CrazedCountryRebel

Well my car broke down, so I had it towed to the garage because I was pretty sure it was something major. It turned out that the timing chain had jumped, so they replaced that, but now the engine is rattling badly. They think it blew a rod bearing or something.They are going to take the engine out and disassemble it. I am thinking about just having them rebuild the whole thing while it's out, and I thought I might as well do a high performance rebuild. I am looking at rebuild kits from summit and they have different bore sizes, what is the bore size on a 1968 455? I do not want to bore it out. These are the other parts I picked out.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1442-KIT/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60803LK/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73126K2LUN/

also here are the rebuild kits.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Y...s/?Ns=Rank|Asc

Will my Th-400 and rear end be able to handle this much power? It's a Delta 88, not sure what gearing.

alek72us

The stock bore of a 455 is 4.125. but u do need to do a tear down and measure ur bores before deciding if it needs to be be bored or not.
u want adjustable rocker arms not just roller tips.
others here will help u on the cam. cutlassefi (i think) will help allot on that.
ur th-400 and rear end should be fine because u r pretty much doing a stock rebuild. so ur really not adding that much power.
If u want to do a high performance rebuild u need to look in to flat top piston, aluminum heads or porting/polishing a good big valve head (don't know what heads u have), boring ur block. a 68 455 is already the high compression 455 so a basic rebuild kit. new rings,bearings and gaskets. will build u a fresh stock 455. which ain't bad.

cutlassefi

Best thing to do is sit down and decide what your ultimate goal/budget is then go from there. There are many here that will help.

philnjean

I have a 68 delta 88, 455 that I just (am still) rebuilding. Bored it .030. Put in a comp cam 42-224-4, lifters, Harland sharp roller rockers, double roller timing set, edelbrock heads, dual plane intake, Accel electronic distributor, Holley 850 vacuum secondary carb, true dual exhaust through stock iron exhaust manifolds (no headers available because of the close steering gear and suspension clearances). In addition to boring, had the block line bored and decked. And put in a 1800 - 2000 rpm stall converter. I can tell the power difference, but it's nothing fantastic. Transmission will easily handle it as long as it's healthy. Stock 68 455 makes about 450 lb/ft of torque. You're not going to get that much more out of your rebuild if any at all. Gearing in the rear end is WAY too tall for any real off the line performance. I'm not sure if it's an open rear end, but I suspect it is. I just got the car on the road and haven't punched it enough to see if the tires will break free. But I wouldn't be surprised if they won't. I'm too lazy right now to jack up the rear end and check by spinning the tires.

Stock 1968 455 4v is in the 350 - 360 hp range. I think with all I've done I might be in the 400 - 425 range. Tons of money and time for modest HP gains and unimpressive performance gains. I need to do some fine tuning so I might get a tad bit more out of it.

If you're interested I'll send you my build sheet. Might give you some ideas about what (or what not) to do.

gearheads78

Not to take away from the OP but if you can't blow the tires off at will with that combo someting is very wrong. Did you degree the cam? That motor should not be lazy at all.

ah64pilot

+1

Here's what I just built, it's a moderately high performance build and it ONLY cost $11,000. You can see it on my major build link in my signature:

Fa Block - bored .060" (468 C.I.), decked .006" (maybe more by previous build, deck height is less than .005), de-burred, oil restrictors in 2,3,4 main journals
- Nodular crank - Shot peened, ARP main studs, Billet steel main cap straps (2,3,4 mains)
- Stock rods - Shot peened, ARP rod bolts
- Keith Black IC886 Flat top pistons .060" oversize (CR 10.63 w/ .040" gasket)
- Engle cam - (Mondello MPV 1-2) Solid flat tappet 557/574 lift, 244/252 Duration @ .050", 110 lobe separation
- Timing chain - Cloyes true roller (double) w/ cam bushing
- Push rods - 3/8" oversize, hardened, oil restricting
- Rocker arms - 1:6 ratio adjustable aluminum roller
- Edelbrock heads - CNC ported (intake runners), ARP 7/16" head studs
- Edelbrock Torker intake - Ported, port matched to heads, plenum cone
- Demon "Mighty Demon" 850 4150 style carb
- MSD Billet Distributor, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 2 coil, and MSD 8mm plug wires
- Doug Thorley long tube headers (Nickel chrome plated) - (Not included in cost of engine rebuild)

**YOU REALLY NEED TO RECONSIDER THE HIGH PERFORMANCE REBUILD IF YOU'RE HESITANT TO EVEN BORE THE BLOCK**

CrazedCountryRebel

I have found headers for this car... I just wish they weren't so expensive, I paid like $275 for ceramic coated headers for my truck.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-3202-1HKR/

CrazedCountryRebel

Really? I actually accidentally broke the tires free on mine several times, and I didn't even have in in the special "super" gear. The gas pedal is very stiff and it is easy to push it too hard.

CrazedCountryRebel

I have read in several places that it is 400hp stock, if it is the ultra high compression version.The NADA website says it is 400hp http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Ca...p-Coupe/Values

CrazedCountryRebel

Isn't 455ci enough? Anyway I am starting to reconsider though, that is why I made this post I wanted to see what i was getting into.I will probably just do a stock rebuild with a racing cam/lifter set, I am leaning toward this one http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60803LK/
and these
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73126K2LUN/
Will these work with everything else being stock?

CrazedCountryRebel

Wow, I don't want to spend anywhere near that much. The car needs a lot of other work which is going to take a lot of money(paint, interior) I wasn't planning on rebuilding at all until this happened. I am just planning on "refurbishing" this car and using it as a daily driver because it is a very nice car and I HATE modern cars! My other car is a 77 Ford truck which I have had as my daily driver for the past 4 years. Once I get my car back hopefully I will be able to finally have the bodywork and paint done on that.

CrazedCountryRebel

yeah that's pretty much what I'm leaning towards, maybe just a cam. Would I be right in assuming this car (especially with a cam) would be able to beat a 396 Chevelle, or anything similar?I would think the extra power would make up for the extra weight. Most people around here just have those stupid 4 cylinder Hondas and such, I take them on with even my 351m Ford Truck.

alek72us

Yeah ur delta is heavy a good rebuild torque converter and some rear end gears u will out run that 396 chevelle. unless he has a build 396 and torque converter and rear end gears. u just never know. olds 455 are torque monster and torque is what wins the race.

i found a .030 over 455 with forged high compression pistons and a fireball cam with e-heads for 100$. i didn't buy a rebuild kit. i pieced mine together. rings, bearings, timing chain, oil pump and gaskets. and spent less then 400$ so in my whole engine i have less than 500$ into it. i will eventually get a bigger better cam and adjustable rockers just don't have the money right now.

geckonz08

[quote=ah64pilot;273736]+1

Here's what I just built, it's a moderately high performance build and it ONLY cost $11,000.
quote]

That is a serious sum of cash . Must be a zillion other ways to get a nice BBO motor for less than half that price .
mike

ah64pilot

$500 here and there adds up fast. My machine work was $1700, Heads were $2000 w/ CNC porting, Intake manifold w/ porting and stuffer was $450, Pistons were $500, Aluminum roller rockers were $450, Cam and lifters $300, pushrods $200, SFI flexplate $200, SFI balancer $150, Carb $500, Electric fuel pump $200, MSD ignition $500...do I need to keep going? You can build a decent 455 for half that much you're right. I didn't want a 'decent' 455. I wanted one I could abuse for years to come that would smoke most of the other 'decent' 455s.

cutlassefi

It's easy to spend a lot of money, but $1700.00 for machine work?
For that I hope they did it with a Bor-Tru and honed it with a torque plate.
I guess if you're satisfied that's all that matters!

ah64pilot

All of the above. It was done by Nickens Bros racing engines in Conroe TX. They bored it, decked it, honed it to look like a mirror finish, shot peened rods and crank, turned crank under .010", resized rods, lined up mains and cam journals, installed oil restrictors in 2,3,4 main journals, balanced rotating assembly, assembled the bottom end using Clevite bearings, zero gap rings, and billet steel straps over main caps, and degreed the cam.

I think I got my money's worth and I am SUPER happy with the machine work. It's an awesome feeling to walk into a shop that has a parking lot full of white racing trailors, a few sponsored trailers, and pro-stock big blocks being assembled in an air conditioned office-like area. The front office has shelves as long and as high as the largest wall in my living room full of Wally's (NHRA race trophies). I was more than comfortable using them for my build. And they had it all done in a month!

ziff396

$11,000. WOW. Maybe a nice shop etc. but WOW! That thing better handle above 6k rpm or better all day long for that price. I have a lowly 455 w/edelbrocks etc. that has run 6k and still holds together for a rough total of about 6k.

CrazedCountryRebel

I hoping to spend under $3,000 total. I forgot to mention it already has an Edelbrock performer intake and carb (came with car) . I considered going with dual carbs but I don't really want to spend the money, I can always do it later. Anyway, do you think it can handle that cam/lifter kit without upgrading anything else other than those valve springs? here are the links again. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60803LK/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73126K2LUN/

CrazedCountryRebel

I'm looking at torque converters, what is a good flash stall rating for this engine? 2,000rpm? I know almost nothing about rear end gears, where do you even get them?

geckonz08

good on ya

cutlassefi

That cam is a bit much for that heavy of a car unless you get a really good gear, 3.73 or better.
Try something a little smaller on a tighter lobe sep or I can have something done for you.
You'll still need to know your compression ratio, gear, torque converter, whether or not you'll have headers etc.

Jmo

CrazedCountryRebel

how do I find out that information? I am going to have headers, but will probably come later. Only because the only ones I could find are those hooker's for over $700, and they are actually on sale, normally they are $800.Anyone know where to get cheaper ones?

cutlassefi

Once you know what piston you have as well as having someone check the gear then that will give us a much better idea of what you're working with.

ah64pilot

I'm so glad I joined this site...I enjoy being criticized by "know it all" types. And I thought I was joining to share some of my 20 years of experience with '72 Cutli and learn something new from old timers...I never knew I would be so fortunate as to beckon your critique. Thanks pal!

Hey, I also forgot to mention the $1700 I spent on fab'd brackets and polished alternator, ps pump, and sanden compressor...I guess I should've been happy with bending my stock brackets to clear the taller valve covers, but then I'd have to buy new brackets for the other 455 going in the other Cutlass convertible that my dad owns...what to do...

oldcutlass

I personally agree with your opinion!! Performance is costly, not for the weak of heart or checkbook!!! In most cases you get what you pay for!. I agree 100% with the budget vs performance assessment prior to starting the project.

I also agree with the others, that you can throw a set of rings, inserts, oil pump, and a popcorn cam and impress others for under $1000.

It all depends on what your after!

alek72us

Hey i never said anything about ur build. i'm a machinist. i know how easy and fast the money can build. i lucked out on finding my engine already bored with high compression pitons, good heads. crappy cam. lol so yeah all i needed was the bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. and if i didn't do all this on my own it would be more money. a 455 is still a 455 wiether there ia 100$ versus 15000$ in to it.

geckonz08

That is not a criticism .Merely a comment inferring if you wish to invest $11k ,thats cool and I am sure the engine reflects that .
Far for me to be critical .I am no expert. Even if I were , I wouldn`t criticise but offer advice/suggestion which this site is renowned for.
mike

CrazedCountryRebel

Looks like these cars were 3.08 stock, I am thinking about changing it to 3.73. (https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...questions.html) and as for the torque converter I found this chart http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performan...59966/10002/-1
but I would like to find a lower priced one. Then probably that cam and valve springs I mentioned. I don't know about the compression ratio, and someone mentioned pistons earlier which I would like to leave stock.I'm not sure I will be able to afford the headers, I may have to wait on those. Thanks for the help guys, turns out I knew even less than I though I did but I am trying to learn.

CrazedCountryRebel

well it looks like they don't make aftermarket gears for this rear. So I am stuck with the 3:08 unless I can find a 3:23 set for sale. What would be my cam lift limit with stock components except the Edelbrock performer intake and carb it came with, probably headers, and a mild torque converter?

cutlassefi

Allowable lift is determined more by the springs and valvetrain. Excessive duration for the combination is what kills driveability.

Based on your current info, I'd do something like a 220/228 on a 108, lift would be around .500 which is normally o.k. with a stock type valvetrain. However you would probably need better springs. That cam would give you good low end to low midrange power with a bit of a tone.

When you get everything sorted out then we can get a little more specific.
Hope this helps.

CrazedCountryRebel

this is about the closest to that I could find http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60800LK/ so how about that and these springs http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73126K2LUN/

cutlassefi

Did you ever figure out what compression ratio you're going to have?
That cam is too small for anything over 9.0:1, and why are you using a fast ramp cam?

Just an fyi, once you get all your info solidified I can help with a kit as well. I've already mentioned a recommended cam, that's based on about a 9.5:1 compression ratio and your current gear. Try along those lines.

CrazedCountryRebel

I Don't think I am ever going to find out the compression ratio... And I couldn't find a cam with those specs, this was one of the closest. As I said before I am new at this. I probably won't even have it rebuilt, just have the problem fixed depending on what it is, and throw a cam and torque converter in it. He is really busy and he has already had it over a month, I am really starting to miss the car. I guess I could ask him to find out the compression ratio if I really need to know that to choose a cam.

442garage

I fully appreciate and understand your lack of knowledge in putting together a cost effective drive train that you will be happy with. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I would suggest you educate yourself by buying Bill Trovato's "How to Build Max-Performance Oldsmobile V-8s" or purchase "Wild About Cars Engine Modification and Tuning Guide". This will be the best money you can spend on your car and will provide you with the knowledge to make an informed choice, rather than "what about this part, and what do you think about that part?
Your friend,
Les

70Wcars

You can spend as much or nearly as little as you want. As we have seen from AH64 Pilot, a well thought out and balanced ( as in all the parts work WITH each other ) combo will cost a bit. But I have put together a few builds that run well with prices in the $3500.00 to $5500.00 range.

The engine ALONE in my 10 sec Bracket car cost right at $15000.00 new, but I picked up for half that through buying it when it was a couple of years old.

You may consider looking into re-sale parts especially for things such as Rockers, Carbs, Valve Covers, Exhaust components etc. Lots of guys sell stuff with little or no miles on them because they have changed their minds about a project, or only used a part for a short time ( ie. Dyno run ) then switched parts.

Just my .02

AH64 Pilot, I race sometimes at Sealy as well as Baytown, bring yours out sometime, I would love to see that set-up.

Danny

ah64pilot

Hey Danny, I'd love to! The car is at paint right now but when it's done I'll have it at the track (Baytown) a couple weekends a month. I'll hit you up when it's time. I'd love to see that bracket car and engine.

I don't know what to expect with my car, I am hoping to skip 11's and go into 10's but who knows. I did build the engine with that in mind but like you said, it may come apart again if it doesn't do the job.

Right now I'm contemplating pulling the heads off while it's on the stand and having a more aggressive port job done. I'd rather have too much now than not enough later once the engine is installed. We'll see...