sethj78

I am finally getting around to building my 455. I have a guy wanting to sell me a factory forged crank, high nickel (maybe an E) block and C heads. I have GA heads and a nodular crank from a 1970 455, and everything I have is in good shape but I spun a rod bearing and need the rod journals turned. Would anyone know what they are worth and how I would I identify these things, if I even need them. The deal is I am selling my motorcycle and listed in the ad that I may make trades for olds big block stuff. How much should I come down off the price? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

wmachine

Well, first of all, the "high nickel block" is a myth.
Forged 455 cranks are very rare, so I'd be absolutely sure it is forged if that what you're expecting to get.
C heads are great, but they'd have to be verified as being the big valve type. C heads were made for 3 years and were made in small and big valve versions without any external indications.

sethj78

I read your thread about wanting a piece of a block to test it but didn't c if you made a determination. Do you know how to identify a forged crank? Is it the wide parting line, I have been reading stuff on the net?

wmachine

Among other things, my metallurgical background convinces me that the "high nickel" is a myth. I'm just going to officially put it to rest with hard test results.
Check the rear of the crank, where the flexplate or flywheel bolts on. On the OD of that surface is a notch.
J shaped notch with round corner is a forged 455
C shaped notch is cast
L shaped notch with sharp corner is pre-68 crank, or 68-70? nodular small block crank.
Cast crank will have a relatively thin parting line along the horizontal center. The forged crank will have a much thicker parting line. (Due to the the differences in the forging vs the cast process)

http://www.oldsmobilewiki.com/index....rged_455_Crank
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....identification
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....t=forged+crank

sethj78

What would the crank b worth if it were forged? How bout the the value of the heads, big valve and small valve C heads.

2blu442

You said maybe an E block, if so that would be a 1966-67 400 engine and they all had forged steel cranks. The 455 should have an F or Fa at the end of the number between the water pump and intake manifold. John

sethj78

Well if anyone is interested in these things let me know and a value and I'll get it to u for what I get it for and ship it. Whats the block worth?

70Post

As far as "needing them" to the point of paying a lot of extra $$ for the crank and block....you don't NEED them. There are a jillion Olds's out there making SERIOUS horsepower with cast cranks.

As far as the block...yes, I think Olds used a higher nickel content in a lot of their blocks over the years, so it's not like this particular block the guy has is anything unique in terms of metallurgy.

Also....your GA heads are also fine for a strong running street car or even a racecar. If they don't have the big valves in them you can get them cut for them.

Go look at the crank and block and find a casting number on each one and post it here.

oldsonharmont

[quote=wmachine;88662]Among other things, my metallurgical background convinces me that the "high nickel" is a myth.

Kurt, I'm certainly not the expert on this, but have always heard that high nickel blocks were common in engines from Olds, Lincoln, American Motors etc. And the only reason a Chevy had four bolt mains was due to their cheaper casting quality. My neighbor has an engine rebuilding business and he'll tell you there is a difference in these blocks. If you say it's a myth, then I'd like to know more.

sethj78

I wasn't going to use the block but if I had a chance to get a forged crank then I would definitely use it (I'm hard on engines) and anything I can do to get more power. So any tips on a 455 build before I get started? I all ready have a roller tappet cam need a set of big valves and a good intake.

wmachine

[QUOTE=oldsonharmont;88788]Patton, Mike. I respectfully ask anyone who thinks or knows that Olds has "high nickel" blocks to submit some proof or substantiation of the claim other than "they heard".
Nickel is *not* an alloy that would add strength or hardness or wear resistance. Nickel is actually relatively soft. Nickel is used for added corrosion resistance and especially for heat resistance.
I've already tested some early 400 blocks and there is virtually *no* nickel in them. What makes more sense is a Chromium addition. And there *is* some chrome in those same blocks.
It is possible that the "high nickel" myth is actually *truth decay* of a "high chrome" situation that really does exist. Not so much that it is "high" chrome, as it is that it has *some* chrome as opposed to none as basic Gray Iron would have. Even a couple % chrome would have a very significant impact on the physical properties of the iron.
I'd like to be able to finish testing of various blocks just to offer proof positive that the "high nickel" is a myth. "Tested them, no nickel" would need no further explanation.

88 coupe

Think about the definition of a myth.

A lot of people tell us a lot of things. Many of them are simply repeating what they "heard".

Until he documents it, it is just another myth.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ur-engine.html

Norm

88 coupe

4.125" bore x 4.25" stroke

All "E" blocks came with forged cranks, but with a 3.975" stroke. In a 425/455 (4.125" bore) block, it will be about 30 inches short of a 455.

Be aware that all Olds iron cranks are cast with nodular iron. I have heard that the "N" shows it was cast on the "night shift".

A crank, reground to fit your unique application, is a far better choice than any one from a production line.

Norm

380 Racer

[quote=wmachine;88841] OK, I was told...............by my machinest/engine builder that my Olds blocks were harder than Chevy/Ford/Mopar production blocks. My DX, Mega Block and Dart blocks top the list now days as being the hardest material. Whether it's nickel or not. It's much easier to say nickel tho.

Nick

oldsonharmont

I guess many of us are under the assumption that the the Olds blocks (and Cadillac, and Lincoln etc...) were a higher quality iron whether it's nickel or chrome. Isn't this the same way most urban legends are born?

My engine builder friend still contends they are higher quality than a regular ford or chevy.

Another story (or myth if you prefer) has it that components were graded A, B, C etc... with A stuff going into Lincolns and C stuff going into regular fords.

My apologies to the guy who started this thread if we've gone too far off topic here.

sethj78

Any info is helpful I learned what I needed! I sold my motorcycle saterday so I been cleaning up the 455 and took the crank to the machine shop to have checked yesterday!! The whole reason I started this tread was that someone wanted to trade some olds stuff for my bike. A high nickel E block was 1 but the guy was B.S. ing.

wmachine

Cool! Progress is a good thing!

My442

My bet is that the formula for the cast iron that Olds used was specified in their enginerring documentation.

They had a tried and true recipe for the castings.

The only definative way to know for sure is to get the engineering drawings, and then compare the specs to other GM makes.

Otherwise, it is another urban internet legend......

wmachine

I'm much farther down the trail with this.
Of course they *had* specifications for their castings. And they were cast along with the other GM blocks at GM's Central Foundy Division.
But those records are gone.
No, getting the "engineering drawings" (actually the material specifications) is not the only way. The castings obviously still exist and *can* be tested for actual chemistry. So it doesn't have to be an "urban internet legend" even if the records are gone. And btw, this was an "urban legend" even before there was the internet.

wmachine

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-engine-2.html

Information update. See post #42