citcapp

Hi guys,

Here is my best run at detailing how I built the motor mounts and mounted them to the 57 Oldsmobile frame. Excuse the drawings I am not and engineer. if you want a better copy to look at send me a pm with your e-mail and i will attach a Adobe file and send to. There is a free Adobe reader on the Internet.

citcapp

Here are the details

citcapp

If you can't read these attachements then down load the free Adobe reader of the internet and load it on you computer then you can open the attachments

Olds64

Thanks a million for the documents. After looking at them I think I have a pretty good idea of how you got your 455 to fit. I am sur this information will be useful for anyone else planning a 455 swap (regardless of what car they are putting it in).

Oldsguy just got his 455 in his 46 started last night. Now I have to get motivated and get my 455 transplanted. Seeing other people's success is AWSOME!

Oldsguy

Excellent documentation and effort. Thanks for sharing that data. It looks similar to what I had to do to fit the 455 in my '46 except the front mounts I made were more boxed with the bottom open to access the ends of the bolts to attach the nuts to the Oldsmobile engine mounts and they were located in a little bit different location on the frame rails. Nice work!

citcapp

Thanks for the compliments guys. I am working on an idea for mounts that work on the back two bolt locations. In the near future I will post a idea for review the clears the stock box location

citcapp

Got the Olds back from the Exhaust shop today. 2.5" pipes really make it breath. I have ordered a underdash cable operated wiper kit that will give me the space to Relocate the MSD controller to the old wiper spot and help with the power braker 7" booster, and I will make a dicision on which disc break conversion I am going to go to this weekend. Either Mike Pemberton or Scarbird. They both have good points. I have been researching self adjusting 11" to 12" rear replacement and just for kicks front self adjusting front brakes and have spent many hours in the local wrecking yards. After lots on measuring. I am comming closer. I have cut a deal with a yard that will let me bring samples home and mess with them. I am commited to finding a solution. Another thing I am working on is finding a 14" blank Wheel that will work with a disc break conversion kit. Scarebird is local and I will visit him soon to talk about it. I don't like goingto the 15" wheel because oh the hub caps and wide whites on my 57. I will keep posting updates as I get more information. Thanks 595959 for the wheel pictures helps alot when doing comparrisons

citcapp

Here it is guys, My build sheet. Hope it makes sense

59-59-59

I saw another '57 with the front disc brake conversion and the owner told me you were kind of limited to an aftermarket rim. I didnt ask why, but he was limited to torq - thrust, cragars or steelies, or basically anything 5 on 5 aftermarket 14' rims

64Rocket

On your calculator you used the wrong bore size. .040 should be 4.166.
did you measure the piston dish on the .040 pistons? Also is the deck clearence zero.
I figure the pistons have 18 cc and I come up with 10.10 to 1

Gene

citcapp

When I look up the Bore size in the Oldsmobile charts is shows that the 455 has a cylinder Bore of 4.126. My math puts this at 4.126 x .040 = 4.292 bore. The Keith Black specs show the Piston dish at 15 cc's. 1/3 of the piston is flat. Yes the deck clearence is flat.

Pat

citcapp

Yes, it is a problem. The Mike Pemberton converson uses a 12" rotor, You need a wheel diameter of a least 14.625 to clear even at that you most likley have to grind the ears of the rotors. The caliper will not clear a 14" disc brake rim. The Scarbird conversion uses a 11.5" Ford Thunderbird rear disc rotor, Same problem. Looks like I will have to sell my 5 new 8.75 x 14 wide whites on 14" rims. Damm I hate to give up the Super 88 Hub Caps for some funky wheel. I am not thru liiking around. I believe I have the rear adjustable brake figured out. I will pick the parts at the U-pull yard this week. I will let you know how this works out. I am also looking at a front adjustable set up that might work. I will let you know on that as well. Maybe I won't go to disc brakes after all

88 coupe

4.126 + .040 = 4.166.

Norm

88 coupe

Using this calculator and the information given,




CR is close to 10.4:1. Not an ideal choice, for use with pump gas and an "off the shelf" cam.




Factory deck height would have been a slightly "friendlier 10.1:1.

I'm guessing, that, you told them to align hone, and deck the block.

Norm

citcapp

Norm,

Got it, I guess staying up until late at night doing all the data entries got to me. I multiplied the .040 instead of adding, duh,. The lesson learned. Re-read your information before your post to make sure you don't make this kind of mistake.

595959

Thanks for catching this as well. As stated above lesson learned

Thanks for all the input guys

citcapp

Yes, that is correct, Please explain the freindlier 10.1:. This is my first Oldsmobile build and if a better cam choice would fit my overall performance. Then I would consider it when figure out the rear end choice which I also know effects the outcome

citcapp

64 Rocket,


Screwed this one up. It did not make since to me until I read Norms answer. Your right mutiplied instead of adding. To maney late nights working on the Olds and trying to keep up on things. Like the carpenter says "mesure twice and cut once" Next time I will check my math better better posting.

Thanks again

Pat

citcapp

Here is the corrected build sheets. Thanks for the input guys

88 coupe

It would be friendlier, if we were discussing iron heads, but in this case, I was reading aluminum and thinking iron.

Conventional thinking is: More compression can be (or must be?) used with aluminum heads. This is an area, where I have no experience, and little knowledge.

If your heads were iron you would need a unique profile, with an intake closing point, that would change your dynamic CR from about 9.7 to 8.5:1, or so, without increasing duration. But your heads are not iron.

Rear end choice has far less to do with cam specs, than with how the car is set up and how it is to be used. A "Bonneville" car, for instance, could use the same engine as a "dragster" but it would not be competitive, if the same rear end gears were used.

Norm

citcapp

Thanks Norm,

Anyone with Alumimum head experience please chime in with your thought, opnions

Thanks

Pat

64Rocket

The reason I ask about the piston "cc" is that they advertise with a standard piston. Yours are an oversize so the "cc" will be more. I'm thinking more like 18 cc's. With your zero deck, and your heads I figure about 10.1 to 1 you should be fine, just run the high test or an additive in the tank. Your cam will work just fine, should give you that lumpy sound and a bunch of get up and go. I set my timming at 18* at 900 rpm and 36* total at 2500 rpm. A set of 3.08 gears will be just right for crusing and for some highway travel. If you run less than 3.08 gears, your get up and go will be a little doggy, but down the freeway you will fly.

Gene

citcapp

Thanks for the replay Gene, I did not consider the bore increase on the dish as a area to address because they do not mention anything about that on their web-site. They use just the .030 as a base line and leave it up to us to figure it out. The 10 to 1 is what I was looking for anyway to run 92 octane. My engine builder is a great guy and new this is what I wanted. So now I feel better. Do you know anyone who has the gears you mention available?

Thanks
]
and by the way I am looking for POSI as well. Seems hard to find.

dan2286

Hey Norm, thats a great looking car. How come I never see cars from that era at the track? Im getting sick of all of the muscle cars being the the oldest ones I see at the track!

Oldsguy

If you come over to KCIR next spring you will see my '46.

citcapp

I'll look foward to it, My wife and I have a dream of finding a small tear drop trailer and putting it behind the Olds and doing the route 66 thing and meet some on you guys along the hiways and byways of this great country

88 coupe

Not according to the KB site. The same KB site where I verified his 15 CC spec, before I "plugged" it into the calculator.

Still using the same calculator,




if you had left the deck alone, and took about .007" off the piston top, you would have been there.

Norm

64Rocket

Well Norm

In the calculator you used the wrong bore size and the piston "CC" you used is wrong.
In the .060 "KB" pistons I used was 18 cc. Yes the site says 15 cc but it does not say for all sizes. I checked mine and they were bigger CC's

Gene

88 coupe

Silly me. Corrected it and took another .002" off the piston, to compensate.

I subtracted 1 CC, from 15, to compensate for the .007" shorter piston top.

OK. If .030" = 15 CC, and .060" = 18 CC, then (interpolating) .040" = 16 CC, and .050" = 17 CC.

Again, this time using 16 CC,




both the deck and the pistons would remain untouched.

Norm

64Rocket

Norm,
Standard bore is equal to 15cc's. Bigger bore more CC's.

At any rate the compression is around 10 to 1, and with his heads he is good to go. Should be a good runner.

Gene

88 coupe

From a production standpoint, this makes no sense.

So, I did what I always do when something makes no sense. I went straight to the source:




The reply agrees with the the KB page, in question.

It would be, if we assumed his pistons have the same dish as yours, but:

Yes. He can easily mask any CR discrepancies by varying the ignition advance.

Yes, but he will never know how much power he gained (or lost) by skipping the most important part of the entire project.

Norm

88 coupe

Thanks.

I can only speak for myself.

Mine are all street/highway cars, and I use timeslips for tuning (and "bragging rights"). Other than that, I seldom have any reason to visit dragstrips, or dry lakes.

Norm

citcapp

I decided to do a complete disc braked conversion on the 57 olds. I will do a step by step process with photos on the proper thread soon. Look for it

Olds64

SWEET! Now you will be able to do an emergency stop when a small child or nun jumps out in front of you.

citcapp

Late update,

Took the 57 on a 40 first trip 5 weeks ago to Seattle and back round trip. Took the exit 2 miles from home to drop by the machihne shop that built my engine form, while at the stop light the temp started going up for the 180 it had been running at to about 220. The light changed to green and within a block it went back down to 180. Got to the machine shop, Lifted the hood and everyone came out to look at the build. Got lots of compliments. Asked about the temp change. They all looked it over and said not problem add a overflow cap the area beteeen the radiator and the grill to force the air through the radiator. No problem went home a did that the same day. Following weekend went to a rod run 8 miles round trip away total distance on engine 48 miles. On the way home overheating started again went up to 220 by the time I got home. Check the radiator not water showing. You know what I checked next of course the oil. Water in the oil. Still good oil pressure 60 lbs running 50 on idle. Called machine shop next day. Took in in the following day. They forgot to tighten down the ALU heads the third time after the Hot run blew both heat gaskets. All that needs rebuilding is being done at theri expense. will have back at home on Friday before I leave on vacation. Lucky to have a honest machine shop. Still smilling.

Oldsguy

That is very, very true. You are fortunate.

citcapp

Got a question, Jamsbo found a tri-power set up that is for a 400 on evel-bay that I think would would look great on the 455 in the 48 Olds. Will this set up fit on a 455. Maybe Joe knows


By the way I will be Tulsa on Wednesday morning. See you on Saturday I wll call ahead and let you know when I hit town.

88 coupe

Yes. 400, 425, and 455.

I was sure someone already answered this but, when I checked, no one had. Is this what you old guys have to live with?

And it's still Tri-Carb (as in Olds) not Tri-Power (as in Pontiac).

Norm

citcapp

Thanks Norm

Us Old guys have calling it tri-power since the flat head days when it was three single barrel. I will now call it Tri-Carb

Still young

citcapp

Got my 57 back from the machine shop after the blowen head gaskets. Not only did they fix the problem they re-jetted the carb and timed the engine as well. Is runs great. I also think I have found a posi unit, things are looking up. I will be hitting the road on Tuesday to pick up the 1948 Olds in Oklahoma. I will keep posting on my travels as I find an engine and 5 or 6 speed stick tranny in a new thread 1948 Olds build

citcapp

Well I did it, Got the pose unit for the 1957 Olds. $596.00 on Evil-BaY. Now I can lay the rubber down on both wheels