1971

Getting down to the last few parts for my 455 rebuild. Need pistons and rockers/pushrods. Looking at a few pistons but need to make sure I have the right numbers so I get my compression ratio correct. As far as I can tell my g and e heads have a 80cc volume? Is that right? I am assuming the 62 cc heads are w machines and hurst olds stuff. There is a sealed power forged piston 0.40 over which I will be doing, with a 18cc dish which should get me 9:7:1 comp ratio. Going to get all of the deck and head mill specs from the machine shop in the morning. So?? sounds right or am I going to have a horrible 1980 455 compression ratio of 6:1 or something. Thanks guys!!

TripDeuces

BTR's book lists them as 82cc.

cutlassefi

Yes and how much deck clearance do you have? Have you considered the IC886's? Great piston, lighter, stronger, better ring pack, slightly smaller dish and .015 taller. Just a thought.

1971

IC 886? Is that a sealed power or another brand? I know just enough to make myself dangerous here. I am going for a 9:5:1 or so CR I could go up or down a bit if I need to, even 9 7 1 would be ok. Just want it to stay semi friendly if you know what I mean. I am going to get my numbers from the Machine shop tomorrow. The other factor is cost, getting to the end of the buying and I am a bit over budget already, and by a bit I mean a lot! Looking for $300 or so for the pistons. Still need to blow 300 or so on rockers and pushrods.

64Rocket

"CutlassEFI" is referring to "KB" pistons, "Keith Black" is the brand. Lighter and a little cheaper. If the heads you have are untouched then they are 80cc's or more. Almost always they are 84cc's. For the money you may spend on rebuilding the iron heads, you can buy NEW aluminum heads and be better off.
Just my thoughts.
Gene

ah64pilot

I wouldn't say the KB's are a little cheaper. If I remember correctly they ran me $500 for a set. Also, I'm a firm believer in aluminum heads, they will allow you to run higher compression on pump gas without detonation, among other things. The only problem I have with them is the fuel pump issue...I'd still rather use a mechanical pump that supports 500 hp than an electric, call me crazy. Wish someone would develop one :/

507OLDS

Any good aftermarket piston out there is going to cost more than $300.00 for a set.The Speed-Pros are nice,but I tend to use those for a restoration engine.There are a lot better designs now,and a variety of selection in the 21st century.If something is not quite in your budget,then wait.Save your money.

cutlassefi

Thanks Gene, I guess I should have mentioned the brand as well, sorry.

And with the introduction of the new Procomp heads that's true more than ever.
Also some fuel pumps will work with the aluminum heads, I used a Mr Gasket on the last build, it just made it.

Lee_A

???? On the 455 I recently sold, we had Edelbrock aluminum heads and I ran a mechanical fuel pump on it. No problem at all. You can see it in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42GdAwlRBIk

On the otherhand, I've ran Mallory 140 pumps on two different low-11 street cars, and have had zero problems with them.

[back on topic] I ran G heads on my old 455 for a long time, before swapping over to the Edelbrocks. I don't have the notes any more, but know we ran Badger flat-top pistons at first, and had detonation problems. Later installed the Keith Black dished pistons, and it then ran fine on 93 octane. When we installed the Edebrock aluminum heads, the motor ran fine on 89 octane.

Lee

citcapp

Watch Craigs list and E-bay. I bought my Keith Black pistons with the ring pack from a member on ROP. brand new, he had changed direction on his build. Paid $325.00 for them. If your not in a hurry you can find deals

507OLDS

The Holley/MrGasket mechanical pumps are just a fancy stock replacement.they don't do much more than an AC Delco,but they will clear the Edelbrocks.The high-output RobbMc pump has a larger diameter body,and it interferes with the square edge of the Edelbrock head.Some have ground a notch,but you can hit water,or get real close to it.I don't think you are at the point where you will run out of fuel though.
As far as electric pumps,the mallory 140 is nice & quiet,but it was real finnicky with ANY dirt or debris that tried to pass through it.I had a real good prefilter,but even the smallest spec of dust would lock it up,and you would have to take it apart.The Aeromotive pumps work real well,and don't have that type of problem.However,the electrical pumps are made to push,and need to be gravity-fed,so they need to be at the lowest point of the fuel system,which is why you either need a fuel cell,or a sumped tank,with the pump mounted below & behind the sump.Some people don't mind the look of that,while some do.

Lee_A

Brian, both of my cars go crossgrain to your comments!

First, my old '67 Firebird already had the Mallory 140 installed when I bought the car. It was old and crusty at that time (mid 90's), worked flawlessly for the 10 years I owned it, and last I heard was still going strong. It was(is) mounted in front of the tank, and draws through the stock location (but with a larger supply line) fuel pickup! No sump, no cell, just totally stock pump. It had a Fram carttidge filter, and I only changed it once while I owned the car. Never locked up or had any problems.

My Falcon wagon also has a Mallory 140, mounted forward of the totally stock tank. Like the 'bird, I installed a larger feed line into the stock pick-up, but again no tank mods at all. I have a Summit in-line filter between the tank and the pump, and again have had zero issues.

I had bout an Aeromotive pump to use on the Cutlass, before I decided to do the engine swap. I sold that pump to a buddy, and he now has it feeding his 455 Trans Am.

Who knows, maybe I've just been lucky

507OLDS

I'd say real lucky.If your car left with enough force,the pump would not be able to suck the gas up.That is why you see a lot of fuel cells & sumped tanks for hard-leaving cars.Yes,I have friends with electric pumps mounted up,in front of the tanks,but they aren't making the power that would starve the pump.
I,myself,tried to mount my 140 up higher,behind the sump,so it wasn't as visible,but everytime the fuel level in the tank got below the level of the pump,it woul die,so that was enough with that.I lowered the pump down,so that the inlet port was level with the port of the sump,and I have a Summit,or similar filter in between.
It would not be real funny,if you stood the car up at the tree,starved it,and then had it come crashing down,popping the bottoms of the fenders out,and bending the frame.I've seen that happen.Not only can you learn from your own mistakes,but you can also learn from watching others,and make note not to even bother trying to do that.

ah64pilot

I am running a stock fuel pump...I just threw one on there to get the thing running so I could drive it. I think eventually I need a better pump. I'm worried that at the top end we aren't getting enough fuel.

Brian, are you talking to me? Do you think I'm ok running a stock fuel pump on my motor? Remember we made 492hp / 544 tq... I've been begging for someone to make a stock pump that'll support 500hp AND clear the Edelbrocks...but if the stock pump is ok then I'll just run with it.

Lee, what do you think?

Lee_A

wheelsup-1.jpg

Exactly how much force are you talking about? This is a picture of the car on a 1.56 60' run. It went as quick at 1.53, still never had a single hiccup. My Falcon has gone as quick as 1.58, as well, and no issues.

Maybe 8 and 9 second cars have that problem, but those typically have cells anyway.

Stephen, hook up a wideband and do some testing! If it leans out, the pump isn't keeping up. Or run a fuel pressure gauge where you can read it while driving. I woldn't change the pump until I knew I really needed to - the stock pump MAY surprise you. Oh, avoid ANY of the chrome-plated mechanical pumps, I've seen too many of them crack.

cutlassefi

With all due respect Brian, that glorified AC/Mr Gasket pump had no problem supporting 450+hp.

507OLDS

What I was saying about the Holley/MrGasket,is that they DO move more volume,compared to a stock AC Delco,but it is not as much as your electric pumps,or the RobbMc pump.The other problem I have seen with the Holley/MrGasket,is that the neck has broken or cracked,spitting everything out.Maybe they have improved the castings or the quality of the material since then.When I have installed them,I tested them by running the output into a bucket,and spinning the engine over.I have had some that really threw it in there,while others would just sputter it out.As with everything,I would not want to install or build something that is "just good enough".I want more than enough.
Lee,
It's great that all is working well.Put that thing on the back bumper,and let me know how that works out for you.
We could go on and on about pump outputs and fuel line sizes,and what works for what.Some guys are getting away with the RobbMc pump,and stock 3/8" lines,while others have the same pump,and 1/2" line,or less pump & bigger line.Just make sure you have more than what you need,and not "just enough" to get by.
Sorry about getting off topic about heads & CC's.

ah64pilot

I'd rather have too much fuel than not enough...I can always regulate it. BTW, anyone know of a high HP mechanical pump that will clear Edelbrock heads? ANY507ONE? lol!