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Hello All,
Im wanting to build a 455 for my 69 442. The car is a numbers matching vehicle the G block 400 is standard bore, 3.42 rear end with tubro 400 transmission all original to the car. My plan is to rebuild the 400 and set it aside. I purchased a 1970 455 out of a w34 or so i was told. It was a toro engine that I do know from the intake and exhaust. All that being said I guess it dosnt really matter. I have a 1970 455 block standard bore and thats were Im starting. The block has been cleaned, inspected and checked for cracks. The crank has been turned .010.
Im wanting to build this motor with the stock E heads large valve (although I have picked up an extra set of C heads I could use). Stock intake and exhaust along with the original carb and hit 450 HP. Can this be done?
The shop thats doing the machine work is recommending I drop the compression down due to the 93 octane sold at the pump.
The gentlemen doing the machine work mentioned he ownes a torque plate for oldsmobile so that is a positive.They are currently waiting for me to give them a green light to bore the cylinders. Ive asked them to hold off on the block work as i may have other things i want to do to the block first.
I purchased an Olds performance Manual titled "Engine mod and tuning guide" by Robert Gerometta. version oct 2007 through AHP society.
They recommend installing oil restricters and square up the block. (blueprinting?)
Is this additional block work something I should do eventhough what I'm wanting to achieve is probably not considered very high performance or high HP? Nobody likes to spend money for things that aren't needed. They also talk about cross drilling the crank changing the rear main seal to a FORD 460 seal and then tightening up the clearences on the main bearings? AM I STARTING TO GO OVERBOARD?
I want a stock look under the hood.
Id like to boast about 450 HP with just a much torque.
I want a motor that will last a long time and not have to be tuned before every cruise.
Any help pointing me in the right direction would be Appreciated.
Thanks, Scott
Hello All,
Im wanting to build a 455 for my 69 442. The car is a numbers matching vehicle the G block 400 is standard bore, 3.42 rear end with turbo 400 transmission all original to the car. My plan is to rebuild the 400 and set it aside. I purchased a 1970 455 out of a w34 or so i was told. It was a toro engine that I do know from the intake and exhaust. All that being said I guess it dosnt really matter. I have a 1970 455 block standard bore and thats were Im starting. The block has been cleaned, inspected and checked for cracks. The crank has been turned .010.
Im wanting to build this motor with the stock E heads large valve (although I have picked up an extra set of C heads I could use). Not much difference in the E's or C's apples to apples. Stock intake and exhaust along with the original carb and hit 450 HP. Can this be done? Yes but it you'll need to pay attention to detail.
The shop thats doing the machine work is recommending I drop the compression down due to the 93 octane sold at the pump. Find another shop, The stock compression is really only about 10.0:1. That's fine on 93 if tuned correctly.
The gentlemen doing the machine work mentioned he owns a torque plate for oldsmobile so that is a positive.They are currently waiting for me to give them a green light to bore the cylinders. Ive asked them to hold off on the block work as i may have other things i want to do to the block first.
I purchased an Olds performance Manual titled "Engine mod and tuning guide" by Robert Gerometta. version oct 2007 through AHP society.
They recommend installing oil restricters and square up the block. (blueprinting?) Ditch the oil restrictor idea, they do nothing. Then ask your machinist if he actually square decks blocks or just surfaces them. There's a difference.
Is this additional block work something I should do even though what I'm wanting to achieve is probably not considered very high performance or high HP? Nobody likes to spend money for things that aren't needed. They also talk about cross drilling the crank Nope bad move as well changing the rear main seal to a FORD 460 seal OK and then tightening up the clearences on the main bearings? Going the wrong way. They'll need to be opened up the more power you plan on making. AM I STARTING TO GO OVERBOARD?
I want a stock look under the hood.
Id like to boast about 450 HP with just a much torque. Are you going to dyno it?
I want a motor that will last a long time and not have to be tuned before every cruise.
Any help pointing me in the right direction would be Appreciated.
Thanks, Scott
As mentioned you may want to find another shop. Sorry.
Cutlassefi,
Thanks for your response. I know there are many threads on this sight about 455 builds.I have read lots of them but cant seem to find what im looking for. The machine shop Im using has a very good reputation.I will admit the racing community is probably much smaller than down in the states. But they do seem to have a very good reputation. To answer your question I have pasted a page from there web site apparently the have 2 dynos.
Home to both an in-floor chassis dyno and an engine dyno, can satisfy your desire for “real world” numbers. Our Superflow Autodyn 30 chassis dyno, with an Eddy Current brake allowing us to do load testing, features the latest WinDyn Data Acquisition software and the capability to measure up to 2500HP.
A Stuska TrackMaster LC Engine Dynamometer fits the bill for our out-of-chassis needs, measuring up to 1600HP with load control via a water brake.
As far as the oil restrictors, cross drilling and making sure the crank is sitting in the block square. I read this in the Engine mod and tuning guide" by Robert Gerometta. When I spoke with the machinest about all this he stated they could do the work if thats what i wanted to do. He gave me the term "square deck the block" and told me its part of blueprinting different from deck surfacing he also stated the equipment to do this work is at there 2nd location and he would have to call to make sure they could do Oldsmobile engines as there is not much oldsmobile work in Alaska. Not many oldsmobiles engines running down the track. I was supprised when he mentioned he had set of oldsmobile torque plates before i even knew what they were. He made it sound like he would need to locate them.(indicating they havent been used in a while). I do understand the point you are making about having the right people doing the work. In part thats what Im hoping this thread will help me with. I want to be the one that is informed about my engine build. I dont want to drop my block off and say here it is I want 450 HP call me when its done and hope its what I wanted and then find out I should have done this and that. I have to say the more I read the more it seems Im spining in circles. Ive been on this site for about a year now and have read a lot and learned alot and purchased some missing items for my 442 but when it comes down to building this engine I cant seem to nail it down. Can you help me or point me in the right direction ? I have almost 40 years in the autobody trade I take pride in my work and consider myself a craftsman at my trade. When it comes to engine rebuilding im out of my area of expertise but I know with the right knowledge I can get this done right the first time. Thanks again for any help.
Cutlassefi,
Thanks for your response. I know there are many threads on this sight about 455 builds.I have read lots of them but cant seem to find what im looking for. The machine shop Im using has a very good reputation.I will admit the racing community is probably much smaller than down in the states. But they do seem to have a very good reputation. To answer your question I have pasted a page from there web site apparently the have 2 dynos.
Home to both an in-floor chassis dyno and an engine dyno, can satisfy your desire for “real world” numbers. Our Superflow Autodyn 30 chassis dyno, with an Eddy Current brake allowing us to do load testing, features the latest WinDyn Data Acquisition software and the capability to measure up to 2500HP.
A Stuska TrackMaster LC Engine Dynamometer fits the bill for our out-of-chassis needs, measuring up to 1600HP with load control via a water brake.
As far as the oil restrictors, cross drilling and making sure the crank is sitting in the block square. I read this in the Engine mod and tuning guide" by Robert Gerometta. When I spoke with the machinest about all this he stated they could do the work if thats what i wanted to do. He gave me the term "square deck the block" and told me its part of blueprinting different from deck surfacing he also stated the equipment to do this work is at there 2nd location and he would have to call to make sure they could do Oldsmobile engines as there is not much oldsmobile work in Alaska. Not many oldsmobiles engines running down the track. I was supprised when he mentioned he had set of oldsmobile torque plates before i even knew what they were. He made it sound like he would need to locate them.(indicating they havent been used in a while). I do understand the point you are making about having the right people doing the work. In part thats what Im hoping this thread will help me with. I want to be the one that is informed about my engine build. I dont want to drop my block off and say here it is I want 450 HP call me when its done and hope its what I wanted and then find out I should have done this and that. I have to say the more I read the more it seems Im spining in circles. Ive been on this site for about a year now and have read a lot and learned alot and purchased some missing items for my 442 but when it comes down to building this engine I cant seem to nail it down. Can you help me or point me in the right direction ? I have almost 40 years in the autobody trade I take pride in my work and consider myself a craftsman at my trade. When it comes to engine rebuilding im out of my area of expertise but I know with the right knowledge I can get this done right the first time. Thanks again for any help.
Yes, happy to help.
As you've probably already seen, I've posted a bunch of builds on here over the years. Here's the recipe to follow if you're looking for dependable 450/450.
Align hone mains with either new bolts or studs
Shoot for .003 bearing clearance on mains 1-4, you'll have a little more on #5.
Square deck block to 10.615. if he's truly going to square deck it he should be able to hit that number
Use the Wiseco PTS-537A3 piston This will give you high 9:1 comp with 80cc heads
Eagle H beam rods, .0027-.003 rod bearing clearance
Have them install 2.07/1.68 valves, fill the crossovers and weld the center divider on the exhaust side of the heads. Use W Z or Thornton manifolds. A little bowl work would do wonders as well.
You can do a roller cam and still use the stock valve covers if your budget permits. Either way you'll need a cam in the 230's@.050 range to hit your goal.
From there a proper tune on the Qjet and dist curve and you should make your goal.
The stock type intake and exhaust manifolds are going to kill the power. This same combo will make 500 with an aftermarket intake and headers, I know, I've probably done 20 of them.
Hope this helps. Best of luck.
Mark
Last edited by cutlassefi; August 3rd, 2019 at 04:41 PM.
Yes, happy to help.
As you've probably already seen, I've posted a bunch of builds on here over the years. Here's the recipe to follow if you're looking for dependable 450/450.
Align hone mains with either new bolts or studs
Shoot for .003 bearing clearance on mains 1-4, you'll have a little more on #5.
Square deck block to 10.615. if he's truly going to square deck it he should be able to hit that number
Use the Wiseco PTS-537A3 piston This will give you high 9:1 comp with 80cc heads
Eagle H beam rods, .0027-.003 rod bearing clearance
Have them install 2.07/1.68 valves, fill the crossovers and weld the center divider on the exhaust side of the heads. Use W Z or Thornton manifolds. A little bowl work would do wonders as well.
You can do a roller cam and still use the stock valve covers if your budget permits. Either way you'll need a cam in the 230's@.050 range to hit your goal.
From there a proper tune on the Qjet and dist curve and you should make your goal.
The stock type intake and exhaust manifolds are going to kill the power. This same combo will make 500 with an aftermarket intake and headers, I know, I've probably done 20 of them.
Hope this helps. Best of luck. Mark
X 2 what Mark said. Tightening up the bearing clearances scares me.
Mark, Thanks for taking the time to respone to my questions. I know the motor will produce more torque and power but Im wanting to keep it looking stock i.e. stock valve cover and air cleaner assy. maybe OAI coming from under the bumper. what upgrades can i do to my ignition system without having to modify my aircleaner assembly? The car came stock with front power disk brakes. Its my understanding that was the first year for that. Also Ive already had the transmissiom rebuilt here is whats been done to it. I havent purchased the torque converter yet. what would you recomend with this motor and my 3.42 rear gears
Thanks,
I don't think he will recommend the oil restrictors. If you are referring to "Mondello's" in Pasa Robles, CA, I wouldn't touch anything. Bernard Mondello in CORONA, CA is good.
......Just my two cents worth.
What lift would you recommend on that cam? I'm kind of working on the same idea for my 455 in my '74. Sorry if I seem to be intruding on the subject. I have large valve c heads right now and looking to go with the performer intake.
Mark, Just for claifacation your not recomending i install mondello's oil restrictors. The stock oiling system is fine for my needs?
No restricters other than maybe restricted pushrods.
With stock heads I seldom go much over .500 lift, as the flow pretty much plateaus towards .550 anyway.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by arcticman
Mark, Just for claifacation your not recomending i install mondello's oil restrictors. The stock oiling system is fine for my needs?
You can rotate the cam bearings to restrict flow. The main thing your concerned about here is cam bearing clearance, to much cam bearing clearance bleeds off pressure to the mains. If your going to restrict oil it should be done at the lifters, then theres lifter to bore clearance, thats another story. Its all about controlling the oil leaks. For the record, stock intake flow @ 28 inches SF 600, G heads.
August 3rd, 2019, 01:46 PM
