valves will not take the place of hard seats. They are just hard valves, seats will sometimes "burn off" under high heat conditions, and under heavy prolonged loads. I have seen this here, valves sunken 1/4 inch into the port of the head.
ALL shops in the Phoenix area insist on hard exhaust seats in their builds, they do not want them coming back.
Other areas of the US are very different.
Do you "need" 2.07's?
Only if you want the last 20 or so HP while you're foot is buried in it, or if you already have them (I think you said you were unsure).

I would not go wild on the cam, just me.
Do the timing chain, and have a professional rebuild the Q-jet.
You will be happy you did.

Good luck,
You're an inspiration.
Jim

 

Lol $5.17 a gallon was for the 98 octane though.
So what would be the best option for the valves then? Stainless intake and exhaust on hard exhaust seats or stock valves on hard exhaust seats. The price I got quoted from the machine shop was around $200 difference from just grinding or installing the seats which is chump change when your talking about the heads imo. Also I don't need the 2.07"s it's just that is all I can find on the net so I figured if they would go in ok then just get them.

I'm just wanting to make sure I have all the right info before I go ordering all the parts as I don't want to have to wait any longer to get replacement parts. I'm pretty much going to replace everything that moves from the cam to the valves and everything in between

 

Similar location issue to you Ausraven.I have found summit real good for exporting ;price good and fast despatch.
http://www.summitracing.com/

ebay stores --"valve technologies" for your stainless valves
"falconglobal" were also good for price, international despatch

 

I have purchased 2.0 intakes on e-bay. I try finding the guys who have a basketfull in his basement he is unloading, not like he will give you a bargain, though.
Try looking up "The Valve Guy" on e-bay , he sells stainless PEP valves mostly.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OLDSM...item3348122656

If the engine is going to be loaded hard in 100 heat, hard seats first. You can use them with stock type valves (the valves are not the issue-burning away seat material is), although I like the aftermarket stuff better than stock.

Make sure that your machinist does not cut the hole for the hard seat deeper than .200". Chevy type inserts can be used, but the extra material must be machined off of the top. Going deeper than .200" will only ruin the heads, because they will go to water.
Make sure all stems are within tolerance, if you re-use any old ones.
Get some positive seals on it, ditch the umbrella seals.
JMO
Jim

 

Thanks for that warhead. I found some seats on ebay but they are .218 deep. Will this matter when machining them in or will the machine shop be able to shave them a little so the head isn't cut too deep. I also looked at the valve guy and will be getting my valves from him, as soon as he tells me the shipping cost so I can pay for them lol. I was thinking of getting the guides from him while I was at it, might as well replace those too as they are a wear part in my rebuild. Everything must be replaced. Lastly where will I get the positive seals from? I have no idea on that one.

Cheers mate
Adrian

 

Adrian,
Your machine shop can cut the hole .190-.200" deep, and shave off the rest once it is installed, hell-he can make the hole .150 deep and shave the top .070" off. That will work fine, actually leaving more iron in the head.
Your machine shop should be able to get the guides at a better price, I hope. Maybe not. He should be able to get the seals. Or e-bay, or:
http://www.goodson.com/store/templat...5dbd3f896d43db

The 4611 will do the trick. I like these seals. Lots of spring clearance too. They used to carry a full rubber seal .341/.500 that let a weee bit more oil in the guide. You may want to put a ever so small notch (using a file) in the white section of the 4611 seal. That guide needs a little oil, and that white band gets tighter around a larger Olds valve. Remember, most of these parts were designed for small block Chevies that have a smaller .341 guide on their valves.

Lubricate your valve stems well, make sure you have enough oil clearance, do not run the guides tight (like .341" Chevy clearances). Your machinist must have a .345" ream for an Olds .3427" valve guide.
Do NOT use the full white seals in a street application, they will oblong and spew oil in 5-10,000 miles, even if your guides are good.
Guides:
http://www.goodson.com/store/templat...5dbd3f896d43db

You will need to use a .341/.500 seal if you have the guides replaced. Your machine shop should have a cutter for that (you will need to do a clean up cut). If not, Goodson, or any cam manufacturer will sell you or him one.
Does your shop have any of this stuff?????
Can he get the seals, seats, and does he have a .345" ream?
Does he have a .341/.500 guide cutter?
That is stuff he should have to do an Olds/GM engine.

Good luck, keep us posted.
Jim

 

Thanks for that Warhead, again. I rang the machine shop and they said that if I got all the parts myself they could install them and only charge me labor and the clean up/machining. I will order new guides and those seals and if it turns out they don't have the right tools then I will ring another shop till I find one that can do it properly for me. Being in Australia, it will be hard to find one who has knowledge of an olds head but if they have knowledge of chevy heads as there pretty popular over hear this should be adequate?

The valve guy has brass guides, are these better then cast ones? I will hold off from ordering the guides and seals until you get back to me as he should be able to combine shipping if I do order both from him.

Thanks heaps everyone for all the great info, it has been very valuable.

 

Just got a relpy on the brass guides. They are $2.49 each. Are these the way to go?

 

I would ask them specifically if they know Oldsmobile heads, and if they have the published American valve stem tip heights for your heads, and experience setting these heights correctly. Chevy heads are different. Most shops do, and can.

Brass is better for a guide, no doubt.
I rarely did brass guides, they can be a PITA to get to size. They sure do last longer, though-especially when you run monster spring pressure/ cam lift that just kills Iron guides. The brass hangs in there.

Glad to help,
Good luck.
Jim

 

Sorry I was going off memory at 3 this morning when I said brass. They are actually bronze. Are these still better then the iron ones?

 

Just got off the phone from the machinist. He has quoted me $750 to do the head work, which is clean them, machine work and full assembly. He also has said they will do whatever I ask them to do when it comes to machining them which is what I wanted to hear. That way I can print out this thread and take it to him and he will do what is written here.

They have the equipment (as Jim has stated) required to do the work which is more good news for me as we all know to get it done the right way first time or you will be doing it again before long.