Charlie_brown

Well the motor is a 1976 olds 455 from a olds 98. I'm at the end of the build and just have honing and balancing left to do. Its time for me to buy pistons and everyone is out of Federal Mogul Pistons. I've called a couple of places and have gotten a good price on some flat top keith blacks but have also heard that they hold heat. Any advice/ input/ 2 cents would be greatly appreciated. Oh i'm looking to stay around a low 10:1 or a high 9:1 compression ratio. the heads are c heads with (i think but am not sure) a little taken off they are 79-80cc heads comp cam everything in em too! Stock rods and crank. And the motor is bored 30 over. thanks

vista461

I don't think you'll get that low of a comp with flat tops

Charlie_brown

from what the manufacturer says (at least on the kb pistons) @80cc is 10:1

gearheads78

keeps your eyes open. I picked up a set of 2323f30 new in the box yesterday local. It will make you sick if i say what I paid so I'll keep that low number to myself

Charlie_brown

Prices i don't even wanna talk I just got off the phone with everyones best friend Mondello and they told me something about some cryogenically frozen pistons and pins that "are the best". Get this $599.00 Thats more than what i payed for my motor and trans to start with. And i honestly set here and debated for a minute if i wanted to get em. lol. I got a qoute frm PAW that was more decent for some Federal Mogul, SRP, and Probe pistons. This is my first build and i've never heard of Probe and honestly i usually tend to stick to the saying you get what you pay for so for any other reason than that i wouldn't know which to pick out of the speed pro or srp. I just need some proven opinion on what direction to take this.

citcapp

I run the keith black pistons and they do not hold heat any worse then any other piston. IF you use stock C heads then you can go with the 15cc dish pistions and meet you goals. Try e-bay many time you will find then their for lower cost thats where I bought mine for $300.00 including shipping

tdubis

Has anybody ever used Mahle-Clevite pistons?

cutlassefi

YES, I love their stuff! Did some testing for them a few years back on some outboard stuff. Great guys and IMO Mahle Forged pistons are a great product, light strong and have a first rate ring pack. I think their BBO pistons only come in a different comp distance and flat top? Not sure they make anything for "street" Olds.

Whatever, great product IMO.

tdubis

Glad to hear it....I was researching the parts that the shop used for my 455 rebuild(by the previous owner) and I had never heard the name...They used the high-comp pistons to boot.....I was kinda worried
they used some crappy off brand. Thanks

BIGJERR

The Speedpro piston that replaced the old TRW 2323 are a great deal for the money.........I'am running them and I'am spraying NOS with them with no troubles for 6 years.........I think Summit has them in stock................Jerr

88 coupe

Not according to their catalog.



PN 244-1747 (8 cc recess) should net the OP about 9¾ to 1, depending which head gasket is used.

Norm

cutlassefi

Let me rephrase that, I'm not sure they make anything in a forged piston, other than for stroker applications etc. Is that better Norm? Actually I knew the answer already, as I mentioned I speak with the guys at Mahle Motorsports fairly often.

Norm, in your hurry to prove someone wrong, in this case probably especially me, you failed to take a few more seconds to substantiate your claim. Those Mahle-Clevite Pistons you listed, unlike the Mahle Motorsports Forged pistons I was referring to, are cast replacement pistons of which some sizes have been discontinued or are not available right now. Call them for yourself at 1-800-223-9152, I spoke with Kyle. If I'm not mistaken this thread started as "455 Forged Pistons" did it not?

Thank you for yet another opportunity to prove your ignorance and instigative nature. Keep em comin' NORM!

442scotty

I have the L2323F-30 put in mine last fall...they come with coated skirts now...engine runs great..no problems yet...cost me about 320 for the set...works for me...The shop I used also uses probe...I called probe...checked them out...seem to have a good name... and they would have to make a custom set up as they didnt stock them so I went with the others

gearheads78

Probe is a great company as far as preformance and custom pistons. I know of a few wicked fast SBF motors running them.

Charlie_brown

I greatly appreciate all the feed back. I think i'm set on the speed pro for the price and from what i here about em. Problem is no one i've check with so far has them and the only folks i've found so far that have em is Oriely's auto parts and they want like $75 a piece. jegs & summit both have em on back order and will take a couple of weeks which doesn't fit in my plans as i wanted to have the motor done in a couple of weeks. Does any one know who has a set?

88 coupe

Once again, I am impressed with your "experience/credentials".

Too bad I have none, or I might be qualified to post on this site.

That you think I am here to "prove" anything, is "proof" that your statement is wrong.

What "claim" is that?

Here it is, again:

A simple answer, to a simple question. Nothing more, nothing less.

And tell them that "cutlassefi" says the catalog I downloaded from their website is full of errors?

Did anyone say it did not?

If you actually have "proof" of anything, send it to me in a PM.

Norm

BIGJERR

I am sure the poster loves your crapping up his thread with the multi qoutes to give someone shyt..........I'am not impressed...

88 coupe

Simply responding to a post that was directed at me.

Your off topic remark belongs in a PM.

Norm

Run to Rund

Summit website says will ship est. 8/10. If you need them quicker (and the engine shouldn't be bored until pistons are in hand), try PAW or Speedomotive; they might have them. What's your hurry? For compression, how much you deck the block and surface the heads is important. You risk acting in haste and regretting in leisure when dealing with critical engine components.

BIGJERR

Your off topic response back could of been a PM..........touche`

cutlassefi

The guy is looking for Forged pistons not the pistons listed here, they're cast. and no the catalog isn't full of errors, you are.

BIGJERR

Well I was a few diffrent Olds forums and found this link for you

http://www.highperformanceolds.com/p...hp?f=15&t=1143

The gent on here has TWO SETS of 2323 pistons and both used but dont be afraid of that ......................Jerr

MN71W30

455 oldsmobile - $200 (New Brighton)

Date: 2009-08-01, 7:41AM CDT
Reply to: see below



New 455 olds pistons Fed Mogul forged pistons. Pt.#L2323F-60. .060 over with bearings Call Dan@651 633 4562

• Location: New Brighton
• it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 1300061941
Craigs list Minneapolis. I got a set in my 455 and they got me down the track yesterday nicely. I wouldn't use Keith Black because of a problem I had with them. They are fragile and to replace one can be hard to do.
Dave

88 coupe

It would have been, if I had replied to a PM.

As long as you, and your friends, keep your childish attacks public, I will respond in public.

To put it more simply: If you don't start s**t, there won't be any.

Norm

88 coupe

Everyone: Sorry about my rude use of the bold fonts.

Here it is, again:

If you wish to continue trashing this thread, you can do so by yourself.

Norm

BIGJERR

LOL Your a Richard......

380 Racer

^^^^^

Charlie_brown

I'm roflmao at this whole thing. I'm just suprised at the fact no one stepped in to instigate lol. I think I've made my mind up though and am going with the KB's. Oh and i'm in a hurry cuz i'm only 22 and i ain't gone be young forever and as always I wanna see how i measure up to a couple other folks. The motor has been in the shop since feb and this is the last part i need before all the final things and assemble can be done so. I WANT MY MOTOR NOW. Can you understand? Unfortunately I didn't know that you were supposed to have the pistons prior to boring the block so its already been bored 30 over an if it don't fit yeah for me, we'll go 60 over. As far as surfacing the heads i got these from racingjunk.com and i think they may have already been surfaced. The block itself is only going to be sqaured so i don't think the cr will deviat much from what i measured last week. I'm new to this so all the coments are always greatly appreciated. Thanks

jensenracing77

being in a hurry and building an engine don't mix. it will cost you big $$$

cutlassefi

Sooooo... you couldn't have just said, "hey Charlie Brown your initial post said you were looking for forged pistons but the Mahle-Clevite division only makes cast pistons" And kept it at that? Probably not huh? Then you wouldn't have had a reason to post something to make it look like you knew what you were talking about. Or maybe just cuz you didn't know that till I pointed it out? Hmmm.

Glad you've decided, KB pistons should work fine.

cutlassefi

Is that Richard Whiskey, or maybe Dick Liquor for short?

BIGJERR

I refuse to answer that question

380 Racer

ROFLMAO!!

MN71W30

Inspect the pistons closely when you get them. KB pistons are fragile if dropped and I saw a damaged box of them heading back to KB from an engine builder because one was broke. He said it has happened before. I had a builder install one that he didn't see a crack and the motor lasted 20 minutes. It cost me alot of money.
My advice for what its worth is to get this set for close to the same price. They may be heavier and I'm no expert but this set got me down the track at 103 miles per hour last week with a bad clutch. I may have had a rare, bad experience but KB won't even sell me a single piston because it is an odd size and they won't break up a set for me after I spent hundreds of dollars for their hypercracktics. Sorry getting wound up again.
Just my 2 cents.



Federal Mogul CSMHP822-411 - Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits

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• $589.95
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• <LI class=pdetail>Engine Rebuild, Forged Dish, 4.165 in. Bore, .010 in. Rod, .010 in. Main, Oldsmobile, 455, Kit
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  • Application Specific Part: Check Application
• Estimated Ship Date: 9/4/2009
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• Overview
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BrandFederal MogulManufacturer's Part NumberCSMHP822-411Part TypeEngine Rebuild KitsProduct LineFederal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild KitsSummit Racing Part NumberFEM-CSMHP822-411Pistons IncludedYesPiston MaterialForged aluminumPiston StyleDishPiston Rings IncludedYesPiston Ring Facing MaterialMolyPiston and Ring Oversize (in)0.040 in.Rod Bearings IncludedYesRod Bearing Undersize (in)0.010 in.Rod Bearing Undersize (mm)0.25mmMain Bearings IncludedYesMain Bearing Undersize (in)0.010 in.Main Bearing Undersize (mm)0.25mmCam Bearings IncludedYesGaskets IncludedYesOil Pump IncludedYesOil Pump VolumeStandard-volumeOil Pump PressureStandard pressureOil Pump Driveshaft IncludedNoFreeze Plugs IncludedYesCamshaft IncludedNoLifters IncludedNoTiming Chain and Gears IncludedNoAssembly Lubricant IncludedYesPlastigage IncludedYesQuantitySold as a kit.NotesApproximate compression ratio 9.6:1 with a 80cc head.

What you need to get the job done.

These Summit/Federal Mogul Premium engine rebuild kits will make your performance

oldstrio

JUST FOR INFO DICK MILLER HAS SPEED PRO PISTONS IN STOCK, I JUST BOUGHT A SET LAST MONTH.

sethj78

Who's Dick Miller? I just ordered Keith Black hypereutectic's .030 for $309.95 because summit canceled my order for the speed pro forged.

citcapp

I have the Keith Black pistons in my 455 and have had no problems what so ever. Light weight tight clearence.

BIGJERR

Guess we can pick out the diehard Olds guys this way.........
how about

Joe Mondello
Dave Smith
Dick Miller
Bill Travato
Andy Miller
John Stolpa

To name a few..........Google these guys and see what you find

Make sure to add Oldsmobile in there or who knows what will come up.....LOL

yes I relize we all are not into racing Oldsmobiles but I thought everyone knew these guys................Jerr

oldstrio

I guess i should have listed the others but i knew he had them for sure
(dick miller racing) sorry about that.

hotrodpc

Yikes, just my 2 cents as if it matters. But it if slows Charlie Brown down, then it worked. Someone already said it about being in a hurry and building DON'T MIX. I just want to reitterate that. Change your mind set NOW, and NO you don't want your motor NOW. How about you would like your motor running by Christmas? I only say this cuz you mention 2 things, 1 your first build, 2 you are 22yo. SLOWWW DOWN. If you don't, I can assure you. that you will have wasted all your efforts and all your money, which for a 22yo unless you got lucky and/or did the right thing and got an education, money does not come easy to you. Some Go, and Some Blow, which do you want to have??? Just saying change the mind set and do what you can to kill all the excitement. One minor error, or miss one minor detail and you get to start all over again. You are hoping for years of fun and good times with the motor so another day, another weekend, another week even another month is no big deal. The longer it lasts the longer you can be proud of it. Knock on wood, I have never built a motor that blew, but I am slowwww at building them. I have a bro that wanted me to help him build a 4.6 Mustang motor. Although its against my religion to build a Ford motor, I was not going to turn down a bro in need of help. I just told him we had to close the garage door so noone seen me working on it and I would have to wear gloves so it didn't touch my skin. At the time I got up at 3am and worked from 4am-4pm. He wanted me at his house at 4:30pm to work on his motor. Of course I was tired as hell and told him, I am off work tomorrow and I will set the whole day aside for your motor build. He was pissed and said he'd just do it hisself. I warned him not to, just to wait 16 more hours and let me get some sleep. The next morning I call his house, no answer. Called again about Noon and woke him up. He told me he was up til 4am building his motor and proud of hisself that he is going to install it as soon as he gets up and that he did not need any help with that part. Calls me up about 4pm and says it won't start, whats wrong? I ran through a checklist of things with him, and came to the conclusion his timing chains were off. Guess What??? Zero clearance motor. He trashed his heads cranking the motor over so many times. He gives up and takes about a month break. $1000 later he has new heads ready to bolt on. All is good and he bolted them on one day while I was working and got his car running. After I got off work, he calls me up and says he has been driving his car that afternoon to break it in, taking it easy on it, no hot *******, varying his speed and rpms as I told him too, and that he has almost 100 miles on the new motor and its running good buts its making a wierd a noise just off of idle and I need to listen to it, so he'll be over shortly. He gets here and I told him, I do not want to be the one to give you the bad news, take it over to the machine shop and ask Bart what he thinks it is. He asked me if I had an idea. I said, sure I have an idea, but I don't want to be the one to tell you that you have a rod knocking. He said Noway, you're right I am going to see Bart. So I went with him. Bart comes out. Bro raises it just off idle and Bart says, Oh that's a rod knock isn't this a new motor? Bro said yeah, its got about 115 miles on it, how do I fix it. Bart said, new crank and whichever rod is knocking will need replaced or reconditioned. This story has gotten long and can go much longer, but just let me end it with, guess whose fault all this bad motor build is according to my bro? You guessed it. Its my fault cuz with 2 hrs of sleep that day, I would not go help him build his motor when I suggested, hey let me get some sleep and we will build your motor tomorrow. And he was 36yo, not 22yo. Don't be STUPID like my bro. I think you get he moral of the story. Take your time, slow down, change your mind set, and don't let the excitement take over. There will plenty of time for that when you can melt off your first set of tires after a proper break in procedure. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions, don't be afraid to use an *** load of lube and plasti guage, and if using a flat tappet cam, DO NOT use regular motor oil. Some of the guys here can tell you what to use, I will need to ask about that myself. I think the last oil you could use for break in was Rotella diesel motor oil, but I don't even think you can use that anymore. The EPA has made the manufactures take substances out of the motor oil that you buy off the shelf today. If you just follow your cam manufactures procedures or use their recommended product or additive, you should be fine. I also recommend using a GOOD quality torque wrench and I like to have mine checked and/or calibrated before every engime build. Snap-On or Matco guy never had a problem checking mine for me at no charge. He may have taken off with it, but I had it back in a couple days. So that is something you can have done or do while you are waiting on your pistons to arrive. Good Luck with it.