squirell

Hi guys,
I just made a deal to buy an engine that is supposed to be a 455.
The only markings I can see on the engine is 396021F on the driver side above the header and another F on the pass side just above the oil pan.
The heads are marked E.
Also some other numbers below the drivers valve cover.
Can anyone tell me any specs/year/HP on this engine ?
Just FYI it has edlebrock carb, performer 455 intake,headers,and choppy cam
See pictures.
Thanks in advance,
Matt

squirell

For some reason 1 picture won't load
the # under the center of drivers side valve cover
40 (bolt) *86

61reoldsman

It is a 455 by the that block number and the heads are from 1970 i believe

oldstata

There Is a small area on driver side just under the head you will need to remove powere steering pump if it has it will tell you the year


But from olds FAQ you have 68-70 block and heads
This number should take the form of "35Mxxxxxx" where:
3 = Oldsmobile division.
5 = year of manufacture (8=68, 9=69, 0=70, ..., 4=74, 5=75, 6=76, etc.).
M = location of manufacture (M = Lansing, B=Baltimore, X = Kansas City, Z = Fremont, CA, etc).

Taken from olds FAQ

MDchanic

The block is a '68-'72 455, the heads are 1970, so it looks like a 1970 motor.

What's the unit number on the pad on the left side of the front of the block?

- Eric

squirell

Thanks for the quick repies.
It is supposed to be the orig eng from the car which is supposed to be a 1970 culass sx.
Although there were no SX emblems
I beleive those cars were orig 2 barrel engines.
Anyone have HP/Torque ratings ?
I wasn't able to see #'s on front of block.

oldstata

I think sc should of been four barrel and I would think 365 hp ? It should have the higher compression
please correct if I am wrong here

GAOldsman

320 hp and 500 ft/lbs torque on the '70 SX and it was a 2 bbl.

squirell

was it 10:25 TO 1 ?
Was posi standard on the SX ?
I know the car has a turbo 400 trans.
Hell I may buy the whole thing.
If I put the 455,TH 400 will the driveshft from the 70 fit my 67 ?
It's currently 330/320 with a TH 350 trans

GAOldsman

#1 yes
#2 optional
#3 TH400 mandatory
Go for it
#4 Probably not but there should/might be one available of the length needed someone who has done this may chime in and say otherwise

GAOldsman

Here's a bit of info for you

http://gmheritagecenter.com/gm-herit...tion-kits.html

Go to Oldsmobile and then choose 1970.... enjoy

squirell

That site is awesome !!
Thank you.
I also looked up my Chevelle and love how there's no mention of my LS-6 engine

oldstata

That looks clean enough to build I would buy whole if you could that hood could sell if it's orig
Not to mention all other parts

squirell

One more question (for tonight)

The accesory setup is different between the 70 455 (has A/C)
and my 67 330 (no A/C)

The 67 has the alternator on the Pass side and the 70 is on the drivers side.

Should I (could I) use all the accesorys/brackets from my 67 engine ?

I want to keep it as stock looking as possible

oldstata

I believe you can use all your 330 brackets but u have read arguments on both ends I think the 350 are the ones in queastion because the made two diff part numbers but hope others will clarify

squirell

The car is junk..rusty rockers,fenders,quaters ,around windows,
floors (flintstones), trunk everywhere.

The hood is aftermarket glass and the corners need repair (flew up).

I would like the buckets and console/shifter...even though it's not correct for my 67...I offered $100 and she said yes.
The only other good parts are dash cluster ,stainless ,grill,

64Rocket

If you do the swap,
Use the mounts meant for the 330,
Use the water pump and all the pulleys & brkts from the 330 for all to match up, Or get all brkts and pulleys from the 455. If you do that, you will have to adapt the P/S hoses.
You will have to move the trans cross member back and set the trans mount on and mark the frame to redrill the frame.
You will have to have a drive shaft made or search the wrecking yards for the correct length.
BBO headers will fit right in.
Do search for an aluminum radiator. This is the one I used.
http://www.kmjent.com/cart/radiators-caps/

I like to use a big electric fan set up with fan relays.

Good Luck
Gene

squirell

"If you do the swap,
Use the mounts meant for the 330,
Use the water pump and all the pulleys & brkts from the 330 for all to match up,"

That's what I wanted to hear...thanx

squirell

[QUOTE=64Rocket;505416]If you do the swap,
Use the mounts meant for the 330,
Use the water pump and all the pulleys & brkts from the 330 for all to match up, Or get all brkts and pulleys from the 455. If you do that, you will have to adapt the P/S hoses.
You will have to move the trans cross member back and set the trans mount on and mark the frame to redrill the frame.
You will have to have a drive shaft made or search the wrecking yards for the correct length.
BBO headers will fit right in.
Do search for an aluminum radiator. This is the one I used.
http://www.kmjent.com/cart/radiators-caps/

I like to use a big electric fan set up with fan relays.


I'm getting the 4 core radiator out of the 70 car...I don't think it will fit in the 67 though.

Will the 70 headers fit the 67 ? (I'm doubting it will)

64Rocket

Just take the measurements on each radiator and check it out. Hoses should work also.
The big block OLDS headers will fit.
If you study it carefully, the 330 brkts will fit, may need some slight adjustments.
Check out the web site, some pretty good prices on the radiator.
Just my thought, but don't cheap out using a flex fan. Get a good 5 or 6 blade factory one with a HD clutch or electric like I said. I set my electric to come on with key on, works great.
PM me if you need more info.

Gene

J-(Chicago)

X2 you can score original factory 6 blade fans on ebay for 15-20 bucks.

wmachine

The 2-bbl was only standard part of the year in 1970. Here is the whole story on the SX courtesy of Wild About Cars.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50

All the specifications you're looking for are available free of charge in various places on Wild About Cars.
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com. An information supersource, especially Oldsmobile. More Olds content than anywhere else on the internet and continuing to grow.
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Dealer Brochures, magazine ads and articles, and the Automotive History Preservation Society library growing daily.
Free to join, free to learn.

squirell

good reading,
Thanx Kurt

joe_padavano

Let's clarify a few things in this thread. The heads on the 455 are definitely 1970, used on all 455s except W-30s. Could be big or small valve, there's no way to know for sure without pulling a head and measuring the valves.

As Gene noted, use the rubber motor mounts for the 330. These are Anchor P/N 2261 mounts. Do NOT get "455" motor mounts, they won't line up with the 67 frame mounts. (Am I the only one that's tired of hearing me say that? )

The brackets on the 455 are for an A/C setup. Non-A/C uses the passenger side alternator. In any case, you want to use the accessory brackets from the 330. These will bolt to the 455 (you'll need to move the small strut on the alternator bracket to the second hole in the "Y" shaped bracket). The 64-67 cars use the large PS pump reservoir and mount the pump up high to clear the steering box in the narrower frame. The 68-up PS pump and brackets have been made to work, but you'll need to change the reservoir on your original pump. I'd just keep what you have. You will need the water pump from the 330 (or a new replacement) and longer belts. Get belts for a 1967 442 with the 400 motor.

The 455 should have W/Z exhaust manifolds. Use those. Use the high torque starter from the 455 also.

The 64-67 motors use a different crank flange bolt pattern from the 68-90 motors, so be sure to use the flexplate from the 455. Your 67 already has the holes drilled for the TH400 crossmember location since that trans was an option in the 1967 model year. The driveshaft will not fit since your 67 has a 3" longer wheelbase than the 70 (115" vs. 112").

Relocating the crossmember for the TH400 means that you will need to change the e-brake cables since they hang off the crossmember. Get the front and intermediate cables for a 67 442 with the TH400 trans. NAPA lists these. Others have made the original cables work but I remain skeptical since GM does not use different parts if they don't need to. Keep in mind that the e-brake cable lengths are designed to work under all extremes of cable adjustment and brake wear.

If your 67 currently has a two speed Jetaway, your shifter may not have enough throw to engage low manually on the TH400. If you have a column shifter you'll need to change the steering column to one with a three speed AT shift gate. If you have a floor shifter you can either swap for a 67-69 unit for a three speed or get the conversion kit from Shiftworks. The bracket that attaches the floor shifter cable to the trans pan is different for a TH400 but is available repro.

squirell

Joe,
Thank you...you are always a welth of information !!
I understood everything you said except:

The 64-67 cars use the large PS pump reservoir and mount the pump up high to clear the steering box in the narrower frame.

So does this mean to use my 67 p/s pump and brackets on the 455 ?

Also,
I thought the water pumps were the same for small and big block.

The fuel pump looks totally different on the 455 , almost like it's upside down.
Can I use the 330 fuel pump setup ?

Thanks,
Matt

joe_padavano

Correct. Note how the bracket bolts to the head and intake only, so there's no affect due to the taller deck height. Also notice the alternator bracket where the strut that goes to the water pump is now bolted to the hole in the "Y" bracket that's furthest inboard. By the way, this is a 1967 400, which is externally identical to the 455.



The issue isn't BBO/SBO, it's water pump length. There are three different lengths and you must use the one that matches your accessory brackets and pulleys.



Yes. Factory Olds fuel pumps are "upside down" as compared to Chevy, but some aftermarket pumps may use the same configuration as Chevy pumps. They all bolt up to any 1964-1990 Olds block.

squirell

cool...so pretty much use ALL brackets and accys from the 330.
including the water pump (unless the 455 one lines up with the other pullys).

It was unclear if I can use the 330 fuel pump on the 455 though.
It would be nice if I can use it as I want the car as stock looking as possible.


Thanks again,
Matt

joe_padavano

Any fuel pump that bolts to a 330 also bolts to a 455. Paint the engine gold and few will be able to tell it's not a 330.

This is what a stock Olds fuel pump should look like.

MDchanic

Yes, the fuel pumps should be the same.
The '70 455 may or may not have a return line (the 330 does not), so that will influence which pump you choose.

- Eric

squirell

got the numbers off the block...can anyone tell me exactly what it is ?
30m269296

oldstata

Three is Oldsmobile 0 is 1970 m is lans plant the rest should match the last of the vin

oldstata

Also there is a pad on the trans if oe should match the motor

joe_padavano

As noted above, all the VIN derivative will tell you is that the engine came from a car built at the Lansing plant during the 1970 model year. There's no additional info in the VIN derivative since Olds built the full model line at Lansing. Well, the number DOES tell you that the engine did NOT come from a Toronado, since Toro sequence numbers started with 500001. This one is 269296, so it is from a RWD car.

2blu442

I'm pretty sure the radiators are the same between 1967 and 70. But just to be safe you should measure them. You will have to modify your 1967 top plate and bottom brackets for the 4 row. Factory 4 row parts for 1967 are extremely rare. The 1970 are more common but still have a strong demand. If that 1970 top plate is usable at all you can sell it to re-coup some of your costs purchasing the car. If the core support is bad at least save the lower radiator brackets. What other options does it have on it? You might want to take pictures to post so we can help you save all the good stuff before sending it to the crusher.



John

squirell

Thanks for help with this guys ..much appreciated.
John ...I have a thread in parts for sale "parting out 70 cutlass S/X"

squirell

Joe_p,
"The 455 should have W/Z exhaust manifolds. Use those"

My 455 has rusty headers,..I am assuming my 330 manifolds wont work.
should I get the thornton repops ?
"They are the correct GM "X" and "W" manifold for 1965-67 Oldsmobile big blocks with the correct functioning damper."

Thanks,
Matt

squirell

Also ,
would I be better off using the W and Z becuase they don't have a heat riser ?

joe_padavano

Actually, you're better off with the W/Z because they flow better. The W/Z have individual runners inside the manifold. The earlier manifolds do not, the are simply an open log manifold.

oldstata

Thanks Joe

This answered a queastion I asked in my build thread

I searched for hrs and couldn't find much on witch flowed better

squirell

Joe,
Thank you !!