65 cutlass with a 67 toro engine?
June 19th, 2013, 12:53 PM
#2
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Unbolt the 330, swap the 330 motor mounts to the 425, drop the 425 into the car. This is extremely easy. You'll need the A-body BBO exhaust manifolds. The W/Z manifolds are preferred if you can get them - or headers, of course. You'll want to swap the starter nose from your 330 starter onto the 425's high torque starter and use that one. You'll need to swap the oil filter adapter from the 330 to the 425 also. You can keep the Toro oil pan - it fits the A-body chassis just fine.
June 19th, 2013, 12:57 PM
#3
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Unbolt the 330, swap the 330 motor mounts to the 425, drop the 425 into the car. This is extremely easy. You'll need the A-body BBO exhaust manifolds. The W/Z manifolds are preferred if you can get them - or headers, of course. You'll want to swap the starter nose from your 330 starter onto the 425's high torque starter and use that one. You'll need to swap the oil filter adapter from the 330 to the 425 also. You can keep the Toro oil pan - it fits the A-body chassis just fine.
This is exactly the info i was looking for. What about mounting it to the existing 2spd or swapping in a TH400.....more tips?
Cheers,
Gary
June 19th, 2013, 01:12 PM
#4
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Your call, it works either way. The Junkaway was factory installed behind the 400 in the 65-66 442s. Of course, you'll prefer the 2.48 first gear in the TH400. Swapping the trans requires a different driveshaft and changing the front and intermediate e-brake cables because of the different trans crossmember location. And of course there's the shifter quadrant issue. If you have a console, you can get a kit to convert the stock shifter to a three speed shifter from Shiftworks.
June 24th, 2013, 11:37 AM
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Your call, it works either way. The Junkaway was factory installed behind the 400 in the 65-66 442s. Of course, you'll prefer the 2.48 first gear in the TH400. Swapping the trans requires a different driveshaft and changing the front and intermediate e-brake cables because of the different trans crossmember location. And of course there's the shifter quadrant issue. If you have a console, you can get a kit to convert the stock shifter to a three speed shifter from Shiftworks.
I've brought the toro engine home (pic attached). Still has the mount below the timing cover and proper oil pan & exhaust etc. seems to be stock from this 67 toro.
I'm also picking up a short tail BOP st-400 from a 67 buick (pitch switch) not sure how i will hook up shifter but might try to do it with the stock column shifter initially.
Thank for the help and i might need more after i clean and paint the 425 and go to install it.
I've searched through this site to find others that might have put a 425 in a 65 cutlass but so far nothing.
Gary
June 25th, 2013, 02:59 PM
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W/Z manifolds?
Unbolt the 330, swap the 330 motor mounts to the 425, drop the 425 into the car. This is extremely easy. You'll need the A-body BBO exhaust manifolds. The W/Z manifolds are preferred if you can get them - or headers, of course. You'll want to swap the starter nose from your 330 starter onto the 425's high torque starter and use that one. You'll need to swap the oil filter adapter from the 330 to the 425 also. You can keep the Toro oil pan - it fits the A-body chassis just fine.
June 25th, 2013, 05:05 PM
#7
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June 27th, 2013, 06:32 PM
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Couple of notes:
That is the best Olds motor made, cherish it....
the 0.921" diamter lifters are expensive and even used ones are not junk.
The AC/Alt brackets are for 66-67 Toro ONLY so do not toss them. You can use the 330's brackets and pulleys on the 425, just use the same length water pump that the 330 had before, and proper length belts. Use the 330's PS pump and pulley too.
The Toro intake is very good. Unless you are going to AL, do not mess with it.
You may wish to fit the car with big block [442] front springs and stabilizer bar.
That is the best Olds motor made, cherish it....
the 0.921" diamter lifters are expensive and even used ones are not junk.
The AC/Alt brackets are for 66-67 Toro ONLY so do not toss them. You can use the 330's brackets and pulleys on the 425, just use the same length water pump that the 330 had before, and proper length belts. Use the 330's PS pump and pulley too.
The Toro intake is very good. Unless you are going to AL, do not mess with it.
You may wish to fit the car with big block [442] front springs and stabilizer bar.
July 2nd, 2013, 01:12 PM
#11
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Couple of notes:
That is the best Olds motor made, cherish it....
the 0.921" diamter lifters are expensive and even used ones are not junk.
The AC/Alt brackets are for 66-67 Toro ONLY so do not toss them. You can use the 330's brackets and pulleys on the 425, just use the same length water pump that the 330 had before, and proper length belts. Use the 330's PS pump and pulley too.
The Toro intake is very good. Unless you are going to AL, do not mess with it.
You may wish to fit the car with big block [442] front springs and stabilizer bar.
That is the best Olds motor made, cherish it....
the 0.921" diamter lifters are expensive and even used ones are not junk.
The AC/Alt brackets are for 66-67 Toro ONLY so do not toss them. You can use the 330's brackets and pulleys on the 425, just use the same length water pump that the 330 had before, and proper length belts. Use the 330's PS pump and pulley too.
The Toro intake is very good. Unless you are going to AL, do not mess with it.
You may wish to fit the car with big block [442] front springs and stabilizer bar.
Gary
July 2nd, 2013, 01:15 PM
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And there's the problem Gene, the car does sag a bit. Probably some to do with body mounts and some to do with spring sag. Last time i felt sad about the height of a car was my 67 ss396 chevelle (sold, sadface) when i finally took it to an old guy spring shop and said lets jack it up and i'll show you where i want it to sit....they did a beautiful job.
Cheers,
Gary
July 4th, 2013, 10:53 AM
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Rear diff?
Hi all,
Thanks to all that have helped me make decisions and acquire parts. Before I begin to put this together i was wondering about the rear end.
65 cutlass (seized 330cid)
425 cid from 67 toro
ST-400 from a 67 buick (short tail)
W/Z manifolds from a 69 cutlass.
Should i use the stock rear or swap in something more beefy?
I'm just building for street!
Gary
Thanks to all that have helped me make decisions and acquire parts. Before I begin to put this together i was wondering about the rear end.
65 cutlass (seized 330cid)
425 cid from 67 toro
ST-400 from a 67 buick (short tail)
W/Z manifolds from a 69 cutlass.
Should i use the stock rear or swap in something more beefy?
I'm just building for street!
Gary
July 6th, 2013, 12:17 AM
#15
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Finishing the swap of a 67 Toro 425 into a 64 Cutlass . A couple of pics attached. I am using a Turbo 350 and it bolted right in with the stock drive shaft. Not sure of the length of the 400. I swapped in a 3.55 rear end out of a 67 442. Also used an aftermarket aluminum radiator from Summit. W/Z manifolds fit easily. I suggest that if you plan to upgrade the front brakes that you do so before putting the engine - not a lot of room once the engine is installed. Also, as Joe said, make sure- if you get new motor mounts - to get the 330 mounts. The later 455 mounts are different and will not work- learned this the hard way. Had to add a carb spacer so the stock air cleaner would clear the HEI.
July 6th, 2013, 09:53 AM
#17
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Good start
Your water pump inlet is on the LH side, indicating a 1964 330 pump.
I thought your car was a '65 Cutlass... so sayeth the title.
As long as you can connect the radiator bottom nipple to the WP inlet nipple, the coolant flow will work. However, the '64 330 WP inlet on the LH side means that the timing marks were on the RH [edit- was "LH"] side for the 1964 only 330 only. If you wish to use the stock 66-67 Toro balancer and its timing mark, then your timing tab will need to be on the LH side like all the other 1965+ Olds V8's.
I am not that familiar with the 1965 Cutlass radiator configuration, but it seems you may wish to procure a water pump of the same length as the one you have, so the pulley alignment is not disturbed, but the inlet is on the RH side. Then use the Toro timing tab and Toro 425 balancer.
The '65 442 and probably the Toro should have the correct type water pump.
Closer inspection while paying some attention shows me that you have corrected this by the time the engine was fully installed. Never mind! Good info for others who come here looking for tips though.
Your water pump inlet is on the LH side, indicating a 1964 330 pump.
I thought your car was a '65 Cutlass... so sayeth the title.
As long as you can connect the radiator bottom nipple to the WP inlet nipple, the coolant flow will work. However, the '64 330 WP inlet on the LH side means that the timing marks were on the RH [edit- was "LH"] side for the 1964 only 330 only. If you wish to use the stock 66-67 Toro balancer and its timing mark, then your timing tab will need to be on the LH side like all the other 1965+ Olds V8's.
I am not that familiar with the 1965 Cutlass radiator configuration, but it seems you may wish to procure a water pump of the same length as the one you have, so the pulley alignment is not disturbed, but the inlet is on the RH side. Then use the Toro timing tab and Toro 425 balancer.
The '65 442 and probably the Toro should have the correct type water pump.
Closer inspection while paying some attention shows me that you have corrected this by the time the engine was fully installed. Never mind! Good info for others who come here looking for tips though.
Last edited by Octania; September 3rd, 2013 at 09:32 AM.
July 7th, 2013, 10:36 PM
#18
Octania, I think you meant the timing mark as being on the passenger (RT) side if you use the 330 water pump. Of which you are correct about using the '65 and later water pump, it should be the same length of the 330 water pump. That way the 330/425 pulleys will line up.
ThreeJ, if your good with the set up you have, then the timing mark will be on the passenger (RT) side.
I'm guessing you bought a radiator that has the in and out in the positions you can use.
Other wise the install looks very clean. If you can fab or find a shroud to fit would be a great idea. The other route would be to use an electric fan and shroud.
Gene
Octania, I just read the thread again and "ThreeJ" has the '64 Cutlass and Toro engine.
It is "65Cutlass" has the '65 Cutlass with the Toro engine. he has not answered yet.
ThreeJ, if your good with the set up you have, then the timing mark will be on the passenger (RT) side.
I'm guessing you bought a radiator that has the in and out in the positions you can use.
Other wise the install looks very clean. If you can fab or find a shroud to fit would be a great idea. The other route would be to use an electric fan and shroud.
Gene
Octania, I just read the thread again and "ThreeJ" has the '64 Cutlass and Toro engine.
It is "65Cutlass" has the '65 Cutlass with the Toro engine. he has not answered yet.
Good start
Your water pump inlet is on the LH side, indicating a 1964 330 pump.
I thought your car was a '65 Cutlass... so sayeth the title.
As long as you can connect the radiator bottom nipple to the WP inlet nipple, the coolant flow will work. However, the '64 330 WP inlet on the LH side means that the timing marks were on the LH side for the 1964 only 330 only. If you wish to use the stock 66-67 Toro balancer and its timing mark, then your timing tab will need to be on the LH side like all the other 1965+ Olds V8's.
I am not that familiar with the 1965 Cutlass radiator configuration, but it seems you may wish to procure a water pump of the same length as the one you have, so the pulley alignment is not disturbed, but the inlet is on the RH side. Then use the Toro timing tab and Toro 425 balancer.
The '65 442 and probably the Toro should have the correct type water pump.
Closer inspection while paying some attention shows me that you have corrected this by the time the engine was fully installed. Never mind! Good info for others who come here looking for tips though.
Your water pump inlet is on the LH side, indicating a 1964 330 pump.
I thought your car was a '65 Cutlass... so sayeth the title.
As long as you can connect the radiator bottom nipple to the WP inlet nipple, the coolant flow will work. However, the '64 330 WP inlet on the LH side means that the timing marks were on the LH side for the 1964 only 330 only. If you wish to use the stock 66-67 Toro balancer and its timing mark, then your timing tab will need to be on the LH side like all the other 1965+ Olds V8's.
I am not that familiar with the 1965 Cutlass radiator configuration, but it seems you may wish to procure a water pump of the same length as the one you have, so the pulley alignment is not disturbed, but the inlet is on the RH side. Then use the Toro timing tab and Toro 425 balancer.
The '65 442 and probably the Toro should have the correct type water pump.
Closer inspection while paying some attention shows me that you have corrected this by the time the engine was fully installed. Never mind! Good info for others who come here looking for tips though.
August 8th, 2013, 01:26 PM
#19
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Unbolt the 330, swap the 330 motor mounts to the 425, drop the 425 into the car. This is extremely easy. You'll need the A-body BBO exhaust manifolds. The W/Z manifolds are preferred if you can get them - or headers, of course. You'll want to swap the starter nose from your 330 starter onto the 425's high torque starter and use that one. You'll need to swap the oil filter adapter from the 330 to the 425 also. You can keep the Toro oil pan - it fits the A-body chassis just fine.
Hi Joe,
Just wondering if i need to remove the front mount from the toro engine or will it clear the crossmember on the cutlass?
Gary
August 12th, 2013, 08:05 AM
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August 12th, 2013, 09:50 AM
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https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...r-project.html
August 21st, 2013, 11:45 AM
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here you go, had to dig way back for it. must mean its time to get back at it.winter is long over
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...r-project.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...r-project.html
I've started an album...."1965 Cutlass F85 post - w425/toro"
Gary
Last edited by 65cutlassnorth; August 21st, 2013 at 11:48 AM.
August 21st, 2013, 11:46 AM
#27
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toro decal
I do have the decal still on the breather....it's blue. I was going to keep it on there but if i change my mind i will let you know.
Gary
August 21st, 2013, 12:09 PM
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toro decal
Here are some pics....
Gary
Last edited by 65cutlassnorth; August 21st, 2013 at 12:22 PM. Reason: adding pics
August 21st, 2013, 07:31 PM
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65 442 radiator?
I'm trying to figure out what rad I need.
I want the original style look but for a big block so I have a question.
Q: is the rad cradle any different on a 330cid 65 olds as the 65 442?
Thank you in advance for any help.
Gary
I want the original style look but for a big block so I have a question.
Q: is the rad cradle any different on a 330cid 65 olds as the 65 442?
Thank you in advance for any help.
Gary
September 3rd, 2013, 05:40 AM
#32
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Hi Gary,
Great looking project! I'm wondering what you did with the exhaust manifolds for the Toronado, I'm needing some and live in the Niagara area. PM Sent.
Mark
Great looking project! I'm wondering what you did with the exhaust manifolds for the Toronado, I'm needing some and live in the Niagara area. PM Sent.
Mark
Last edited by ydennekkram; September 3rd, 2013 at 05:50 AM.
September 3rd, 2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally i was going to post them for sale. But...since you are a member on here and others have helped me with great info........you can have them.
You mentioned in your PM that one of yours was cracked can you tell me which one? If i remember correctly i may have cracked one ear slightly as i was a bit aggressive getting them off....i'm not 100% on that because i am getting older. I can check when i'm back out to my shop on Wednesday this week.
Cheers,
Gary
September 3rd, 2013, 07:44 PM
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Hi Mark,
Originally i was going to post them for sale. But...since you are a member on here and others have helped me with great info........you can have them.
You mentioned in your PM that one of yours was cracked can you tell me which one? If i remember correctly i may have cracked one ear slightly as i was a bit aggressive getting them off....i'm not 100% on that because i am getting older. I can check when i'm back out to my shop on Wednesday this week.
Cheers,
Gary
Originally i was going to post them for sale. But...since you are a member on here and others have helped me with great info........you can have them.
You mentioned in your PM that one of yours was cracked can you tell me which one? If i remember correctly i may have cracked one ear slightly as i was a bit aggressive getting them off....i'm not 100% on that because i am getting older. I can check when i'm back out to my shop on Wednesday this week.
Cheers,
Gary
Mark
September 4th, 2013, 06:37 AM
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September 4th, 2013, 05:17 PM
#36
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Good news.....my mind played a trick on me.
The manifold I cracked was the one on the 330cid originally from the car. I needed to get the oil filter adapter from it.
So the manifold you want is here and all good. Pick it up whenever you like.
Gary
September 4th, 2013, 07:56 PM
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Mark
September 5th, 2013, 08:24 PM
#38
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65cutlass north,
i hate to say it, but you're going to have traction issues. ernie('67 cutlass with non-toro 425) certainly does. his butt is just too light, and since a '65 is smaller, iirc, you may want to think about some ballast in the keester of your car. other than that, it's a blast!
plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension, and steering, it's really required to have anything more than something that goes fast, straight only.
bill
i hate to say it, but you're going to have traction issues. ernie('67 cutlass with non-toro 425) certainly does. his butt is just too light, and since a '65 is smaller, iirc, you may want to think about some ballast in the keester of your car. other than that, it's a blast!
plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension, and steering, it's really required to have anything more than something that goes fast, straight only.
bill
Last edited by BILL DEMMER; September 5th, 2013 at 08:28 PM.
September 6th, 2013, 04:43 AM
#39
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65cutlass north,
i hate to say it, but you're going to have traction issues. ernie('67 cutlass with non-toro 425) certainly does. his butt is just too light, and since a '65 is smaller, iirc, you may want to think about some ballast in the keester of your car. other than that, it's a blast!
plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension, and steering, it's really required to have anything more than something that goes fast, straight only.
bill
i hate to say it, but you're going to have traction issues. ernie('67 cutlass with non-toro 425) certainly does. his butt is just too light, and since a '65 is smaller, iirc, you may want to think about some ballast in the keester of your car. other than that, it's a blast!
plan on upgrading the brakes, suspension, and steering, it's really required to have anything more than something that goes fast, straight only.
bill
Gary
September 6th, 2013, 06:32 AM
#40
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Drag cars use ballast because most classes have a minimum weight requirement. You build the car lighter than that then add the weight back where it does the most good. Street cars don't have a minimum weight requirement, so making the car lighter is the same as adding HP.
