Carsick

Im going to be pulling the motor out of my 442 to paint the car and engine bay. While its out I figured it would be a good time to swap in a higher performance cam/lifters . The car has a.c and is an Automatic with power brakes so I know that might limit my options. Headers or intake possibly ???

Bernhard

Before you do any performance up grade.
What shape is the engine in!
Miles?
Rebuilt?
Is it mechanically sound?

Carsick

80K original miles on the car but less than 5k since the last rebuild. Runs great , just had the carb rebuilt

cutlassefi

If you want to retain the stock valvetrain then I'd do an Erson Hi Flow AH. What gear is in it?
Headers and a Performer intake are always a good idea but that's your call.


Thanks.

Bernhard

Did you have the engine rebuilt?
Did the engine spin rod bearings?

Carsick

The engine was appears to have been rebuilt at some point by the previous owner. I think im going to stroke it out to a 451 and swap on some 440c heads...decent cam and intake and a bigger carb...full manual valve body with trans brake and a higher stall tq convertor....I did just come acrossa built 455 on craigslist for 5500. Really got me thinkin....

cutlassefi

I'd just do the 455 imo.

Carsick

Heres the craigslist ad to the 1969 455 for 5500. I have a lot more expierence with chevy small blocks. Is this as good of a deal as it sounds?I can post pictures of the motor...Im seeing if he'll take 3k and my yamaha banshee lol...never know

Let me know what you mopar nuts think of this build....



1969 455 Oldsmobile race motor bored 60 over makes it a 467, has about 0 hours on the short block 6 to 8 hours on the heads. Just put a 1000 into refreshing before selling. This engine you can drop in a cutlass or 442 and will lift the front end off the ground if you dont blow the trans or rear end first. If you have a good setup for quarter mile... drop in and go racing..(A COMPLETE TORQUE MONSTER SET UP RIGHT) It is timed at 36 degrees for 91 octane

THIS MOTOR IS 10 TO 1 COMPRESSION ! SO YOU CAN RUN ON STREET BUT YOU NEED AT LEAST A 300O STALL!

BLOCK- Fully studded heads and studded bottom with ARP studs and chromoly main cap straps! , bored 60 over honed for plazma molly ducktale rings, final hone with torque plate, decked, square decked, line honed, clearenced for custom H beam rods, radioused oil journals, oil restrictors, restricted cam bearings installed. oil block off installed in back of block for oil pressure.

CRANK- cast nodular iron, ground 10/10 with extra 3000 for more oil to mains, radius oil journals, cross drilled, micro polished.

HEADS- Ka heads, fully custom ported, stainless steal oversized valves, bronze guides, 3 angle valve job, 3/8s studs and guide plates Crane aluminum roller rockers 1.6

INTAKE- edelbrock torker high rise, 1500-6500, port matched to heads,

PARTS-

Custom chromoly main cap straps
Custom 60 over keith black full floating pistons cryo frozen
Custom eagle H beam rods cryo frozen
" " plazma molly duck tale rings cryo frozen
" " tri metal main and rod bearings, radiused oil holes fully grooved
" " engle cam 28-29 you can look up specs on mondellos site.
" " oil restricted full race hydraulic lifters to match cam
" " oil restricted push rods, cryo frozen and hardened
" " oil restricted cam bearing cryo frozen
" " intake valley pan installed to keep oil from creeping up the sides.
" " full copper head gaskets o-ringed for nos or blower(reusable) installed with copper spray for gaskets
" " 10 quart milodon oil pan
" " pu6 pickup to match pan
" " pu6 hi pressure oil pump for Drag racing
" " Hei distributor with curve kit and hi output coil
" " holley 930 carb double pump 4 corner idling cir, to match specs of engine.....


Comp 3/8 studs
Comp guide plates
Crane aluminum roller rockers, 1.6
Tall chrome valve covers for clearance
true roller timing chain
performance gaskets complete intake etc.

PERFORMANCE SHOPS WOULD CHARGE OVER 12000 FOR THIS MOTOR

Rated at over 500 horses naturally aspirated and runs at over 80 pds of oil pressure all day long!
engine has never been over 180deg, there was no expense spared with this baby. was designed and built to be able to handle 6000 RPMS all day long

Carsick

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Carsick

Bump

Bernhard

$5500 is a lot of money for a cast iron headed 455 big block.
I would shy away from back yard engine builders go to RealOldsPower web site.
There is a forum so you can post your questions.
Take your time and don't rush your build,have a plan/goal with a budget.
Don't get talked into a race engine if your not serious about racing.


What are your goals for the car?
Is it a street car,street strip?
Whats your budget?

Bernhard

You started out with a cam change now you are looking at a new engine.


If you put a cam in your 400 I also would check what your rod and main clearances are.
If you are tight you can spin rod bearings and main bearings.
You can have the crank ground for more clearance to avoid spinning bearings.

Bernhard

The engine that you posted pics of has a drag racing pan for a car with a modified cross member or a boat it will not fit you car.
Before you deal with a shop/retailer do a search and look up there history.
There is a shop in California that sells Olds parts that one should question before buying from.
Good Luck and have fun with your build and car.

chadman

SHHHHHHH! My engine might hear you. It doesn't know it's supposed to have already spun it's bearings.

Bernhard

LOL

Then we won't tell it.

We spun rod bearings in our 69 442 x2
The 69 442 that I now own was being raced by the original owner when he spun a rod bearing at the track. I was at the track when he spun the bearing he was shifting at 5000 rpm
This past year I pulled down a 400 core engine found it had multiple spun rod bearings.


Chad what rods are you running and clearance?
I would never say that you can't run tight because you and Smitty's customers do.
I know you are running well with tighter clearance so it can be done but I will not go there with my bad experience with factory rods and clearance.


Carsick
Can try to run factory clearance I just have never had any luck doing so.

chadman

Eagle rods at .0022-.0023

Carsick

I think ive talked myself out of forking out the 5500 for the 455. I like it alot because it was a 69 block and was pretty much ready to drop in. Now my focus is back on the Og 400/th400 set up. Id like input on a decent cam/intake/lifter upgrade. I want to retain the same heads. Im pulling the motor out so I can start media blasting the engine bay and rest of the car. Id like to rebuild the bottom end with new rings and bearings. The motor sounded great before i parked it in the garage. I have since had the carb rebuilt.

Im also thinking of going with a manual valve body with a shift kit. The tranny is leaks fluid like crazy and its comin out anyway so why not hotrod it out a bit? If im stuck driving an AUTOMATIC 442 it might as well have a full manual valve body (im also thinking trans brake but idk yet).

Thanks

Bernhard

Forget the trans brake

If you want to improve the performance of the 400

You can do a cam swap but I would also go with new springs or make sure the old ones are up to the task.
Quality Headers and 3'' mandrel bent exhaust system.
When you pull the engine apart you will have a better idea of the condition,and you can plan your up grades from that point.

Backstrom

" " plazma molly duck tale rings cryo frozen
Hm.. I know there's a family of mouse and rat motors, & I have for about 40 yrs had a thought of Donald Duck and his car, beeing almost certain it was powered by one of those, but I never knew that Walt Disney made piston rings for Oldsmobiles...
But what do we know up here in northern europe, any good, are they??
As im going to FL in march, do you know if they sell stroker cranks as well??

sorry, not contributing to anything, but I had to ask.

Backstrom

Bernhard, I hope Smitty doesn't mind i'm sharing this, but if you take a look at his facebook update from aug 16, I think you can find some useful info on bearing clearances.
www.facebook.com/MJPROFORMANCE

Bernhard

I have read this post before.
The factory rod has a lot to do with the bearings spinning in the big block Olds.
They stretch and go out of round at higher rpm and power levels. You end up with no bearing clearance,metal to metal contact.

Smitty has success building his engines tight, you have to ask him if he still builds with stock rods?

There are quite a few Olds fans using the bearing manufacture spec of .001 per inch of journal + .0005 for hp application.
so 2.5 rod would be .0025 + .0005 = .003 rod clearance


Chads engine runs .0022 to .0023

So .0008 to .0007 more is excessive and cause X,Y,Z ????????????


I believe Smitty is a tool and die maker that tends to make him better than the average machinist. I have nothing against Smitty and his builds or his customers.He is always posting and sharing his knowledge.

Because I have spun bearings in the past with stock rods and factory clearances I will take my chances with the extra .0007

Stevec

Carsick, I had a 9 to 1 compression 400,g block. I had Mark CutlassEFI get me one of his roller cams and ran it with big valve c heads,performer intake ,750 Edelbrock carb with a TCI breakaway torque converter and that thing went pretty dam good!

I ended up spinning a rod bearing because I was shifting it at about 5500rpm,couldn't help myself it was just to much fun!

I've since swapped out the 400 for a 455 mostly because I didn't want to destroy the # matching 400 g block.

I bet a 400 g block with 10 to 1 Pistons,some worked on iron heads a cam from Mark,CutlassEFI a good carb and some eagle rods would make a nice street engine!

Bernhard

That's funny that's exactly the rpm we spun rod bearings at with our 400G we were having way to much fun to stop as well.

Stevec

Bernhard,I had 3:55 gears in that car and it was a lot of fun. Just couldn't keep my right foot out of it!��

cutlassefi

This is why I don't use stock rods. Since the introduction of the Eagles it makes even less sense.

chadman

I agree on the rods. I think any performance build should include at least an aftermarket H-beam rod. The stock rods are junk, plain and simple.

Backstrom

No intention to hijack this thread, but has anyone checked out the rods on the Pro Comp/Speedmaster website?
They look very much like the Eagles, and at the same specs but much less pricey.
Considering price plus freight + 10% import tax and 25% sales tax above that i can tell you that every cent on the purchase makes difference here in the land of the worlds highest taxes. The question is are they reliable? Chinesium?

Carsick

Any recomendations on a carb upgrade with electric choke? I was thinking a 750cfm speed demon but Im not sure if I'll be able to attatch my kickdown (T.V cable) for the TH400. Plans have changed and Im going to drive the car as is for a couple months until my new project is done. I had my quadrajet rebuilt but Im get a really high idle.. I know setting up the divorced choke can be a bit of a trick. Right now Im thinking of boxing up the quadrajet and getting something with an electric choke and maybe a bit more flow. Im not sure how long this 442 had been sitting before Ibought it. The engine diesels (runs on) after I cut the ignition ...unless i turn the car off in gear. Im assuming this is from carbon build up staying hot and causing unwanted ignition??? I just picked up a 65 New Yorker with a 440 ...I was very tempted to swap the motors but I think id sell the 65 after I paint it in order to afford a stroker kit for the G block 400ci...Im thinking of going with a 471 or a 451 stroker kit.

So my question is what carburetor should I buy? I want electric choke and a place to hook up my kickdown. Im thinking 750cfm is a good size but im always open for input....

*off topic but while im here...any tips for removing the trim on the 65 new yorker (two door)? Its has moldings from the headlights to the taillights. I really dont want to break any clips so finding a good method or tool is probably my best bet. I just got my Polomino Gold(#63) paint in (more silver than gold) for the 442 I think im going to use it on the New yorker.

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cutlassefi

I'd do an SS-830 Quick Fuel. Electric choke, extremely tunable and well made.

Bernhard

On something so important as rods I would stick with a proven product.

Carsick

Thanks Cutlassefi, I played with the carb/divorced choke a bit more today. Im not really sure if set the 1/8" spacing for the choke butterfly right...i used a small drill bit and bent the lever attached to the butterfly so that it wouldn't open to far causing the fast idle. Its sounding a lot more like it should but I need to figure out how to adjust my fast idle and idle mix screws....What's a good starting point (i.e 2.5 turns out ?) Do you think seafoam would clean things up enough to get rid of the carbon build up causing the engine to deisel sometimes (run on)...

I really like the Quick Fuel 830. Is that too much carb for a pretty much stock 400? It comes in two finishes...i cant decided lol
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Bernhard

This could be as simple as a timing issue.
Have you given it a major tune up?
Have you checked the timing?
Plugs,wires, cap, rotor,distributor are the advance weights free as not frozen?

Before jumping to a new carb make sure that is the problem.
I would go through everything before I would spend any money on a new carb.
I would start with a comp test and leak down, and read the plugs.
I would also look for blow by.
You need to establish a base line.

Carsick

Well honestly Im not a big fan of the divorced choke set up. Im thinking ill swap on edelbrock intake with a carb with electric choke. Ill of course keep all the oem equip. My goal is to get the car driveable and once Im done flipping the 65 New Yorker Ill pull the 442 in the garage and start a complete tare down/rebuild by which point I'm hoping I have the budget to stroke the motor out to a 451 or so. I haven't driven the 442 more than a quarter mile. I bought it at an estate sale, took a spin around a near by parking lot before loading it on the flat bed. The motor sounds pretty good but I think its been sitting. It looks like an older low mile rebuild to me using all the original parts. I want this car to run low 12's to mid 11's when its done....

Carsick

I took these after I pulled the carb to have it rebuilt...The motor will be the correct bronze color in the future...Any idea what the three fingered vacuum fitting is used for? I believe its called a thermo vac switch or something like that
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Bernhard

Have you checked the block code to see if it is a 400 G
It also could have old gas in it if it has not been run for a long time.
I would start with the basics.

Carsick

Yea its the correct G block...Im gonna run some seafoam through the tank and the intake. During the restoration i'll drop and clean the tank out...and hopefully find a build sheet lol

Backstrom

The vacuum switch bypasses ported vacuum from the carb and supplying manifold vacuum to the distributor when the engine runs at high temp, increases btdc timing and makes the engine run a little cooler.
Unless caring for originality, you don't need it IMO.

oldsmobiledave

Your valve covers are on backwards.

Carsick

Right now the distributer vacuum adv. is hooked up to my carb. Should I move it or does it matter?

I just got the motor running after doing a tune up. It runs great but diesels (run on) after I turn it off...shutting it off in drive helps but still diesels a little. I've got the timing pretty close (by ear) . My idle is good. I'm assuming it's built up carbon deposits on the pistons or ????

I ran half a bottle of seafoam....I plan on doing a rebuild within 6 months when I paint the car. My idea is to make it my occasional daily until then. I've done plugs, wires had the carb rebuilt and replaced the starter.

Lmao I can't believe the valve covers are backwards lol

cjsdad

If your engine is dieseling or running-on after the ingnition is turned off you should check the timing chain for slack/wear. I had a F**d with a 400 cid engine that would continue to run for minutes if I let it. The timing chain and synthetic cam gear were so loose I could almost touch the chain together between the sprockets. Changed the timing set and it solved the issue. Easy to check timing chain slack by pulling the fuel pump. If the chain is slack, best to change it out.