67BB

Ok, to rehash, we have a '67 cutlass with a 425 in it. I'm going to need big block springs, motor mounts and a dipstick and tube.

Does anybody have any pictures of a BB with headers from the drivers side? Also, what kind of headers you have and how low do they hang?

Where is the best place to get springs? Are chevelle springs the same? I see Ground Up has Moog springs.

Is there a preferred place here to get motor mounts and such? I would think they are available at autozone along with belts and hoses but might be in for a surprise.

Thanks.

67Olds442X2

Here's a couple pics. Might need to relocate the brake distribution valve, I had to. Headers are Doug Thorley I bought in the 70's so newer styles might be different. They don't hang much lower than my larger trans pan. Got my Moog springs from Summit. Here's a link to the different Moog springs.

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com...il_Springs.asp

Got motor mounts from here:

http://www.supercarsunlimited.com/

67BB

Perfect, perfect. Thanks. Just what I needed to see.

So now I need to know where you got that stick and tube? Looks great.

67Olds442X2

That setup I replaced with this one, much better.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mr...ake/oldsmobile

I'll add that all headers I believe fit different. I use a mini starter but still have to remove it to get the headers out. The oil filter housing has to come out first also. I don't have to jack the engine up, just the car has to be high enough. Again some brands fit differently. Good luck.

67BB

I think the pass motor mount is bad. That side hangs way down plus I think they snagged it getting it off the trailer. Might be bent a little too. I think it all adds up. The drivers side is not so low as to be a danger. Well, it's my wife's car so.....

67BB

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. The car has headers. One is hanging too low. Looks bent and possibly sagging from MM. Also, there is no dipstick on the block.

joe_padavano

If you have the original frame pads, you do NOT need "big block" motor mounts. You need 2261 motor mounts, which are the same for BBO and SBO in 1967.

Once again, can we please all stop calling them "big block" and "small block" motor mounts? PuhLEEZE?

My 84 Custom Cruiser with factory 307 uses 2328 motor mounts, which are the alleged "big block" mounts. My 68 W-30 uses 2261s, which are the alleged "small block" mounts.

Yes, I really do get tired of typing this all the time.

67BB

Pard, reading really is fund-da-mental. You might want to go over this again before you go off on somebody. To be honest, I get tired of asking people to read what I typed instead of answering what they think I mean. Where in the wide world of sports did anybody mention big block mounts?

I might be new to this forum but I'm pretty experienced with the english language.

joe_padavano

Well, here's what you posted:

Unfortunately that can be interpreted in more that one way. I read that as needing springs, motor mounts, dipstick, and tube for a big block (especially since the dipstick and tube for a big block are different than for a small block). You are correct, however, in that it does not specifically say "big block motor mounts". I apologize if I misinterpreted what you wrote.

You'll also see that the motor mount question comes up every couple of weeks.

67BB

Well in that case you'd be proud of me. Friday night o'reillys tried to sell me 2328s they actually had in stock. I told them I needed 2261s so they ordered them in and I got them yesterday around lunch.

Now we found we need power steering hoses and trans line.....and get the header bent back. Looks like it wasn't the mount after all.

67BB

So we got the ps hoses changed, dipstick in, swapped the carb out, replaced the belts and radiator hoses and took it down the road a few times. Got lots of new problems now but no leaks.

We've got to get the right collector raised, new wheels and tires, pertronix and get it tuned up. It's coming along. Supposed to be mid-60s next weekend.

67BB

I still need to find a part number for the front springs. The ones everybody mentions have around a 300lb rate. Shouldn't a bb have around a 400lb rate? I can't get a straight answer, only a link to a chart. If I knew what I needed I'd already have it.looking at a chart tells me nothing. Anybody?

cutlassefi

The same way I get "My roller rockers are hitting the stock valve covers, help!"

Tedious isn't it.

joe_padavano

Not when compared to the headers for Supremes question...

joe_padavano

The reality is that the BBO is less than 50 lbs heavier than an SBO. Whenever I do this swap I usually retain the SBO springs and even cut them a little to lower the front end further.

67BB

That's the kind of information I can use. That explains a lot and why people are using Moog 5244s. So, will these sit it a touch lower than stock? that's really what we're looking for without going bouncy bouncy down the road. There's a really good chance that what I assume are the factory springs are really just worn out and sagging but it sure does give it a nice rake.

67BB

Hey, X2, been scratching my head a little. Looks like you made a post and then deleted it because I can't find it. Yeah, I can get what the stock part is supposed to be but here I keep hearing that's wrong, moog is wrong, etc. So what number did you put on the front of the maroon 442? That's the rake we have now and want to keep. The problem is when somebody gets in the car that side dops a couple of inches. They may be facotr SB springs that are just worn plum out.

Before (15s)


After (17s)

DeltaPace77

Think you might be entering custom territory on the springs, and not sure who does these lately. Recall years ago, when I worked with a spring place on the West coast, I found in the back pages of a Motor Trend Mag. They built me whatever spring I wanted for my car, but fronts ended up a little long. No problem, since have a chop saw. Down know if the shop is still around(remember it called coil something), but gotta be other places around. The stiffer springs, with upraded sway bars and Bilstien shocks, sure changed the car's handling characteristics.

67BB

I guess I'm not following along closely enough. Why is asking for stock spring specs or asking what off the shelf moog part people are using falling into the custom realm?

joe_padavano

I agree, I don't understand that statement either. As I said, I find that the SBO springs under a BBO result at most a slightly lower front end. I usually end up cutting between 1/2 and 1 full coil off the springs anyway. The A-bodies usually sit too high in the front for my taste with stock suspension.

67BB

Joe, just so I understand, if you cut some of the spring the spring still has the same rate, right? or does the rate increase if you reduce the length? I'm sure it's not enough to make a difference cutting 1/2 coil but I'm just curious.

joe_padavano

Actually if you cut a coil spring, the spring rate goes up. Let's say for the sake of argument that you have a spring with ten coils that has a 500 lb/inch spring rate. When you compress that spring one inch, each coil compresses 1/10 of an inch.

Now, if you cut one full coil off that spring it only has nine coils. Compress the spring the same inch as before and each coil needs to compress 1/9 of an inch, or 0.11" vs. 0.10" per coil. That's a 10% increase in the deflection of each coil and roughly a 10% increase in spring rate. This formerly 500 lb/in spring is now about 550 lb/in.

67BB

Ok, good. I'm thinking more along the lines of 300lb/in so that would be maybe 315 for taking off 1/2 coil. Thanks again. The moogs everyone seems to like are from 297 to 315 or so. I doubt I cut any but might.

67Olds442X2

Yes I had posted but got fed up when I couldn't post the PDF file then tried a JPG but that was too small to read. I was trying to post a page from the assembly manual that listed all the springs that came on 67's. It shows different springs depending on options on the car. Those numbers wouldn't have helped anyway I guess. If you search on Summit as an example for Moog front springs they list six or so different springs. If you searched the Moog website for those different springs it'll tell you the load ratings and installed heights. If you know what height and or load rating you need I had posted a link to the various springs that Moog has. This is what I was going to post. I think the heights vary from 10 to 11 inches with load ratings between 200 ish to 400 ish.
It might take a hit or miss, get something you think is close and if it doesn't look right you may have to change them out for another set. I think I'd do that before cutting one.
Unfortunately I don't know what springs are in the front of the maroon car, they are new but were on the car when I got it. I got station wagon springs on the back of both cars because I wanted them raised up some. The cameo car has the original springs with a 2 inch spacer. Best of luck.

67BB

Ok, so I wasn't actually losing mind. These days I just never know.

Yeah and that's the problem. I really don't know what I need in regards to load and length. I guess trial and error. The problem is its my wifes car. Doesn't really sound like a problem does it? The thing is if its not right the first time she thinks game over. Or she takes it to somebody so a $100 repair is now $500. That's my problem. If it was just me I'd put on springs until I was happy. This is why I need it to be good the first time.

67Olds442X2

I'd go with one of these: middle one is the cheapest.

MOG-5234 11" 297lbs 2025 load

MOG-5244 11" 315lbs 2124 load

MOG-5272 11" 327lbs 2279 load

http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...position/front

Rockauto is much cheaper.