MDchanic

Jeez, Eightballz, that Toronado is running like crap.

I would start with the basics to fix this. It's going to be something simple and obvious.

First, confirm that the TDC ("OT" for you guys) mark on your vibration damper is in the right place, or at least close. You can get within a few degrees by inserting a pencil into the spark plug hole and turning the crank back and forth with a big wrench - the highest point of the pencil is TDC, and should line up with the mark on the damper (or be very close).
While you are doing this, confirm that there is essentially no slop in the timing chain - there should be almost no lag between turning the crank and having the distributor rotor turn. If you've got slop, the timing chain might have jumped.

Next, confirm your dwell angle. Connect a dwell meter and crank the engine while watching it. It should read 30°. If not, adjust the points until it does.

Next, confirm timing - it should be close to spec. If it's far out, it will run like this.
You can get a basic timing reading while cranking, and, since the spec is at 1100 RPM, you should set it slightly retarded at cranking speed. You can get it just right later.

It sounds like you've got a good strong spark, but if you haven't checked, you should.
You know what one looks like, judging by the other cars in your shop.

If it doesn't start and run after these steps, you might try a compression test, just to know in your heart that you've excluded that problem.

Next, I would see if it will run with no fuel.
No fuel??? Yes. I would empty the carburetor and block, disconnect, or pinch off a fuel line, then see how it runs of tiny puffs of ether or propane.
If it seems to run smoothly on those, then reconnect the fuel and see what it does.
If it runs badly but smooths out with a puff of ether, your carb isn't delivering enough fuel.
If a puff of ether doesn't help, your carb is delivering too much fuel.

Personally, I am suspicious of the carburetor, as you said it had been professionally rebuilt, but you found the float hanger through the hole in the float arm, which is the sort of mistake a professional would NEVER make. There could be other aspects of the rebuild, including flipped or incorrect gaskets blocking passages, that were also screwed up.

- Eric

EightballZ

ok guys...i've checked the TDC of the first cylinder...the mark on the damper was around 6° before....so since the shop manual says 5°-7° i guess its ok.

then i checked the spark again which was strong enough

tried to run the car without fuel and a shot of ether after i disconnected the fuel line from the pump....i saw that it was dry...gas tank was empty...so i got some fresh gas. the car ran with that ether-shots.

after that, i checked the dwell angle again i adjusted the points.

then the car had a nice and smooth idle ...and i could rev the engine a bit without stalling....engine was cold....distributor vaccuum disconnected and plugged.

i let the eninge warm up till operating temp. ...but then the car began to stall and it died after...dont know..about 3-4mins...at operating temperature the car reacts like in the videos below...sloppy idle and bad response to gas pedal movement. (http://youtu.be/dfZohMWj2m4) ...what you cant hear on the video, is that short "knock sound" before the engine starts...

at least i fixed the flooding issue so the carb is dry outside and there are no more seas of fuel inside the intake manifold...so i guess that leaking drain plugs are not causing the problem...

next thing i wanna do, is to get myself a dwell meter, rpm meter and a timing gun...next try in 5 days

MDchanic

Wait. Do you mean that with the #1 cylinder at TDC, the pointer on the damper was at 6°?
If you do (and you were reasonably accurate when you checked), then the balancer has turned on its rubber part, and the timing mark is misaligned, which might lead to the problems you're having.

Good.

Good.

Good.

.
The knock sound I heard on the video sounded like the starter motor stalling, perhaps because of a brush problem, perhaps for some other reason.

Did you check the spark after the engine had warmed up and was running badly, or only when it was cold.
A heat intermittent in the coil or the condenser might do this as well.

You MUST have a timing light to set the timing correctly.
My bet right now is on the timing being way off, either because the damper has slipped, or because it has not been timed with a timing light.

Don't worry, you'll get it!

- Eric

ELY442

Dude, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? Check the fuel pump. It seems you car dies and doesnt get enough fuel pressure into the carb. Or get an electric fuel pump and bypass the mechanical.

MDchanic

Ely, before he fixed the float, it was pouring gas into the intake.

No fuel pump problems here.

- Eric

EightballZ

is it possible that it wasnt on the compression stroke? it should've read 0° if it was, right?

yeah thats right..need to fix the magnetic switch someday..but the sound i mean is like that typical engine knock-sound..i remember an episode of „Married...with Children“ were that guy tried to shut off his dodge..but it was dieseling and knocking around while he went inside the house...

will check that next weekend

is it possible to get a smooth timing with a slipped damper? i think its hard to replace since there's not much room left between the pulley and the radiator / fan shroud

i really appreciate your help...thank you guys

MDchanic

It would be reasonable to use a more precise technique (such as a bolt through a spark plug base, which can be adjusted down until the piston just hits it, the damper marked at that point, then the engine rotated in the opposite direction until it touches the bolt, the damper marked again, and TDC located perfectly between the two marks you made) to confirm whether the TDC mark has moved.
If the mark has moved, it will not affect your ability to set the timing, but it will affect your ability to set the timing according to the specifications in the manual (and the damper might be ready to come apart ).


Could be that it's too far advanced, which can give you that symptom, but will then run well at higher RPMs.



Good.


It is possible, but you have to ignore the markings,and time it by sound.
If the damper needs replacement, it is easier with the radiator removed.
Tony72Cutlass'S' has a thread where he just changed his.
We don't know whether the damper is bad yet, though.


Thank us when your car runs .

- Eric

EightballZ

i think i forgot to mention, that the dist. was connected to manifold vacuum before i changed to the new carb....so it may be timed for manifold vacuum instead of the ported vac i'm gonna use now.

apart from this, the vac. advance was disconnected for adjusting the idle

gonna keep you guys posted...just need to buy a timing light etc. first.

EightballZ

so thats the result of the last days...could borrow a really cool timing light which was adjustable and it was able to show dwell angle and RPM too.

i set the dwell angle again and the timing referring to the shop manual...after that i adjusted the fast and slow idle ...and mixture screws.

last problem i have is shown in the last video...if you rev the engine slowly the engine stalls a bit and the RPM drops...i get the feeling that the acc. pump isnt working properly....but it has nice strong shots of fuel when pushing the rod of the pump. thats only at part throttle i guess...when you rev it with full throttle its not that bad.

you can read it from the vac gauge when vac drops to zero the engine stalls.

vac advance is connected to ported vac

any ideas?

P.S.: sounds menacing when secondaries open up

http://youtu.be/n5NatFAY16o

http://youtu.be/QoxMhmgjgNs

http://youtu.be/WIMOjvdbBqc

EightballZ

It seems that the engine has lack of fuel when throttle plates passes the off idle holes.. do you guys think that this can be caused by a low float Level? Or maybe mixture screw adjustment effects off idle operation?

how i set mixture screws:

- turn screw in till seated and turn it out 6 full turns
- raise idle RPM to 675
- turn both screws simultaneously in, till you hit 600 RPM (which is the slow idle RPM specification)

vac gauge reads around 12"/Hg ..shop manual says 10-13" at start

acc pump shots fuel when i rev the engine

so..what can cause that off-idle stumble?

EightballZ

it was the acc pump...had a little delay between moving the throttle arm and spraying fuel...fixed that with a stronger acc pump spring.

Orlando Perez

i had the same problem on my 455 and i always tought it was the carb just jump the distributor couple of teeth shoul fire rite up..

oldcutlass

What is your dwell and timing set to now with vacuum advance disconnected and plugged? When you adjust the carb, look at the vacuum gauge and turn the A/F adjustment screws in slowly 1 at a time until the engine vacuum drops dramatically, then turn out 1/8 turn at a time and attain your highest vacuum. The 2 screws should be pretty even as far as amount of turns out.

EightballZ

Thanks...but shes running already...