1971 442 convert

I am not a big engine guy and just wondered if I could get some advice and guidance on my rebuild that I am considering. I have a real oil burning issue and have replaced the valve seals and checked the oil returns and compression etc. .
I am in Canada so I know the costs will be higher than the US. I have included a quote with costs and some detail (which I am sure is not enough detail), and would like some input from the wise people that you are. What Cam, options, things to watch out for etc.

Thanks
PS JOE are you back from Holidays yet??

" Complete remanufactured engine, including all internal parts, rotating assembly balanced, and complete machine work.
Cleaning, painting & assembly, including mild performance cam and a new water pump.
$2800.00

Options
-points to electronic conversion kit $180.00
-roller camshaft and lifters $1100.00
-roller rocker arms (includes rocker studs & guide plates) $575.00
-dyno time, installs engine in dyno & perform break in procedure followed by testing & tuning. $600.00
(please note oil & fuel are extra) "

cutlassefi

Get in writing exactly what they're going to put in there, brands, part numbers etc. as well as every machining operation they will or will not be doing.
Overall sounds like a decent price, however a bit high imo on the roller valvetrain, both for the cam and the rockers.

joe_padavano

I agree, the price for the basic build sounds good, ASSUMING that the parts are brand-name quality. As noted, get everything in writing. Understand exactly what cam specs you're getting, what water pump, etc. Will the shop be firing the engine on a test stand before delivery? If not, get a clear understanding of warranty language. There have been a lot of problems with flattened cams on initial startup due to the reformulation of today's motor oils. If you are responsible for this initial startup and the cam goes flat, expect a fight unless you have the liability clearly written. Unless the price is firm (which is unlikely) also expect to find cost uppers during the teardown and machining process. As with remodeling a house, you never know exactly what you need until you have it completely apart.

The options are up to you. $180 for a Pertronix (or whatever they planned) sounds a little high. $1100 for a roller cam and lifters also sounds high. As an example, Lunati list price for a street roller cam and hydraulic roller lifters runs a little over $700. Only you know if you need a roller cam or not. The price for the roller rockers, assuming it includes machining the heads for the 3/8" studs, is not bad, but they will likely require non-stock valve covers or spacers, depending on the brand.

1971 442 convert

Thanks guys.

Some (dumb), questions
1. What causes a flattened cam? Is it the oil? I was under the impression that if I went with the flat lifters I would have to burn special oil. They are doing the breaking in and I was told they use special break in oil.

2. Not sure I understand the roller lifters and the advantage? I am told I can then burn regular oil but what are the other advantages?

3.Same question with the roller rockers? Advantages?

I want to keep the car stock with maybe a slight increase in HP.

Thanks again.

cutlassefi

Apples to Apples given the same duration at .050 a roller will typically give you more available lift as well as popping the valve open a bit faster. Therefore you can usually go with a bit "less" cam and still make good power. Roller rockers help reduce friction and reduce oil temps. Normally they are closer to the correct ratio as well. Stamped steel rockers have a tendency to not be too accurate.

1971 442 convert

Thanks Mark.
Nice video by the way.

cutlassefi

You're welcome and thank you. That's my 15 minutes of fame.

1971 442 convert

I asked for some more detail as suggested by you guys and wonder if you could offer me some feedback and advice with this additional info?

MACHINE OPERATIONS
-Block resurfacing
-Cylinder boring
-Cylinder honing
-Main bearing align honing
-Rod resizing
-Valve guide repair/replacing
-Valve refacing(or replacing with a higher quality valve if you choose)
-Valve seat refacing/replacement(we replace exhaust seats with new hardened seats,because they were designed to run on leaded fuel)
-Cylinder head resurfacing
-Crank grinding
-Crank, rods,& pistons all balanced

PARTS
-Piston: Keith Black or Speed Pro
-Rings: Speed Pro
-Main, Rod, & Cam Bearings: Sealed Power or Clevite
-Cam Shaft: Comp Cams
-Lifters: Comp Cams
-Oil Pump: Melling
-Timing Set: Cloyes
-Gaskets: Fel Pro or Victor or Mr Gasket
-Water Pump: Cardone

To answer some of your other questions
-Roller Camshaft adds horsepower due the reduction in friction, it also adds longevity as well as being almost bullet proof.
-Roller Rocker Arms are far superior to stock stamped steel rockers(especially olds rockers), they reduce friction, add longevity, as well as having accurate ratios. Heads will be machined for studs, and you may need new rocker covers or spacers(we won't know for sure until we have the motor here)
-You would get a 2 year warranty only if the motor is ran and tuned in our dyno.
-Any unforseen problems are hard to predict, as we don't have the motor here and it is not disassembled.
-The only way to know what horsepower you have now is to run it in the dyno before disassembly, but at a cost of $600.00, I personally don't think that knowledge is worth it.
-Again it's hard to say what horsepower you will have after rebuilding the motor, but you will know exactly how much horsepower and torque you have when we finish the dyno session

Thanks and I appreciate you time.

captjim

Roller cams and roller rockers are superior, but the question is; for this application (you stated stock-ish) are they cost effective upgrades? That extra $ might be better spent on the heads. Roller cams are nice and pretty much trouble-free. I dunno, $1700 sounds like a lot for a roller cam and rockers.

cutlassefi

x2

1971 442 convert

Good point boys.
How does the rest look?
What should I be doing to the heads?
Sorry I am not very knowledgeable with this.

1971 442 convert

Just a quick update. Engine was rebuilt pretty much stock. Dyno numbers were 338.9 hp and 478.7 torque.

nonhog

Which cam did you go with? 478 lt lb. sounds like FUN!

1971 442 convert

The motor is still in the dyno. I will get back to you on the cam when I get my list of actual parts that were used. Yeah it does sound like fun wish I knew what it was before I started.

442_Mustang

600 to dyno it? wow. Highest I have seen around here is 280.00 or 70/hr.

cutlassefi

I think he means engine dyno, not chassis dyno. $600.00 per day for an engine dyno is routine around here.

1971 442 convert

Yes engine dyno. They broke the motor in then changed oil then did some testing. Welcome to Canada everything is more expensive lol

ah64pilot

$650 here in Texas, Nickens Brothers Racing engines...I almost made as much power as it cost 602hp

442much

You may also want to take advantage of the CAD/USD exchange. One Canadian buck is getting $1.05 US so ordering parts from the US is a deal in most cases. Check it out. I am also getting my 455 redone as we speak. I basically told the guy what I want the car to do.

I want a car that I can drive cross country but still has some jam. I'm recurving the stock HEI and rebuilding the stock q-jet (with a few perf. mods.) No aluminim heads, or aftermarket intake, (it's not going to be raced). Tell them exactly what you expect the car to do and get it in writing.

1971 442 convert

I stand corrected "everything is bigger in Texas" lol
Nice power 64 what was the torque??

ah64pilot

602 hp / 738 tq - but I have $12K in this engine...I'm not sure you want to spend that much.

1971 442 convert

Wow and your right don't want to spend that much. Mine will be around $3500 for the stock rebuild.

442_Mustang

I was also referring to engine dynoing. Wow. We have that cheap in these parts...

firefrost gold

were is that at 442 mustang

442_Mustang

Here in Mpls.Mn I know of 3 engine places and it runs about 70 an hour..