Over $6,000 later and it's SLOWER!?
August 2nd, 2010, 09:42 AM
#41
I have to agree with cutlasefi on the pull the motor and see what it will do on its own. degree the cam, swap a new cam what ever you have to do. I thought I mentioned this in a differnt post above but I have heard from a very good pontiac guy that comp hydo roller lifter have had some problems in the past and he recomends using solid roller instead when ever he could talk the owners into it they are the same part for pontiac and olds and you can run a solid roller on that cam you have from what he said ??? Did you check all the holes for compretion or just one? Did the same shop or builder do the dyno work?
August 3rd, 2010, 01:26 AM
#42
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Posts: 555
ive built a handfull of olds motors, a handfull of chevy motors and paid 10 to have a 10second national motor/trans built, from what ive read about that cam you need a stall converter unless front wheel drive cars are different than rear wheel drive cars!! a big cam with no stall=no power!! i build my motors 2 match my trans and rear!! i would never just build a hot motor without my trans/rear matchn unless its a stock/mild build!!
your low compression could be a many things!! you didnt build your bottom end so you dont know what pistons were used SO couldnt of correctly calculated your CC ratio!!!!!! how do you come to 10.2 or 10.1 and you dont know what pistons you have???????
your cam has 2 be degreed 2 run right!!!!!!! you need headers 2 breathe!! your cam has 2 match your bottom end, intake, carb, torque converter and gears if it dosnt it wont run hard like it should!!!!!!!! i believe you need a stall 2 go with that cam!! your compression might be lower than you think, it might be 2 low for that cam!! you cant know your compression 4 sure without knowing what pistons you have GUESSING DOSNT WORK!!
good luck ive told you what it sounds like 2 me!! just dont sell your car have a TRUST WORTHY FRIEND WHO UNDER STANDS ENGINES LOOK AT IT FOR YOU!!!!! ive seen people mess up some1s car just so they could try 2 buy it!!!!! DONT SELL IT UNTILL SOME1 TRUST WORTHY LOOKS AT IT!! if your engine builder cant figure it out id fiond some1 new!!!
your low compression could be a many things!! you didnt build your bottom end so you dont know what pistons were used SO couldnt of correctly calculated your CC ratio!!!!!! how do you come to 10.2 or 10.1 and you dont know what pistons you have???????
your cam has 2 be degreed 2 run right!!!!!!! you need headers 2 breathe!! your cam has 2 match your bottom end, intake, carb, torque converter and gears if it dosnt it wont run hard like it should!!!!!!!! i believe you need a stall 2 go with that cam!! your compression might be lower than you think, it might be 2 low for that cam!! you cant know your compression 4 sure without knowing what pistons you have GUESSING DOSNT WORK!!
good luck ive told you what it sounds like 2 me!! just dont sell your car have a TRUST WORTHY FRIEND WHO UNDER STANDS ENGINES LOOK AT IT FOR YOU!!!!! ive seen people mess up some1s car just so they could try 2 buy it!!!!! DONT SELL IT UNTILL SOME1 TRUST WORTHY LOOKS AT IT!! if your engine builder cant figure it out id fiond some1 new!!!
August 3rd, 2010, 06:03 AM
#43
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Location: Erie,PA
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You aren't paying your engine builder to THINK,you are paying him to KNOW.If he didn't THINK it was important to degree that cam,he's got a long way to go,& much to learn.
The 850 carb idea is not something you need to try right now.The engine doesn't spin high enough to need a bigger carb.
Have the engine dynoed by itself,as mentioned.Another question is what kind of dyno was it on? A Mustang Dyno will give you figures that are lower than a DynoJet dyno.The Mustang Dyno that I use,takes the weight of the car,wind resistance,& other qualities,to create a drag on the drum,to simulate the car as if it was actually being driven down the road,thus giving a lower figure than a Dyno Jet number that just spins the wheel.
Either way,I think the engine still needs some tweaking.
The 850 carb idea is not something you need to try right now.The engine doesn't spin high enough to need a bigger carb.
Have the engine dynoed by itself,as mentioned.Another question is what kind of dyno was it on? A Mustang Dyno will give you figures that are lower than a DynoJet dyno.The Mustang Dyno that I use,takes the weight of the car,wind resistance,& other qualities,to create a drag on the drum,to simulate the car as if it was actually being driven down the road,thus giving a lower figure than a Dyno Jet number that just spins the wheel.
Either way,I think the engine still needs some tweaking.
August 3rd, 2010, 08:05 AM
#44
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Location: Rogues Island, USA
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Front wheel drive TH425 are very similar to TH400 internally although the valve body is different in shape. Trans-Go makes I nice shift kit for them. If you've ever seen a 2 ton+ car chirp 1st to 2nd it's a thrill. Yes they have converters like any automatic. Essentially what Olds did was cut the transmission in half just behind the front pump and wrap it around to the drivers side. The two halves are joined by this massive chain that is about three inches wide and four feet long. Just two big cogs back there that the chain rides on. If your transmission were slipping I'm sure the fluid would show that right away (dark red, brown, black. Burnt smell, whatever).
The points about the rings is another good one. Were they file fitted to the bore like they should have been. Butt the ends of those rings together and your compression goes to crap real fast. The very fact that this 'mechanic' brought up anything about a ring being out of it's groove makes him suspect. What made him think that? Does he know something he's not telling you? Besides, where is the ring going to go if not in it's groove? Either it goes into the piston or the bore wall, neither is good. Either way there is no way he could have gotten the piston in with a ring out of it's groove unless he broke the ring or completed gouged the cylinder wall or piston skirt. Maybe I shouldn't say never, I've seen some messed up stuff in my day.
Max I wish you luck. I don't think your cams lobe separation is that big. Although it may seem tight at 108 it's not a big cam overall as far as the specs at .050. That engine should be putting out big numbers although your vacuum may be low. Speaking of vacuum what does it pull at idle. I'm gonna guess between 10-14 inches. Let us know what it is because that may be another issue.
George
BTW, I ran an 11 inch converter, stock is 13 inches, in my Toro. Didn't have a tach so I can't tell you the stall but the smoke shows were brutal.
The points about the rings is another good one. Were they file fitted to the bore like they should have been. Butt the ends of those rings together and your compression goes to crap real fast. The very fact that this 'mechanic' brought up anything about a ring being out of it's groove makes him suspect. What made him think that? Does he know something he's not telling you? Besides, where is the ring going to go if not in it's groove? Either it goes into the piston or the bore wall, neither is good. Either way there is no way he could have gotten the piston in with a ring out of it's groove unless he broke the ring or completed gouged the cylinder wall or piston skirt. Maybe I shouldn't say never, I've seen some messed up stuff in my day.
Max I wish you luck. I don't think your cams lobe separation is that big. Although it may seem tight at 108 it's not a big cam overall as far as the specs at .050. That engine should be putting out big numbers although your vacuum may be low. Speaking of vacuum what does it pull at idle. I'm gonna guess between 10-14 inches. Let us know what it is because that may be another issue.
George
BTW, I ran an 11 inch converter, stock is 13 inches, in my Toro. Didn't have a tach so I can't tell you the stall but the smoke shows were brutal.
August 3rd, 2010, 10:56 AM
#45
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ive built a handfull of olds motors, a handfull of chevy motors and paid 10 to have a 10second national motor/trans built, from what ive read about that cam you need a stall converter unless front wheel drive cars are different than rear wheel drive cars!! a big cam with no stall=no power!! i build my motors 2 match my trans and rear!! i would never just build a hot motor without my trans/rear matchn unless its a stock/mild build!!
your low compression could be a many things!! you didnt build your bottom end so you dont know what pistons were used SO couldnt of correctly calculated your CC ratio!!!!!! how do you come to 10.2 or 10.1 and you dont know what pistons you have???????
your cam has 2 be degreed 2 run right!!!!!!! you need headers 2 breathe!! your cam has 2 match your bottom end, intake, carb, torque converter and gears if it dosnt it wont run hard like it should!!!!!!!! i believe you need a stall 2 go with that cam!! your compression might be lower than you think, it might be 2 low for that cam!! you cant know your compression 4 sure without knowing what pistons you have GUESSING DOSNT WORK!!
good luck ive told you what it sounds like 2 me!! just dont sell your car have a TRUST WORTHY FRIEND WHO UNDER STANDS ENGINES LOOK AT IT FOR YOU!!!!! ive seen people mess up some1s car just so they could try 2 buy it!!!!! DONT SELL IT UNTILL SOME1 TRUST WORTHY LOOKS AT IT!! if your engine builder cant figure it out id fiond some1 new!!!
your low compression could be a many things!! you didnt build your bottom end so you dont know what pistons were used SO couldnt of correctly calculated your CC ratio!!!!!! how do you come to 10.2 or 10.1 and you dont know what pistons you have???????
your cam has 2 be degreed 2 run right!!!!!!! you need headers 2 breathe!! your cam has 2 match your bottom end, intake, carb, torque converter and gears if it dosnt it wont run hard like it should!!!!!!!! i believe you need a stall 2 go with that cam!! your compression might be lower than you think, it might be 2 low for that cam!! you cant know your compression 4 sure without knowing what pistons you have GUESSING DOSNT WORK!!
good luck ive told you what it sounds like 2 me!! just dont sell your car have a TRUST WORTHY FRIEND WHO UNDER STANDS ENGINES LOOK AT IT FOR YOU!!!!! ive seen people mess up some1s car just so they could try 2 buy it!!!!! DONT SELL IT UNTILL SOME1 TRUST WORTHY LOOKS AT IT!! if your engine builder cant figure it out id fiond some1 new!!!
August 3rd, 2010, 01:23 PM
#46
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Well, he didn't do the bottom end, in fact, nothing was done to the bottom end. But when the heads were off, he mentioned, confirming what I was told, that the engine was very recently rebuilt. Now that the car is back together and running, he suspects the rebuild as causing a problem with the compression. The person who calculated my compression before my build was Bill T., I trust his numbers, so that just leaves a problem of some sort.
The car was put on a DynoJet by the same builder who did the build. To note, the car does chirp the tires going into both 2nd and 3rd gears when I manually shift it. I don't know what to say about the Hydraulic Roller vs. the Solid Roller issue at the moment, as the $1,000+ has already been spent and installed to get the Hyd. In the future I guess I can look at that as a possible issue. I guess I need to get it engine dyno'd, but that's going to be a while, because I'm damn broke....
I also know absolutely NO ONE who works on cars in any capacity at all, so paying a shop to do damn near anything is my only option.
max
The car was put on a DynoJet by the same builder who did the build. To note, the car does chirp the tires going into both 2nd and 3rd gears when I manually shift it. I don't know what to say about the Hydraulic Roller vs. the Solid Roller issue at the moment, as the $1,000+ has already been spent and installed to get the Hyd. In the future I guess I can look at that as a possible issue. I guess I need to get it engine dyno'd, but that's going to be a while, because I'm damn broke....
I also know absolutely NO ONE who works on cars in any capacity at all, so paying a shop to do damn near anything is my only option.
max
August 3rd, 2010, 02:40 PM
#47
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Now that the car is back together and running, he suspects the rebuild as causing a problem with the compression. The person who calculated my compression before my build was Bill T., I trust his numbers, so that just leaves a problem of some sort.
unless bill t knew the exact pistons used he couldnt of calculated a correct CC ratio PEROID!! guessing dosnt work!! you used thicker head gaskets 2 lower compression maybe change them out with some thin 1s 2 push your compression back up it sounds like a lot of work but really its easy,
unless bill t knew the exact pistons used he couldnt of calculated a correct CC ratio PEROID!! guessing dosnt work!! you used thicker head gaskets 2 lower compression maybe change them out with some thin 1s 2 push your compression back up it sounds like a lot of work but really its easy,
August 3rd, 2010, 03:58 PM
#48
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Location: West Michigan
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Some random thoughts:
1/ If this guy does know how to tune a quadrajet, then there's no reason to try a different carb.
2/ I really can't see it being a fuel pump problem, since the car's not accelerating fast enough to cause a problem. Regardless, don't spend any money on a new pump; your builder or the dyno operator probably has an electric pump sitting around that you can plumb in place of your mechanical, if you really want to experiment.
3/ SInce you inherited the bottom end, I was originally worried about the pistons and pins being too tight, but the fact the engine is not overheating kind of kills that idea. I guess there is the possibility of poor ring seal; but I'd think your builder would've noticed excessive blow-by if that were the case.
4/ Let's look for the really stupid stuff: Is the exhaust plugged? Are you sure? I once had a car with a cat so plugged the engine would die, yet I could still feel strong pulses coming out the tail pipe. For example, I think the toro manifold has a heat riser valve; is yours stuck closed?
5/ More stupid stuff: is the valvetrain set up properly? Is the geometry close enough to perfect? Did the builder determine exactly how long the pushrods should be? Are the rockers adjusted correctly (if you have adustable rockers). If they're not adjustable, that raises even more concerns about pushrod length. When you throw on aftermarket heads -- milled even -- and use an aftermarket cam, you have to mock up the valvetrain, you can't just buy parts off the shelf and install them. It's possible you're not getting all the lift out of your cam. It's even possible the valves are hanging open ever so slightly, though I would think that would show up in the vacuum reading.
In short, don't throw a lot more money at parts until someone qualified first diagnoses the problem.
1/ If this guy does know how to tune a quadrajet, then there's no reason to try a different carb.
2/ I really can't see it being a fuel pump problem, since the car's not accelerating fast enough to cause a problem. Regardless, don't spend any money on a new pump; your builder or the dyno operator probably has an electric pump sitting around that you can plumb in place of your mechanical, if you really want to experiment.
3/ SInce you inherited the bottom end, I was originally worried about the pistons and pins being too tight, but the fact the engine is not overheating kind of kills that idea. I guess there is the possibility of poor ring seal; but I'd think your builder would've noticed excessive blow-by if that were the case.
4/ Let's look for the really stupid stuff: Is the exhaust plugged? Are you sure? I once had a car with a cat so plugged the engine would die, yet I could still feel strong pulses coming out the tail pipe. For example, I think the toro manifold has a heat riser valve; is yours stuck closed?
5/ More stupid stuff: is the valvetrain set up properly? Is the geometry close enough to perfect? Did the builder determine exactly how long the pushrods should be? Are the rockers adjusted correctly (if you have adustable rockers). If they're not adjustable, that raises even more concerns about pushrod length. When you throw on aftermarket heads -- milled even -- and use an aftermarket cam, you have to mock up the valvetrain, you can't just buy parts off the shelf and install them. It's possible you're not getting all the lift out of your cam. It's even possible the valves are hanging open ever so slightly, though I would think that would show up in the vacuum reading.
In short, don't throw a lot more money at parts until someone qualified first diagnoses the problem.
Last edited by BlackGold; August 3rd, 2010 at 04:00 PM.
August 3rd, 2010, 07:01 PM
#49
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Location: Central Fl
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Now that the car is back together and running, he suspects the rebuild as causing a problem with the compression. The person who calculated my compression before my build was Bill T., I trust his numbers, so that just leaves a problem of some sort.
unless bill t knew the exact pistons used he couldnt of calculated a correct CC ratio PEROID!! guessing dosnt work!! you used thicker head gaskets 2 lower compression maybe change them out with some thin 1s 2 push your compression back up it sounds like a lot of work but really its easy,
unless bill t knew the exact pistons used he couldnt of calculated a correct CC ratio PEROID!! guessing dosnt work!! you used thicker head gaskets 2 lower compression maybe change them out with some thin 1s 2 push your compression back up it sounds like a lot of work but really its easy,
Back to basics, a leak down test, your builder should do that for free. Then check cam timing and go from there.
August 4th, 2010, 05:30 PM
#50
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Location: Phx, AZ
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Some random thoughts:
1/ If this guy does know how to tune a quadrajet, then there's no reason to try a different carb.
2/ I really can't see it being a fuel pump problem, since the car's not accelerating fast enough to cause a problem. Regardless, don't spend any money on a new pump; your builder or the dyno operator probably has an electric pump sitting around that you can plumb in place of your mechanical, if you really want to experiment.
3/ SInce you inherited the bottom end, I was originally worried about the pistons and pins being too tight, but the fact the engine is not overheating kind of kills that idea. I guess there is the possibility of poor ring seal; but I'd think your builder would've noticed excessive blow-by if that were the case.
4/ Let's look for the really stupid stuff: Is the exhaust plugged? Are you sure? I once had a car with a cat so plugged the engine would die, yet I could still feel strong pulses coming out the tail pipe. For example, I think the toro manifold has a heat riser valve; is yours stuck closed?
5/ More stupid stuff: is the valvetrain set up properly? Is the geometry close enough to perfect? Did the builder determine exactly how long the pushrods should be? Are the rockers adjusted correctly (if you have adustable rockers). If they're not adjustable, that raises even more concerns about pushrod length. When you throw on aftermarket heads -- milled even -- and use an aftermarket cam, you have to mock up the valvetrain, you can't just buy parts off the shelf and install them. It's possible you're not getting all the lift out of your cam. It's even possible the valves are hanging open ever so slightly, though I would think that would show up in the vacuum reading.
In short, don't throw a lot more money at parts until someone qualified first diagnoses the problem.
1/ If this guy does know how to tune a quadrajet, then there's no reason to try a different carb.
2/ I really can't see it being a fuel pump problem, since the car's not accelerating fast enough to cause a problem. Regardless, don't spend any money on a new pump; your builder or the dyno operator probably has an electric pump sitting around that you can plumb in place of your mechanical, if you really want to experiment.
3/ SInce you inherited the bottom end, I was originally worried about the pistons and pins being too tight, but the fact the engine is not overheating kind of kills that idea. I guess there is the possibility of poor ring seal; but I'd think your builder would've noticed excessive blow-by if that were the case.
4/ Let's look for the really stupid stuff: Is the exhaust plugged? Are you sure? I once had a car with a cat so plugged the engine would die, yet I could still feel strong pulses coming out the tail pipe. For example, I think the toro manifold has a heat riser valve; is yours stuck closed?
5/ More stupid stuff: is the valvetrain set up properly? Is the geometry close enough to perfect? Did the builder determine exactly how long the pushrods should be? Are the rockers adjusted correctly (if you have adustable rockers). If they're not adjustable, that raises even more concerns about pushrod length. When you throw on aftermarket heads -- milled even -- and use an aftermarket cam, you have to mock up the valvetrain, you can't just buy parts off the shelf and install them. It's possible you're not getting all the lift out of your cam. It's even possible the valves are hanging open ever so slightly, though I would think that would show up in the vacuum reading.
In short, don't throw a lot more money at parts until someone qualified first diagnoses the problem.
We have these wasp like thingies people call mud dobbers. Their nest looks like a pile of mud with a hole, and they like to hide them. They like iron manifolds/blocks/heads to keep their nest cool. They can make a hell of a blockage in the intake manifold.
Jim
August 5th, 2010, 11:56 PM
#51
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Posts: 555
If you read his post he's using .027 gaskets, pretty thin. And maybe the guy gave Bill the part number on the top of the pistons. Even if he didn't I trust Bill to be able to communicate info correctly. Besides unless it's more than a point off I still don't think that's the issue.
Back to basics, a leak down test, your builder should do that for free. Then check cam timing and go from there.
Back to basics, a leak down test, your builder should do that for free. Then check cam timing and go from there.
he said he didnt know what the piston part number is i asked him!! he said it was built b4 he got it, i dont give a dam how good a builder is you cant guess and come up with a correct CC ratio!! thats what backyard builders try 2 do, it sounds good 2 say its 10.1 but unless everything is calculated correct you cant know the exact CC ratio!!
i missed the .027 i didnt know cometic made a gasket that size i thought they only came around .039, i just helped a friend build a 455 with cometic head gaskets the 1s he ordered were around .039 if i would of known that they made thinner gaskets i would of had him return them and order the .027 so it would be closer 2 the stock olds .016-.017 with a little higher C
August 6th, 2010, 04:48 AM
#52
well if it will get rubber in first and second gear shifts with a front wheel drive car is it as slow as he thinks or is he off on what he thinks it will run? The edlbrock heads are nice but if there flow in "out of the box" form is the same as a good olds head and lo performance manifolds Is it too far off?? I wonder how he stack up at a track or side by side with a another car?
August 6th, 2010, 04:55 AM
#53
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he said he didnt know what the piston part number is i asked him!! he said it was built b4 he got it, i dont give a dam how good a builder is you cant guess and come up with a correct CC ratio!! thats what backyard builders try 2 do, it sounds good 2 say its 10.1 but unless everything is calculated correct you cant know the exact CC ratio!!
i missed the .027 i didnt know cometic made a gasket that size i thought they only came around .039, i just helped a friend build a 455 with cometic head gaskets the 1s he ordered were around .039 if i would of known that they made thinner gaskets i would of had him return them and order the .027 so it would be closer 2 the stock olds .016-.017 with a little higher C
i missed the .027 i didnt know cometic made a gasket that size i thought they only came around .039, i just helped a friend build a 455 with cometic head gaskets the 1s he ordered were around .039 if i would of known that they made thinner gaskets i would of had him return them and order the .027 so it would be closer 2 the stock olds .016-.017 with a little higher C
And if you measure the piston dish with even just a ruler most Olds guys will have a pretty good idea. Couple that with a known deck height, gasket thickness and head cc and I'll bet you can calculate it pretty close.
March 17th, 2013, 05:16 PM
#57
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 23
Hey guys, I know it's been YEARS since my last post on this thread but I'm back on the horse. Some updates..
My car died, like... right after I stopped posting. That's what happened. It's in the shop now (finally!) but I think the alternator died and it would no longer start. That, along with girl issues caused me to say 'screw it' to everything and move to Arizona for a while haha.
I'm back, and the car had been sitting for 2 1/2 years and now it's in the shop hopefully getting the alternator/starting issue sorted out. After that I have a couple thousand saved up so I'm going to go after this issue again. Going to take it to every damn builder in the area with my numbers, a printed copy of this thread, and a whole lotta questions. Hopefully SOMEONE can figure this damn thing out.
This is all happening in a relatively short period of time because I am moving to Oregon at the end of April and need my car to.. drive me there! Hahaha.. So I really want to get this situation sorted. May even pay a freelance mechanic off craigslist to tear the engine down (while I watch, help, learn) to see what in the holy hell is the issue.
One thing to note, I raced a newer Charger R/T at a stoplight a week or so before the damn thing died and I actually beat it. I don't know if the guy was brain damaged or something but I really should not have won that race with my abysmal dyno numbers right? Something had to be off...
Anyways, I AM GOING to tell you guys everything and ask for tons of advice and put tons of pictures on here as well. I am planning on getting it repainted flat black again because the Washington weather hasn't been kind to my homemade rustoleum paint job haha. Also might be putting a hood scoop on it to compensate for the lack of hood clearance etc.
Details ahead. Sorry for going AWOL. I was so disgusted and depressed after spending all my money on a slow car that broke down a month after I got it back
Max
My car died, like... right after I stopped posting. That's what happened. It's in the shop now (finally!) but I think the alternator died and it would no longer start. That, along with girl issues caused me to say 'screw it' to everything and move to Arizona for a while haha.
I'm back, and the car had been sitting for 2 1/2 years and now it's in the shop hopefully getting the alternator/starting issue sorted out. After that I have a couple thousand saved up so I'm going to go after this issue again. Going to take it to every damn builder in the area with my numbers, a printed copy of this thread, and a whole lotta questions. Hopefully SOMEONE can figure this damn thing out.
This is all happening in a relatively short period of time because I am moving to Oregon at the end of April and need my car to.. drive me there! Hahaha.. So I really want to get this situation sorted. May even pay a freelance mechanic off craigslist to tear the engine down (while I watch, help, learn) to see what in the holy hell is the issue.
One thing to note, I raced a newer Charger R/T at a stoplight a week or so before the damn thing died and I actually beat it. I don't know if the guy was brain damaged or something but I really should not have won that race with my abysmal dyno numbers right? Something had to be off...
Anyways, I AM GOING to tell you guys everything and ask for tons of advice and put tons of pictures on here as well. I am planning on getting it repainted flat black again because the Washington weather hasn't been kind to my homemade rustoleum paint job haha. Also might be putting a hood scoop on it to compensate for the lack of hood clearance etc.
Details ahead. Sorry for going AWOL. I was so disgusted and depressed after spending all my money on a slow car that broke down a month after I got it back
Max
March 17th, 2013, 06:43 PM
#60
If the car ran fine and had more power before the work was done. I would concentrate my search to the last work done. Which if I understand right was a cam, heads and intake. Cutlassefi has made some great points about parts compatibility. If your out of money put the stock intake back on and see what happens. You are waiting your money going after more carb IMO.
March 17th, 2013, 06:49 PM
#61
morgan
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 1,925
Yes he said it was bored over....the last poster asked about ring end gap,and along with that dont the rings take some time to set before you get really good compression?
March 17th, 2013, 06:55 PM
#62
March 17th, 2013, 09:24 PM
#63
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Yeah I'm not going to put a new carb on it. I am going to take it to a few different local shops and see what they say. Now that the power curve is moved up the RPM spectrum though, putting the OEM intake on there would probably not do much as the intake on there now was port matched and chosen to work with my set-up by Bill Travato. Mismatching my cams' power curve with the old intake would probably be a bad idea, no?
March 18th, 2013, 04:24 AM
#64
Yeah I'm not going to put a new carb on it. I am going to take it to a few different local shops and see what they say. Now that the power curve is moved up the RPM spectrum though, putting the OEM intake on there would probably not do much as the intake on there now was port matched and chosen to work with my set-up by Bill Travato. Mismatching my cams' power curve with the old intake would probably be a bad idea, no?
March 18th, 2013, 05:02 AM
#65
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[QUOTE=Sampson;522069) the Torquer and Cam are fighting each other.[/QUOTE]
x2, although that's not your total problem, that's something to look at in the future. You either have too much intake for the cam, or not enough cam for that intake. A regular Performer would be perfect for that cam etc.
x2, although that's not your total problem, that's something to look at in the future. You either have too much intake for the cam, or not enough cam for that intake. A regular Performer would be perfect for that cam etc.
March 18th, 2013, 09:13 AM
#66
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Since not asked or mentioned, what spark plugs are you running, and how are they gapped? What coil is being used?
Don't Edelbrock heads require a special extended plug?
I once over-gapped a set of plugs because it had an Accel coil, and it ran like crap.
Put them back to .035 and it was fine.
Just a thought - - - -
Don't Edelbrock heads require a special extended plug?
I once over-gapped a set of plugs because it had an Accel coil, and it ran like crap.
Put them back to .035 and it was fine.
Just a thought - - - -
March 18th, 2013, 05:14 PM
#67
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Location: Near Muskegon Michigan
Posts: 1,015
Since not asked or mentioned, what spark plugs are you running, and how are they gapped? What coil is being used?
Don't Edelbrock heads require a special extended plug?
I once over-gapped a set of plugs because it had an Accel coil, and it ran like crap.
Put them back to .035 and it was fine.
Just a thought - - - -
Don't Edelbrock heads require a special extended plug?
I once over-gapped a set of plugs because it had an Accel coil, and it ran like crap.
Put them back to .035 and it was fine.
Just a thought - - - -
Last edited by ziff396; March 18th, 2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: add
March 18th, 2013, 08:33 PM
#68
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 23
I'm not sure about the plugs and all that. The wires were new I think but can't remember what they are. The cap I have is a Summt HEI I believe, at least that's what I was told and that's what it looks like to me. Can someone link me directly to a store (summit/jegs/etc) with the wires and plugs that are recommended for my heads? I will just buy them to make sure I have what I need.
Anyways, just got it back from the shop today and it's running. Turns out there was a bad connection to the alternator that caused it to drain the battery. It seems to be running pretty strong, maybe I've been away from V8's for too long but it sure feels nice to be driving it again. Going to take it Maaco tomorrow and see about respraying it. My Rustoleum paintjob is chipping pretty badly haha. After that I'm going to take it to a few local speed shops and let them tinker around with her for a while. Maybe someone will have an idea of what the issue is. Maybe like some of you they will see the combination of parts as being incompatible or working against eachother in some way. I'll let you guys know and post new pictures after I get it resprayed too.
Max
Anyways, just got it back from the shop today and it's running. Turns out there was a bad connection to the alternator that caused it to drain the battery. It seems to be running pretty strong, maybe I've been away from V8's for too long but it sure feels nice to be driving it again. Going to take it Maaco tomorrow and see about respraying it. My Rustoleum paintjob is chipping pretty badly haha. After that I'm going to take it to a few local speed shops and let them tinker around with her for a while. Maybe someone will have an idea of what the issue is. Maybe like some of you they will see the combination of parts as being incompatible or working against eachother in some way. I'll let you guys know and post new pictures after I get it resprayed too.
Max
March 18th, 2013, 09:05 PM
#69
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Shorewood, Il.
Posts: 3,057
If that old primer is flaking off, the surface of the old paint wasn't sanded or prepped right.
It must ALL come off, or the new paint will continue to do the same thing!
Tell Maaco what's on there - they might have a sealer, but it's gonna cost some bucks, either way.
[I managed 3 in the Chicago area]
It must ALL come off, or the new paint will continue to do the same thing!
Tell Maaco what's on there - they might have a sealer, but it's gonna cost some bucks, either way.
[I managed 3 in the Chicago area]
March 19th, 2013, 12:56 AM
#70
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,202
I am now completely convinced this engine is, pardon my language, 'fucked.' It is so SLOW, it's actually embarrasing. To show someone my engine and tell them the amount I just poured into it and then when they ride in it, it's slower than a minivan. I am SO ANGRY. I am completely broke, and have a massive credit card bill to pay off for a year or more and a car that sounds like the devil and drives like a wheelbarrow
Flying blind and trusting a builder with all new fancy sounding parts doesn't always = fast.
I hope the best for you, but more importantly I hope other new hot rodders learn from your mistake.
Last edited by Aceshigh; March 19th, 2013 at 12:58 AM.
March 19th, 2013, 04:30 PM
#71
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 23
I drove it down to Maaco and they're sanding it, sealing it and painting it glossy black for $700. I'm not expecting anything amazing but it can't possibly be worse than what's on there now haha
Also had some more starting issues this morning as the starter spun twice without catching. Had me worried but alas it started in the end. Thinking it may be the starter going, the battery being too small/weak or maybe the starter just needs to 'find its' groove' after sitting for 3 years. Time will tell.
Max
March 19th, 2013, 05:35 PM
#72
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Shorewood, Il.
Posts: 3,057
So,even though you're unsatisfied with the outcome of your $6000 expendature, and not sure if driving it may cause more problems, you're going to 'spruce it up' to impress your friends at idle, even though it 'don't go'???
I guess priorities are different for everyone!
Good luck!
I guess priorities are different for everyone!
Good luck!
March 19th, 2013, 05:55 PM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Can you show the dyno run pix?
Front brakes dragging? :-)
Does anyone want to buy a 1968 Toronado?
============
yes, someone does!
Did the rebuilder put the rods in the correct way so that the rod bearings clear the crank fillet and aren't on backwards? Or even a cap on backwards. That would tighten it up in a hurry.
=================
Right. Surely any competent assembler would notice that part where the rotating assembly got difficult to rotate.
I also think that 4k to rebuild the bottom end is crazy.
================
I will give up my engineering job if I can get $4000 for assembling bottom ends, and get steady work. Even including parts, that's pretty good.
im about 100% sure the reason your car is slow is because you have a race cam with a stock bottom end with no stall converter!!!
=============
Try advancing the timing a little, see if that helps. Easy and fast.
i tell people all the time bigger is not allways better!! the stroke will do the rest!!
===============
I bet you tell that to all the girls!
:-)
sorry could not resist...
March 20th, 2013, 04:39 PM
#75
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 23
So,even though you're unsatisfied with the outcome of your $6000 expendature, and not sure if driving it may cause more problems, you're going to 'spruce it up' to impress your friends at idle, even though it 'don't go'???
I guess priorities are different for everyone!
Good luck!
I guess priorities are different for everyone!
Good luck!
I don't have any 'friends to impress' and it certainly isn't going to look like a show car, its' just going to look like a car that should at least possibly be ok on the road. When everything is up to daily driver status I can focus on making it go fast. I may or may not be able to afford that now, but it will certainly happen as circumstances and money allow. I actually found your comment presumptuous and offensive.
And 455man, I'll mention that solenoid issue to the shop, I have another appointment for Monday next week to fix the heater, check the brakes and putting in a proper sized battery (mine is WAY undersized haha).
Let you know what I find out.
Max
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