Stevec

Drove to Rochester NY yesterday to drop off my 455 block and parts at BTR. Bill gave me a tour of his shop and we got to talk about my engine and also got to shoot the sh*t a little bit. He showed me some of the builds he's got going on at the moment and let me tell ya I had a hard time not drooling all over his shop floor. Lots of high performance builds,parts and beautiful complete engines waiting to get shipped. Yes its expensive! But I have a feeling it will be worth it!

I know some of you guys think he is overrated but I gotta tell ya, I've been in the automotive biz 20 plus years and I was very impressed! There's a beautiful 67 camaro here in town who drives by my house and mashes the throttle....God I cant wait to blow the doors off that chebby!

allyolds68

I've never bought anything from Bill, only brought and picked up other poeple's engines. He always takes the time to show me what's new around the shop. One of these days I'd like to stop by when he's dynoing an engine.

I live less than an hour away and routinely travel to most of Southern New England for work so if you ever need anything dropped off I can usually work it in. Most people want to pick their motors up themselves because Bill usually dyno's them on pick up day.

gearheads78

Sweet. I'm jealous. Keep us posted of the progress!!

Bernhard

From every picture or video of Bill's builds that I have seen, they have always looked top self. You only get what you pay for and his prices seem to be right in the ballpark compared to other engine builders.
Are you going to track test your build when you get it back?
I would like to find out why others think he is over rated because he has a EMC engine to stand behind, class championships with his 7 sec Starfire as well as records. He also ran a 70 W 30 stocker, that is not a easy year or model to run, car is hard factored. Bill has also shared his skills in a book a you tube video and on his web site.

Good luck with your build, look forward to reading about it.
Bernhard

Stevec

It won't be ready till January but I will share info and pics as I get them.

ROCKET VAPOR

I would love to see the look on his face when you do!!!

cutlassefi

If you would be so kind, please do us all a favor. If you're going to have it dynoed at his place tell him you want some heat in the motor, at least 160 or better. His 110-120 water out temps result in bullshyt numbers. Not much you can do about cool air temps in Jan but at least the water temps can be made reasonable.

Thank you and best of luck in your build.

Stevec

Ill mention it to him Mark.

380 Racer

I agree with Mark. The last dyno I was on, the water temp was 170* for "Real World Pulls". I always use independent dyno shops. I know of a circle track shop who's dyno always read 50-60HP higher than others. When asked why, I was told HP sells motors .

cutlassefi

I appreciate that but he won't do it. He can't pound his chest as much if he does.

olds 307 and 403

I have seen one of his motors, 496 I believe, run 6.40's in the 1/8 at our track. It did crack the block badly eventually but no outside carnage. Aluminum rods and quality parts, no girdle on the flimsy BBO block. Bill at least deliver's as promised, a huge problem in the Olds community.

Bernhard

I have never seen Bill pound his chest, his results speak for themselves.
Could you show me any negative posts about Bills work.

I know there is others that can build a good Olds engine but how many have as good a feedback or results. I have read one bad post after another about other Olds engine builders.

Great olds engine builders list

Warren Johnston
Dave Smith
Bill BTR

You can add who you like feel free

380 Racer

My engine builder is a Mopar Guy. Does good work and did his homework when he first did my motors. I would put him up against Travato any day. Oh and his engines have OIL Pressure and last.

cutlassefi

Who's Warren Johnston? It's Warren Johnson.
You're right, he doesn't have to pound his chest. But answer this, why would you continually do dyno pulls at cold water temps, on a street build? To hype the numbers, plain and simple. He seems to be the only one to keep doing it.
And trust me, he's not perfect either, no one is. Believe me there are guys out there that haven't been totally satisfied with a BTR build in one way or another.

380 Racer

Should have been around ROP a few years ago when he and his best friend Andy Miller teamed up to be the "Gods" of Oldsmobiles.

cutlassefi

Let me set the record straight, again.
Do I think Bill is an accomplished engine builder? Absolutely. Do I believe publishing that book is a big deal? Yes I do. I did a 45 minute EFI video and I know how hard that was.
Has Bill done some good things for the Oldsmobile community? Absolutely.

But he's not God, and there are other very good engine builders out there that don't see a need to charge what he does. 12K for a 500 hp street build, really? That's ridiculous. Plus his CNC block machining program that he makes such a big deal about is flawed. He locates off the dowels, they're not always in the right place.
A few years ago on his forum he posted that he was thinking about doing an EFI build for the EMC that year. I answered the post, pm'd him AND sent him an email offering my help and maybe some support from Accel etc. He never answered one message, not one. No "hey I got it thanks", no "go jump in the lake", nothing. Suppose I later wanted him to do a build for me? I'll bet he'd answer then. What does that tell you. It tells me he thinks he's better than the rest. He's not.
One more thing. He did that turbo build on video. One part of it was "his mods" to an MSD distributor for the ECU. He had to ream the gear to fit the shaft etc. Big deal, I've had EFI and a Dual sync style distributor on my Cutlass since '04, no reaming, nothing, dropped right in. In fact mine was the first Oldsmobile one Mallory had done to that point. Did I make a video about it? No. Have I ever mentioned that before now? No.
You don't think he was pounding his chest? Watch the video and decide for yourself.

Thanks.
Steve, sorry to hijack your post. Best of luck in your project, really, I wish you all the best.

chadman

Hi guys!

507OLDS

I see a need to charge that.It chases away the majority of the jobs that you wouldn't want to do anyway.I do the same thing.My time is very valuable.I have plenty of time to spend in the ground.Not as much time above ground.
I've actually been standing there when someone came in,asking how his prices compare to other shops.His reply was,"I am probably the most expensive." I would have done the same thing.It comes from experience,having good customers,and dealing with idiots.You learn how to weed them out.
If you look at a list of what he does when machining just the block,there are things on there that others are not doing.We can argue if they are needed or not,but that is how he does them,period.As far as inflated numbers go,absolutely not.The engines make great power,and the numbers prove true when going down the track.In most cases,the car has actually gone faster than expected.There have been times when the customer was expecting bigger numbers,but got smaller numbers,but then all was good when the time slips spelled the truth out.He does not boast any crazy flow numbers either.The heads on the EMC engine were nothing to brag about,but look how it did in the competition,pretty good.
As for the 9-sec 496,in the burgundy 70 442 drag car,that cracked: There is an example of an engine that made more power than expected,and the owner trying to "get by" with a budget.That engine had a factory N-crank,which is fine,but there was no girdle or main support system.That is what Nate wanted.There was some hashing back & forth about that,but it was built like that anyway.Look what happened.You won't see Bill do that again because look who gets blamed.It's always the guy that builds it.That is also why he does not like people bringing in a pile of parts & expecting him to build an engine.He would rather figure out what your goals & intentions are,and get the correct parts the first time around.
Bill's shop,and all of the equipment in it is top-notch.He did not skimp on anything.Just put your feet in there,and you will find out.Most of the guys claiming to have a shop,don't even have one.They take it somewhere to get it all done,maybe assemble it themselves,and that's it.Those are usually the ones pounding their chests,when they shouldn't be.
I've known Bill for a long time,and I have never had any issues with him at all.
Yes,dyno day is usually pickup day.When I went up there to meet Stan Kryla,and take his car for the job,we dynoed it,then loaded it in my truck.It was still warm.
Is he GOD?NO. Am I?No. Are you?No.

380 Racer

First, I never said he wasn't good........just not a god. When I have talked to him, he keeps telling me there are things wrong with RR heads that only he knows about.........really? Or how about he wants to sell me a set of his heads that have no cfm to them. He misled me when he did my lifter bushings. He told me he used a BHJ for that, but he just went off other points. I could have had that done around here.

As far as he makes HP. Of course he does.......with a Super Flo that is not set up to their specs. Saw that video with the customer running the Dyno and about crapped my pants. Talk about unsafe .

At least one guy made 100 more HP but his car never went any faster. You can brag him up all you want but any builder that pays attention can also do.

buzz lightyear

I talked to Bill yesterday about starting a motorbuild in OCT.Gonna run cast iron heads. Bill asked the reason why. I told him my reasons. He fully understood. Did not try to talk me in running alum. heads or even mention alum. heads. I have spent alot of $$$ on gathering certain external parts for the engine. Carb-intake-heads-headers-block-crank-waterpump. One of the problems, that I had to overcome is to find certain parts and get everything to Bill. I'am very lucky and fortunate to find someone (middleman) to help me out. To get everything to Bill for me. I live in CA, Bill is in NY. west coast-east coast. I know the build is going be expensive, BUT there was only one engine builder that I seeked out for this build. Looking forward to this motor build.

I am sorry Stevec for hijacking your thread. My APOLOGY.

chadman

As far as the comment about some other shops that farm out some of the the machine work, it was once put to me by someone like this: "Who would you rather have grinding your crank, me who would be grinding cranks occasionaly as the need arises in my shop or a guy that does nothing but grind cranks 40 hrs. per week?"

The most important aspect of being an engine builder is not how much work you keep in house but knowing what exactly needs to be done and how to check and verify that it is indeed right as well as assembled correctly.

Maybe since he does all of his own machine work is why he thinks you need such gigantic clearances? Just a thought.

507OLDS

I was not projecting my statement towards anyone in particular. Just stating my opinion based on the facts and observations throughout the years.Not just him,but everyone else I have met along the way.If everyone liked one single shop or person,we wouldn't be having this topic.
You get one guy sharing his experience,and immediately some of you think we're comparing pee pees. That's what ROP is for.A bunch of people fighting for placement,which,in reality,is just a small,microscopic spec,compared to all that is out there.
Sure,you could have the fastest,baddest ride,and take fame on "the list",but in the big world,still a nobody.

507OLDS

Chad,
Most shops will farm out their cranks to someone that does it every day. My point was there are a lot of people claiming to have some sort of performance shop or company,when they don't even have a single piece of equipment.Yet,they tout themselves as an engine builder,when they are just an assembler,if that,at best. More like a professional middleman.

chadman

I guess I see the definition of an engine builder a bit differently. In my eyes there are engine builders that keep all or most machine work in house and there are those who don't. I look at it in a similar fashion as a "home builder". Very few don't sub out the foundation, drywall, electrical etc. yet they are still considered the "home builder" because they are in charge of overseeing the work they choose to sub out and are in the end responsible for it and that which they chose to do themselves to the end buyer.

While I don't consider my self to be a professional "engine builder" I do consider myself to have built my own personal engines even though I subbed out much of the machine work that I didn't own the equipment to complete.

I would certainly consider Milan Obradovich an engine builder be it just a hobbyist even though to my knowledge he doesn't own a single machine tool.

My appologies to the O.P. as I'm sure you will be happy with the end product since you seem to be accepting of the price.

507OLDS

Sure,I have assembled my own engines,but I am not an engine shop or engine builder.I do not own any machines.I guess if I advertised engines,then I should be an engine broker.
Yes,a construction contractor works with other companies as a group,each doing their designated job.I've seen the best of that,and I've seen the worst.I consider them a broker or middleman. They coordinate and run a job,but don't get there hands on anything.As for me,if I going to give order or direction,I am going to have my hands in it as well,working. You will get a lot better output from your workers and respect,if you do so.I did just that,at age 19.Took a business that just filed bankruptcy,and within 2 years,tripled it's income,and they are still the best today.Hard work that paid off.Now if I could just get in the Whitehouse........
Sorry Steve. Now I am really straying off topic.

Bernhard

Yes Bill is not God there is only one God JC.
Thanks for you post Nick very informative, Rocket Racing heads have proven to make good power and they look like they make some very nice other parts like there engine plate. They also brought new parts to the market and invested $$$ into the Olds performance market. You are also right about any good engine builder can make a Olds engine perform.

Madmustard

Brian is correct..That 496 in Canada was mine and although not cheap date at all , I was all in --and over budget on funds..Sure I could have had a $3k crank, $1000 girdle, $1000 custom pan, and then a custom cross member,and add $1,000s more to that ..I just had met my max limit on a build...

What i wanted was a 10.99 pass and a motor that lived...Naturally aspirated,no power adders...

Guessing well over 100 some passes later, who knows how many times to the track,maybe 4 to 5 to 6 years in time,and with Bill's help and patience, My carpet laying *** got that Olds flirting with 9:90's,(about a second over my goal et)carrying the wheels a foot and a half outa the hole,and I think 128 mph...

So did the motor exceed my expectations..YES
Did the motor survive?YES-FOR THE ENTIRE TIME I OWNED IT AND A SOME TIME WITH THE NEW OWNER AS WELL..
Did Bill build an engine that fit my goal and my budget:YES

So guys exactly whats the problem???I didnt have a problem with it,Why would you?Its not your coin were talking about.. he built it to what (me) the customer wanted and what (me) the customer could afford...

I have much less respect for a guy who can look at a now blown up piece that knows nothing about how many passes it had,what budget it was built to accomodate, what it ran,(we dont do 1/8th mile passes here,all 1/4) and say "weak block with no girdle" ...than i would to think ...****... that thing lived for 5 years running almost 9's,!!!!The guy looking at a blown up piece had absolutely no idea what budget the prior owner and builder had to work with..!!!!!and we all know thats what it boils down too--COIN..

So to the guy going there for a build..expect a good motor, never heard him say or act like hes a God, and expect good service and advice after the sale..

its a very expensive hobby and i will prob never have a motor built again, 3 kids and just built new house--yeah thats my hobby..lol

Bernhard

When I read Bill's book I was very surprised that he listed most of the Olds engine builders this showed some real class.

As far as bearing clearance goes I would rather have 45psi and the engine not fail than 70 and have it fail.
Yes others have engines that do not fail with better oil psi.
But if the engine lives just fine with lower oil psi what is the problem?

Clearance and psi are only a problem if there is a engine failure or fails before a engine that has tighter clearance and better oil pressure.

olds 307 and 403

I was actually saying how impressive that car was. Take it how you want. Everyone knows the BBO block is less than desirable. Then again, I am building a 403 block.

Madmustard

Yeah as i look back on it it was pretty impressive, ....That car hit the tires hard..I couldnt keep my head from snapping back and cracking the rollbar every time I launched that thing!!

Guess i was trying to explain the lack of support system (no girdle)was due to me not having the $ to do it...not a BTR thing..

307/403---What ever happen to the car and does he still have it?did he use those cp and grp pieces again in another motor??what times is he running??any pics??

507OLDS

Nate,
You trying to rekindle the love?

olds 307 and 403

He still has it, last I heard. He went DX on the new build supposedly 800+ hp. He also bought another car, ran 6.2 in the 1/8 at our track. 81 Cutlass with Batten head DX, was running it while finishing your old car.

507OLDS

He's got my 4-spd in his yellow car. Have you seen that one?

olds 307 and 403

No, haven't seen that one. I only made one test n tune this year, he was not there. I plan on making them all next year. Need to work on my car to make it competitive before May.

Stevec

I went with Bill for a couple of reasons I wanted something fast and I wanted something that would last! I saved for over 2 years side jobs,workin 6 days a week and frankly chest pounder or not who builds more motors? Who's got a better reputation? Mondello? Wise? Who? Not to mention he's only a couple of hours roundtrip. Bills a busy guy when I was there his phone wouldn't stop ringing but he spent about an hour and a half with me. I considered others but my gut said BTR,I hope I'm not disrespecting anyone like I said I'm just going with my gut on this one.

firefrost gold

steve i think you made a great choice Bill is from were ? He has set how many records? He has been doing it for how long? point is myu chest would hurt from the thumping i would be doing Cant wait to see the end results . That going in the yellow car when ready ?

Stevec

Yes it is I have to plum an electric fuel pump and she should be good to go.