My First Project & Rebuild 455 rocket
May 6th, 2012, 11:11 PM
#1
My First Project & Rebuild 455 rocket
Hello as you can read this is my first rebuild@ Im new to internal engine specs etc...Ive been in school for my ASE for a few moths now, and come fall im wanting to do rebuild on my 455! This build Im wanting is or would be a street/strip build but not alot of money to invest! Im hoping for some worth while tips which im sure I will find here! I currently acuired 69 Oldsmobile Cutlass S holiday coupe 2 door! This is what I have found under the hood so far w the help of fellow olds guys on here in my first thread ever! I have 396021 F casting numbers above the water pump need to look and see if there is a small a after the F! My mondello tech guide say s on of two options years 68-76 stud Boss?? and or 68-76____ and or for the Fa if i have which i meed to look it says 72-76 no clutch ball??Im curious if this is original motor? Even if not still needing ? on that street/strip build! also I have set of 403 heads on car idk y but they are i did not do this! Heads are 4A with numbers 554 717 mondello say\s years 77-80 nd or 88-90.. This is what I know I have so far! Like said I havnt done anythiing to the car except install some guages! Reason for my rebuild is recently had num 1 cyl exhaust valve pushrod not cooperating! it starts to pump then stops! Did the old tranny fluid trick for cleaner and chattering stopped but sounds as if the lifter itself is worn and about fall out bottom end! Idk if can just replace one lifter for now or??? Thank you for your time and any replies,
Chris... PS. might i add this is my first project car and im wanting to do this right! reason for taking on this project is for a huge muscle car enthusiast friend of mine whom recnetly passed in Dec last year!! SO this is a tribute to the "KING OF THE STREETS" RIP DEREK ALLEN GILL
Chris... PS. might i add this is my first project car and im wanting to do this right! reason for taking on this project is for a huge muscle car enthusiast friend of mine whom recnetly passed in Dec last year!! SO this is a tribute to the "KING OF THE STREETS" RIP DEREK ALLEN GILL
May 6th, 2012, 11:57 PM
#2
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here are a few pointers for a good street / strip 455 engine first bore and hone and rebuild with good pistons probably something like the Icon 886's or some forged stock replacements and then get a engle 20-22 cam it's .496 / .512 lift 226/230 duration at .050" and then also get a set of C or E heads and have them rebuilt to stock specs and then get an edelbrock performer and a 750 carburetor and good ignition that should run low 13 sec 1/4 mi times depending on the weight of the car it will be a strong runner for not much money but if you do have a little more i could tell you some other stuff to do but ill save that for later cuz writing without punctuation is killing me we like grammar on CO cuz most of us are too old to know what text message code is and have a hard time reading when we dont see paragraphs and punctuation marks but anyway good luck on your build and if you need any more help dont hesitate to ask and next time i wont give you a hard time about punctuation 
May 7th, 2012, 12:14 PM
#3
here are a few pointers for a good street / strip 455 engine first bore and hone and rebuild with good pistons probably something like the Icon 886's or some forged stock replacements and then get a engle 20-22 cam it's .496 / .512 lift 226/230 duration at .050" and then also get a set of C or E heads and have them rebuilt to stock specs and then get an edelbrock performer and a 750 carburetor and good ignition that should run low 13 sec 1/4 mi times depending on the weight of the car it will be a strong runner for not much money but if you do have a little more i could tell you some other stuff to do but ill save that for later cuz writing without punctuation is killing me we like grammar on CO cuz most of us are too old to know what text message code is and have a hard time reading when we dont see paragraphs and punctuation marks but anyway good luck on your build and if you need any more help dont hesitate to ask and next time i wont give you a hard time about punctuation
O OKAY! Sorry, I thought I did well with punctuation considering I do alot of texing and I catch myself doing often what you expalined above! Its a habit. But first things first is thanks for your reply, as for my car I have edelbrock performer intake already and a hei dist as well a holley carb unsure what size any tips on finding out...Im not for sure exactly what all intels in my motor internally yet. I like the idea w forged pistons flat top better? I think... I plan on doing a swap if I can find another olds motor to do the swap with! Im currently talking with Jensenracing in regards to the engine! Im curious if you have any advice as to my lifter problem, am I able to just replace that one or better to buy whole upper top end!Im very interested in any tips you have on that build! Were would you recommend to find these parts you talk about decent priced! Ive looked OPGI, Rockauto, and Mondello, Mondello sent me catalogue w out prices lol! Which is prolly how they do things so you get sucked in!!!
May 7th, 2012, 03:58 PM
#4
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You can get one lifter and try it but sometimes putting a new lifter on an old cam can wipe out the cam lobe. Some guys have had good experiences with it, others not so much. If it's not in your budget to get a whole new cam and lifter set then try replacing the one for now...just be ready to replace all of it if the lobe get's trashed.
As far as parts go, check out rocketracingperformance and summit. I am starting to have bad experiences with Mondello...you may want to shy away from them. If you have a question about what combinations work together just ask here...there are plenty of guys that will shoot straight with you.
As far as parts go, check out rocketracingperformance and summit. I am starting to have bad experiences with Mondello...you may want to shy away from them. If you have a question about what combinations work together just ask here...there are plenty of guys that will shoot straight with you.
May 7th, 2012, 08:48 PM
#5
You can get one lifter and try it but sometimes putting a new lifter on an old cam can wipe out the cam lobe. Some guys have had good experiences with it, others not so much. If it's not in your budget to get a whole new cam and lifter set then try replacing the one for now...just be ready to replace all of it if the lobe get's trashed.
As far as parts go, check out rocketracingperformance and summit. I am starting to have bad experiences with Mondello...you may want to shy away from them. If you have a question about what combinations work together just ask here...there are plenty of guys that will shoot straight with you.
As far as parts go, check out rocketracingperformance and summit. I am starting to have bad experiences with Mondello...you may want to shy away from them. If you have a question about what combinations work together just ask here...there are plenty of guys that will shoot straight with you.
Thanks Chris...
May 7th, 2012, 08:58 PM
#6
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It could be a bad lifter or it could have already eaten a lobe. How daring are you? You could pull the intake and answer the question. My fear is if you're hearing something worse than a lifter.
Also, trans fluid can be used as a cleaner but keep in mind, if you've got an older engine you could "clean" off some built up oil chunks and send them through the motor and make things worse. You can also introduce new leaks by cleaning off the oil residue on gasket mating surfaces.
Also, trans fluid can be used as a cleaner but keep in mind, if you've got an older engine you could "clean" off some built up oil chunks and send them through the motor and make things worse. You can also introduce new leaks by cleaning off the oil residue on gasket mating surfaces.
May 8th, 2012, 05:52 AM
#7
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it sounds like you've got a good starting point, i think i'd pull the engine before you do any serious damage and tear it down. have the crank turned & the engine bored. there are some great modern lightweight piston designs availabe, probe, cp, icon, & diamond (no particular order, just listing them as they come to mind). the old standby speed pro/sealed power are still great pistons but they are heavier and run a heavier ring pack... they are a great piston, just a dated design...
that engle grind, 20-22 has been around forever and is a great camshaft. i would recommend figuring out what your gear ratio is and decide what you want in regards to idle quality, stall speed & intended use of the car then select a cam.
that engle grind, 20-22 has been around forever and is a great camshaft. i would recommend figuring out what your gear ratio is and decide what you want in regards to idle quality, stall speed & intended use of the car then select a cam.
May 8th, 2012, 05:55 AM
#8
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i forgot about the heads, for what it would cost to have a set of heads redone & considering you'd have to buy a set of cores i'd simply buy a set of pro comps or edelbrocks. they'll flow great out of the box...
May 8th, 2012, 07:55 AM
#9
It could be a bad lifter or it could have already eaten a lobe. How daring are you? You could pull the intake and answer the question. My fear is if you're hearing something worse than a lifter.
Also, trans fluid can be used as a cleaner but keep in mind, if you've got an older engine you could "clean" off some built up oil chunks and send them through the motor and make things worse. You can also introduce new leaks by cleaning off the oil residue on gasket mating surfaces.
Also, trans fluid can be used as a cleaner but keep in mind, if you've got an older engine you could "clean" off some built up oil chunks and send them through the motor and make things worse. You can also introduce new leaks by cleaning off the oil residue on gasket mating surfaces.
May 8th, 2012, 07:58 AM
#10
I might ask if be ok to keep my heads I have now for temporary use? They are 403 head on 455 block. I just found out on CO with help from fellas such as yourself identifying numbers for me!!!
May 8th, 2012, 08:08 AM
#11
it sounds like you've got a good starting point, i think i'd pull the engine before you do any serious damage and tear it down. have the crank turned & the engine bored. there are some great modern lightweight piston designs availabe, probe, cp, icon, & diamond (no particular order, just listing them as they come to mind). the old standby speed pro/sealed power are still great pistons but they are heavier and run a heavier ring pack... they are a great piston, just a dated design...
that engle grind, 20-22 has been around forever and is a great camshaft. i would recommend figuring out what your gear ratio is and decide what you want in regards to idle quality, stall speed & intended use of the car then select a cam.
that engle grind, 20-22 has been around forever and is a great camshaft. i would recommend figuring out what your gear ratio is and decide what you want in regards to idle quality, stall speed & intended use of the car then select a cam.
May 8th, 2012, 03:28 PM
#12
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quick performance in Ames, Ia makes a nice, reasonably priced 9" set up for the "A" body... in fact 380racer on this site has one under his cutlass and it's a wheelstandin sob.
you need to decide on a rear end ratio before you pick a cam, or at least a general range, that will ensure that you don't get too carried away.
you need to decide on a rear end ratio before you pick a cam, or at least a general range, that will ensure that you don't get too carried away.
May 8th, 2012, 04:41 PM
#13
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Ok, here's my .02. Pull the valve covers and note which lifter/'s are noisey. Then pull the intake, remove only those rocker assy's that you found chattering. Pull those lifters and inspect them. Chances are they are somewhat concave on the bottom. Replace those lifters or you can purchase a whole set ($30-40.00). It is not bad to replace old lifters with new ones. Inspect all the push rods to make sure they are straight and put them back in the positions they came from.
Drain your oil and replace it with a good quality breakin oil with high Zddp levels.
Put the intake back on, and start the motor. Listen for any other valve noise in the rocker assy's. Replace the noisey ones ($15-20 per pair with rockers) or file the perches down a little bit and reassemble. Keep working at it until everything is quiet. Reinstall valve covers and accessories.
Drive it around for 500 miles and perform another oil change.
Now, drive the car and save your money until you can do it right. Believe me once all is quiet, you can drive the car a long time before it breaks. Decide what you want and budget for it. What ever number you arrive at for your budget, add another $1500 to it! Don't ask me how I know!
Good luck!
Drain your oil and replace it with a good quality breakin oil with high Zddp levels.
Put the intake back on, and start the motor. Listen for any other valve noise in the rocker assy's. Replace the noisey ones ($15-20 per pair with rockers) or file the perches down a little bit and reassemble. Keep working at it until everything is quiet. Reinstall valve covers and accessories.
Drive it around for 500 miles and perform another oil change.
Now, drive the car and save your money until you can do it right. Believe me once all is quiet, you can drive the car a long time before it breaks. Decide what you want and budget for it. What ever number you arrive at for your budget, add another $1500 to it! Don't ask me how I know!
Good luck!
May 8th, 2012, 07:43 PM
#14
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Ok, here's my .02. Pull the valve covers and note which lifter/'s are noisey. Then pull the intake, remove only those rocker assy's that you found chattering. Pull those lifters and inspect them. Chances are they are somewhat concave on the bottom. Replace those lifters or you can purchase a whole set ($30-40.00). It is not bad to replace old lifters with new ones. Inspect all the push rods to make sure they are straight and put them back in the positions they came from.
Drain your oil and replace it with a good quality breakin oil with high Zddp levels.
Put the intake back on, and start the motor. Listen for any other valve noise in the rocker assy's. Replace the noisey ones ($15-20 per pair with rockers) or file the perches down a little bit and reassemble. Keep working at it until everything is quiet. Reinstall valve covers and accessories.
Drive it around for 500 miles and perform another oil change.
Now, drive the car and save your money until you can do it right. Believe me once all is quiet, you can drive the car a long time before it breaks. Decide what you want and budget for it. What ever number you arrive at for your budget, add another $1500 to it! Don't ask me how I know!
Good luck!
Drain your oil and replace it with a good quality breakin oil with high Zddp levels.
Put the intake back on, and start the motor. Listen for any other valve noise in the rocker assy's. Replace the noisey ones ($15-20 per pair with rockers) or file the perches down a little bit and reassemble. Keep working at it until everything is quiet. Reinstall valve covers and accessories.
Drive it around for 500 miles and perform another oil change.
Now, drive the car and save your money until you can do it right. Believe me once all is quiet, you can drive the car a long time before it breaks. Decide what you want and budget for it. What ever number you arrive at for your budget, add another $1500 to it! Don't ask me how I know!
Good luck!
Also, you don't need a 9", the 8.5" corporate rear end can be built to handle street/strip duties no problem. Some guys have run them into the 10 sec range without problems. I wouldn't go there yet...plan your car, take your time and make smart purchases so you don't spend twice as much money.
May 8th, 2012, 08:13 PM
#15
Ok I wasnt exactly sure if the 9in was apropriate or not!! Like I had said though I mean I havnt a clue yet on how to pick my gear ration and so on!! I might be jumping the gun a lil before I have taking any of these classes for my degree! I havnt had differentials class yet either. Like I said as well when it comes to picking a cam and the lift duration im unsure!! But I did start to pull intake today or atleast attempted before I got buckled with my little ones. Needless to say I only got as far as dumping the antifreeze fromt the block and releasing few things here and there! as soon as I get intake off I will post pix of what I see! Im going to make my assumptions before I ask then see if Im wrong or right?
May 8th, 2012, 08:16 PM
#16
http://www.facebook.com/v/306522419422374" /><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/306522419422374" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="400" height="240"></embed></object> This is what Im hearing..listeng to the video seems a lilttle deceiving of the sound though!!!.
May 8th, 2012, 11:11 PM
#17
ok fellas all kiddos fell asleep and mommy@ so daddy went to work lol. SO I did take intake off and this is as far as I have came@ I would like some guidance on were to go next! I would like to check my lifters and cam>> ALso on the last picture I believe but, there is a hole that leads to were I would think the water pump is?? It on hole on front of motor in block is this suppose to be there?? lol
May 8th, 2012, 11:33 PM
#18
For the most part I agree with oldcutlass...but if you do pull the intake, a wiped out lobe will be fairly obvious. A bad lifter may not be as obvious. Any way you decide to do it, let us know and we can help guide you.
Also, you don't need a 9", the 8.5" corporate rear end can be built to handle street/strip duties no problem. Some guys have run them into the 10 sec range without problems. I wouldn't go there yet...plan your car, take your time and make smart purchases so you don't spend twice as much money.
Also, you don't need a 9", the 8.5" corporate rear end can be built to handle street/strip duties no problem. Some guys have run them into the 10 sec range without problems. I wouldn't go there yet...plan your car, take your time and make smart purchases so you don't spend twice as much money.
Ok so I was sitting here researching and thinking but I know that they make a tool for the lifters and or I could push them out w wooden dowel rod but neither is option for me... Possibly the tool, I might be able to rent from Autozone..??
May 9th, 2012, 05:18 AM
#19
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there is a tool it is a small slide hammer looking thing that has two claw type things on the end it will fit in the lifter bore then turn the adjustment nut which spreads the jaws/claws and when u feel you have a good grip pull up, make a holder out of cardboard and make sure you know which lifter came out of which bore if ur not replacing all of them. Otherwise you will have all kinds of noises, mostly cursing but clacking too.
May 9th, 2012, 06:22 AM
#20
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I use a hook or needle nose plyers. Sometimes there is some varnish built up on the bottoms, so just keep moving them up and down until it works its way out. A worn lifter is easy to recognize by the concave bottom. If they are not concave just put them back in the hole and repair or replace the rocker assy and perch.
Everything needs to go back to the exact place and position they came from if your reusing the old parts.
Just a note, the inside of your engine looks very clean! So the previous owner at least did his oil changes.
I can't tell from the pic, what is that inside the hole that you took a picture of? I think its an oil return.
Everything needs to go back to the exact place and position they came from if your reusing the old parts.
Just a note, the inside of your engine looks very clean! So the previous owner at least did his oil changes.
I can't tell from the pic, what is that inside the hole that you took a picture of? I think its an oil return.
May 9th, 2012, 06:50 AM
#21
I use a hook or needle nose plyers. Sometimes there is some varnish built up on the bottoms, so just keep moving them up and down until it works its way out. A worn lifter is easy to recognize by the concave bottom. If they are not concave just put them back in the hole and repair or replace the rocker assy and perch.
Everything needs to go back to the exact place and position they came from if your reusing the old parts.
Just a note, the inside of your engine looks very clean! So the previous owner at least did his oil changes.
I can't tell from the pic, what is that inside the hole that you took a picture of? I think its an oil return.
Everything needs to go back to the exact place and position they came from if your reusing the old parts.
Just a note, the inside of your engine looks very clean! So the previous owner at least did his oil changes.
I can't tell from the pic, what is that inside the hole that you took a picture of? I think its an oil return.
May 9th, 2012, 06:50 AM
#22
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ponderings?
Hey chris, I am just making sure about what you have... you say you have a 455 block with 403 heads on it? If this is true whats up with that? I mean I guess it is possible but really? what are the numbers stamped on the back of the block? Are you sure you don't just have a 403? if it is true, this issue will be causing you at the very least a ton of lost performance.... I just cant figure it
here is some info from here
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm
I am asking because I do not remember seeing a similar hole in my 455, I would seriously consider finding some correct cylinder heads. Just FYI, if it is indeed true and the motor doesn't smoke and such, it would be better to find a set of heads, remanufactured etc and it doesn't even matter which version any would be better compared to 403 heads? it may be something like the valve geometry isn't correct, I am no expert but I find the idea of 403 heads on a 455 bizzare at best, unlikely in my opinion.
ID/ CastingCode Year(s) CID Number Notes A '65 425 381917?? 1st year, big cars. 386525 B '65 400 389298 442 only, one year only. D '66 - '67 425 389244 Big-car engine. Toro is different internally. E '66 - '67 400 390925 442 engine [VERY rare]. F '68 - '70 455 396021 Common big block. Stick type F (sans serif). F '70 - '72 455 396021 Common big block. Serif type F. Two vertical and a base serif. Fa '72 - '76 455 396021 Very common big block. Marine also (L VIN derivative). G '68 - '69 400 396026 442/Vista/etc. engine. L '76 455 231788 Motorhome, marine and irrigation. GM made motorhomes from '73-8, maybe in all? Casting number appears as "231 [tiny 'L'] 788" on the block.ID/ CastingCode Year(s) CID Number Notes1 '64-'66 330 381917 45° cam bank angle.1A 330 381917 45° cam bank angle.2 '68-'76 350 3819172 '68-'70 350 3955583 '66-'67 330 394417 39° cam bank angle.45 '73,'74 350 3955582A '75-'81 260 Solid main webs for 2A's only? At least for '76.2B ??-'81 260 557751 Windowed main webs. Windowed main webs for 2B's only?3A '79 3503B '77-'80 350 5577524A '77 403 557265 Solid main webs possibly 553990 for these three 554990 casting numbers.4B '77-'79 403 557265 Windowed main webs always.?? '85 307 5566075A '81- 307 3161D3 350 7582 Diesel
here is some info from here
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm
I am asking because I do not remember seeing a similar hole in my 455, I would seriously consider finding some correct cylinder heads. Just FYI, if it is indeed true and the motor doesn't smoke and such, it would be better to find a set of heads, remanufactured etc and it doesn't even matter which version any would be better compared to 403 heads? it may be something like the valve geometry isn't correct, I am no expert but I find the idea of 403 heads on a 455 bizzare at best, unlikely in my opinion.
ID/ CastingCode Year(s) CID Number Notes A '65 425 381917?? 1st year, big cars. 386525 B '65 400 389298 442 only, one year only. D '66 - '67 425 389244 Big-car engine. Toro is different internally. E '66 - '67 400 390925 442 engine [VERY rare]. F '68 - '70 455 396021 Common big block. Stick type F (sans serif). F '70 - '72 455 396021 Common big block. Serif type F. Two vertical and a base serif. Fa '72 - '76 455 396021 Very common big block. Marine also (L VIN derivative). G '68 - '69 400 396026 442/Vista/etc. engine. L '76 455 231788 Motorhome, marine and irrigation. GM made motorhomes from '73-8, maybe in all? Casting number appears as "231 [tiny 'L'] 788" on the block.ID/ CastingCode Year(s) CID Number Notes1 '64-'66 330 381917 45° cam bank angle.1A 330 381917 45° cam bank angle.2 '68-'76 350 3819172 '68-'70 350 3955583 '66-'67 330 394417 39° cam bank angle.45 '73,'74 350 3955582A '75-'81 260 Solid main webs for 2A's only? At least for '76.2B ??-'81 260 557751 Windowed main webs. Windowed main webs for 2B's only?3A '79 3503B '77-'80 350 5577524A '77 403 557265 Solid main webs possibly 553990 for these three 554990 casting numbers.4B '77-'79 403 557265 Windowed main webs always.?? '85 307 5566075A '81- 307 3161D3 350 7582 Diesel
May 9th, 2012, 06:56 AM
#23
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I see you did check the numbers after I went back and reread this whole thing, I still think you need to find some correct heads for this thing, you have the manifold off already, removing the heads, adding new gaskets and bolting and torquing a decent set of heads isn't that big a deal labor wise, price is another matter but with all the aluminum heads being used you should be able to find a set of steel heads reasonably priced it is amazing that this thing had any power at all.
May 9th, 2012, 07:05 AM
#24
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they even have remanufactured ones at autozone, I mean I used 1975 but you can try and find the best flowing heads available, I am sure guys here on the forum would have sets for sale but a fully rebuilt one is 279 + 50 for the core ( each)
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...76_238386_6258_
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...76_238386_6258_
May 9th, 2012, 07:24 AM
#25
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May 9th, 2012, 07:26 AM
#26
yes that hole is normal! I went on youtube and starting browsing videos and seen similar on other olds blocks! I agree with you hansen but im not using same words as you! Im somewhat Ticked to find out that I have set of 403 heads on 455?? Its like is that physically possible lol? Obviously! IM proof lol. Im about go outside and finish taking valve covers off and attempt to pull atleast the one lifter Im suspecting is the problem and go from there! This site is amazing and Im thankfiul to of found it and thankful for everyones help.. I will soon post pix of the lifters etc... Also anyone listen to video and tell me what you thought about the noise??
May 9th, 2012, 05:33 PM
#27
Heres THe Latest... Tell me what ya think??
ok obviously my lifter is shot! As for my cam kinda hard to tell! I see normal wear on the lobes and look close at this first pix the lobe has burs on it and I cant tell how much is gone if any? It doesnt look as thick as the rest of the lobes? Tell me would it be ok to replace just the one lifter for now and see what happens?? Thanks CHris
May 9th, 2012, 07:21 PM
#28
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Hate to say it, but it looks like the cam is munched too. If you're willing to take a chance on a used cam and lifters, I have an Engle JM 20-22 with lifters I'll sell you cheap. It only had a few hundred miles on it before being pulled. Lifters are sorted so they can be matched up with the same lobe.
That said, unless you are on a super tight budget, the safest bet is to spring for a cam and lifter kit. If you shop around you can find a complete kit from a reputable company for as little as $150.00. Pretty cheap for the heart of your engine.
That said, unless you are on a super tight budget, the safest bet is to spring for a cam and lifter kit. If you shop around you can find a complete kit from a reputable company for as little as $150.00. Pretty cheap for the heart of your engine.
May 9th, 2012, 08:54 PM
#29
Hate to say it, but it looks like the cam is munched too. If you're willing to take a chance on a used cam and lifters, I have an Engle JM 20-22 with lifters I'll sell you cheap. It only had a few hundred miles on it before being pulled. Lifters are sorted so they can be matched up with the same lobe.
That said, unless you are on a super tight budget, the safest bet is to spring for a cam and lifter kit. If you shop around you can find a complete kit from a reputable company for as little as $150.00. Pretty cheap for the heart of your engine.
That said, unless you are on a super tight budget, the safest bet is to spring for a cam and lifter kit. If you shop around you can find a complete kit from a reputable company for as little as $150.00. Pretty cheap for the heart of your engine.
May 9th, 2012, 09:32 PM
#30
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Thanks but Im thinking cam and lifter set new soon hopefully. Whats the worst that could happen if I did just replace that one lifter and go with it for a while? Also can i replace the cam wout replacing cam bearings? And or how to tell if they are bad when my motor still in car? Thanks Chris
1. The hole in the block is a oil drain hole, it is supposed to be there. However, the flat piece of metal sticking up that is visible through that hole should not be there. I don't know what it is...but it is in the wrong place.
2. Your cam is wiped out. You will do nothing by replacing the lifter but ruin a brand new lifter. My advice, call Engle and get a 20-22 cam and lifters brand new. When you open the front of the engine up to install the cam, take a pic of the metal I mentioned above and let me have a look. Again, it shouldn't be there but if I can identify it I might be able to spot another problem that you can fix at the same time.
Notes:
1. If you look at your turkey tray gasket you will see oil that is burnt right up next to the exhaust crossover, that is an indication that your intake gasket was leaking at that point. The oil was being cooked and caked onto the turkey tray.
2. When you change your cam, you don't necessarily need new bearings...it is a good idea however. BUT to do that, you will need to remove the engine and take it to a machine shop to do it right...and if you do that you might as well rebuild it all.
3. If you decide to change the cam without pulling the motor, at the very least replace your timing chain.
May 9th, 2012, 09:39 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
Oops, I forgot one thing. All that metal that is missing from the cam and lifter...guess what? It's somewhere...in your engine. If you aren't going to rebuild it you need to do your repairs and fill it up with new oil and filter to break in the cam. After that break in, you need to drain and refill with new oil to get all of that metal out of the engine. I hope that get's most of it out...if not you may be facing a rebuild if it gets in the bearings or wipes another cam lobe.
May 9th, 2012, 10:04 PM
#32
Telecom Guru
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 172
Me personally, if I were buying a brand new cam and lifters, I probably would look at other options besides the Engle. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not necessarily the only good option for you. Also, if I remember correctly you'll need stiffer valve springs than stock to go with that cam, due to the aggressive ramps. But I could be mistaken about that.
Unless I overlooked something, there is no mention of compression ratio, so I don't think we can say for sure what cam is the best choice. If you've been talking to an engine builder about pistons and other stuff, get them to help you look at the complete package. There are lots of varaibles that all need to be coordinated to get the best possible result:
Intake tract
Exhaust system
Compression ratio
Torque converter stall speed
Final drive ratio
Vehicle weight
Available fuel octane
Intended use - does it need power brakes? Driving in stop and go traffic in hot wheather? Running A/C?
Driveability requirements - is your spouse/girlfriend going to be mad if she ends up smelling like unburnt fuel every time she rides in the car? How do you want it to idle? Etc.
Best bet is to run through all that stuff with someone who has been around the block and has a good idea how to get you there. Trial and error can be fun, and if you have the time/money to do it I wouldn't discourage you. But there's nothing wrong with leaning on someone's experience to save you some time and effort.
Unless I overlooked something, there is no mention of compression ratio, so I don't think we can say for sure what cam is the best choice. If you've been talking to an engine builder about pistons and other stuff, get them to help you look at the complete package. There are lots of varaibles that all need to be coordinated to get the best possible result:
Intake tract
Exhaust system
Compression ratio
Torque converter stall speed
Final drive ratio
Vehicle weight
Available fuel octane
Intended use - does it need power brakes? Driving in stop and go traffic in hot wheather? Running A/C?
Driveability requirements - is your spouse/girlfriend going to be mad if she ends up smelling like unburnt fuel every time she rides in the car? How do you want it to idle? Etc.
Best bet is to run through all that stuff with someone who has been around the block and has a good idea how to get you there. Trial and error can be fun, and if you have the time/money to do it I wouldn't discourage you. But there's nothing wrong with leaning on someone's experience to save you some time and effort.
Last edited by jslabotsky; May 9th, 2012 at 10:07 PM.
May 10th, 2012, 02:51 AM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 135
I noticed that metal "sticking up" thru the oil drain hole as well....It MIGHT be the lifter oil galley plug behind the timing chain(which you can see a bit in the photo)
Something to me doesn't seem right with those lifters.....seems the oil groove is in the wrong place(like a chebby lifter). and why are the lifter so far down in the lifter guide? what's the base circle on this cam(or what's left of it)
Just .02
Greg
Something to me doesn't seem right with those lifters.....seems the oil groove is in the wrong place(like a chebby lifter). and why are the lifter so far down in the lifter guide? what's the base circle on this cam(or what's left of it)
Just .02
Greg
May 10th, 2012, 09:29 AM
#36
Sorry, I've been absent for a day and you've made plenty of progress. Lemme answer the questions you've had even though you found most of your answers already.
1. The hole in the block is a oil drain hole, it is supposed to be there. However, the flat piece of metal sticking up that is visible through that hole should not be there. I don't know what it is...but it is in the wrong place.
2. Your cam is wiped out. You will do nothing by replacing the lifter but ruin a brand new lifter. My advice, call Engle and get a 20-22 cam and lifters brand new. When you open the front of the engine up to install the cam, take a pic of the metal I mentioned above and let me have a look. Again, it shouldn't be there but if I can identify it I might be able to spot another problem that you can fix at the same time.
Notes:
1. If you look at your turkey tray gasket you will see oil that is burnt right up next to the exhaust crossover, that is an indication that your intake gasket was leaking at that point. The oil was being cooked and caked onto the turkey tray.
2. When you change your cam, you don't necessarily need new bearings...it is a good idea however. BUT to do that, you will need to remove the engine and take it to a machine shop to do it right...and if you do that you might as well rebuild it all.
3. If you decide to change the cam without pulling the motor, at the very least replace your timing chain.
1. The hole in the block is a oil drain hole, it is supposed to be there. However, the flat piece of metal sticking up that is visible through that hole should not be there. I don't know what it is...but it is in the wrong place.
2. Your cam is wiped out. You will do nothing by replacing the lifter but ruin a brand new lifter. My advice, call Engle and get a 20-22 cam and lifters brand new. When you open the front of the engine up to install the cam, take a pic of the metal I mentioned above and let me have a look. Again, it shouldn't be there but if I can identify it I might be able to spot another problem that you can fix at the same time.
Notes:
1. If you look at your turkey tray gasket you will see oil that is burnt right up next to the exhaust crossover, that is an indication that your intake gasket was leaking at that point. The oil was being cooked and caked onto the turkey tray.
2. When you change your cam, you don't necessarily need new bearings...it is a good idea however. BUT to do that, you will need to remove the engine and take it to a machine shop to do it right...and if you do that you might as well rebuild it all.
3. If you decide to change the cam without pulling the motor, at the very least replace your timing chain.
May 10th, 2012, 09:35 AM
#37
Me personally, if I were buying a brand new cam and lifters, I probably would look at other options besides the Engle. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not necessarily the only good option for you. Also, if I remember correctly you'll need stiffer valve springs than stock to go with that cam, due to the aggressive ramps. But I could be mistaken about that.
Unless I overlooked something, there is no mention of compression ratio, so I don't think we can say for sure what cam is the best choice. If you've been talking to an engine builder about pistons and other stuff, get them to help you look at the complete package. There are lots of varaibles that all need to be coordinated to get the best possible result:
Intake tract
Exhaust system
Compression ratio
Torque converter stall speed
Final drive ratio
Vehicle weight
Available fuel octane
Intended use - does it need power brakes? Driving in stop and go traffic in hot wheather? Running A/C?
Driveability requirements - is your spouse/girlfriend going to be mad if she ends up smelling like unburnt fuel every time she rides in the car? How do you want it to idle? Etc.
Best bet is to run through all that stuff with someone who has been around the block and has a good idea how to get you there. Trial and error can be fun, and if you have the time/money to do it I wouldn't discourage you. But there's nothing wrong with leaning on someone's experience to save you some time and effort.
Unless I overlooked something, there is no mention of compression ratio, so I don't think we can say for sure what cam is the best choice. If you've been talking to an engine builder about pistons and other stuff, get them to help you look at the complete package. There are lots of varaibles that all need to be coordinated to get the best possible result:
Intake tract
Exhaust system
Compression ratio
Torque converter stall speed
Final drive ratio
Vehicle weight
Available fuel octane
Intended use - does it need power brakes? Driving in stop and go traffic in hot wheather? Running A/C?
Driveability requirements - is your spouse/girlfriend going to be mad if she ends up smelling like unburnt fuel every time she rides in the car? How do you want it to idle? Etc.
Best bet is to run through all that stuff with someone who has been around the block and has a good idea how to get you there. Trial and error can be fun, and if you have the time/money to do it I wouldn't discourage you. But there's nothing wrong with leaning on someone's experience to save you some time and effort.
May 10th, 2012, 09:40 AM
#38
I noticed that metal "sticking up" thru the oil drain hole as well....It MIGHT be the lifter oil galley plug behind the timing chain(which you can see a bit in the photo)
Something to me doesn't seem right with those lifters.....seems the oil groove is in the wrong place(like a chebby lifter). and why are the lifter so far down in the lifter guide? what's the base circle on this cam(or what's left of it)
Just .02
Greg
Something to me doesn't seem right with those lifters.....seems the oil groove is in the wrong place(like a chebby lifter). and why are the lifter so far down in the lifter guide? what's the base circle on this cam(or what's left of it)
Just .02
Greg
May 10th, 2012, 09:44 AM
#39
May 10th, 2012, 09:49 AM
#40
Well next step since got so much of internal motor exposed and only cover with plastic and rags I decided clean out garage to pull car in and finish work there...Floor is dirt so pain in a** and its extremely dark in there because of poor lighting and no windows. SO im going to put some windows in today and then get back to work on car! pleas stay subscribed fellas I love the info and is very helpful!!! Thanks Chris
