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Hi - You guys are the greatest! I have a 1970 442 455/365 Automatic. I am receiving conflicting information from some "Experts" regarding the CAMs that went into these engines. I'm being told that the 1970 455/365 and the 455 W-30 AT had different CAMs. And finally I'm also being told the 1970 442 Manual transmission had a completely different CAM with much higher lift.
Please explain.
Many thanks!
Last edited by tenorsax9; June 13th, 2016 at 09:29 PM.
Reason: add picture
Dear Tenorsax9,
1970 442 455/365 and 455/370 AT cams were to my understanding identical. The major change was the 4555/370 MT W30 which had a significantly higher lift cam. You can double check by clarifying the cams with The DR. Joe Padavano. Don't let the W30 mess you up. It's really simple. The W30 MT cam is the only cam that is different for the the 1970 442. Have fun with your sax!!!!!!!!!
Randy nails it. That chart comes straight from the factory service manual. EVERY SINGLE 442 with an automatic trans (INCLUDING the W-30 motors) got the same 285/287 degree cam (as did the W-33 and W-34 cars). The non-W manual trans 442s got a different cam, and the manual trans W-30s were the only ones to get the 328/328 cam. Note that this data applies to the 1970 model year ONLY. In 68-69, the AT and MT W-30s all got the 328/328 cam.
This is why power brakes and A/C were available on the AT W-30 cars starting with the 1970 model year - the "W-30" engine in those cars was really no different than the 455 in any other 442 with an automatic that year. How it allegedly made the same HP and torque as the manual trans motor is one of the great myths of our time.
Is the 1970 328/328 W-30 MT cam fairly radical and does it preclude power brakes? Did this operate with stock valve train components?
Where does the 308/308 cam fit in? Is it kind of a step down--less radical and could power brakes be run with it? Stock valve train here?
Should a guy consider these cam today or go with a modern grind?
Personally I do not want to use adjustable valve train and also want to go hydraulic--this rules out a lot of higher lift cams--my assumption is that this is where the longer duration lower lift cams of 70 W-30 came in. But with that said want fairly radical, great sound, 400-500 HP, and power brakes with no vacuum canister. Automatic to start with and moving to 4 speed when I find the parts. Thanks. Great thread!
Is the 1970 328/328 W-30 MT cam fairly radical and does it preclude power brakes?
Well, that might be why you couldn't get power brakes, A/C, or any other accessories that required engine vacuum to operate.
Did this operate with stock valve train components?
Yes.
Where does the 308/308 cam fit in? Is it kind of a step down--less radical and could power brakes be run with it? Stock valve train here?
The 308/308 cam was the W-30 cam for 1966-67 and was "demoted" to the W-31 for 68-70. Keep in mind that the smaller the displacement, the "bigger" the cam acts. And EVERY factory cam used "stock" valvetrain hardware.
Should a guy consider these cam today or go with a modern grind?
Personally I think there are better options today.
But with that said want fairly radical, great sound, 400-500 HP, WHICH ONE, 400 or 500? BIG difference and power brakes with no vacuum canister. Automatic to start with and moving to 4 speed when I find the parts. Thanks. Great thread!
To you and the op, I sell a lot of the Erson Hi Flow 1 cams for these types of applications. It's a more modern design but still easy on the valvetrain. Specs are 228/228@.050 with .504 lift on both.
Thanks!
A couple random points to add to the already good information in this thread:
1/ The '70 W-30 MT cam (328/328) was not high lift. At .475" it was just a few thousandths more lift than the other performance cams Olds used. It's the duration which makes it so radical.
2/ That chart in the Chassis Service Manual, since it was published in 1969, is missing one cam added later in the 1970 model year and used for manual trans Cutlasses.
3/ If you want to go old-school (ie, no modern-grind cam), the 308-deg cam used in the early W-30s, some '68 Hurst/Olds, and the W-31s is a nice compromise for a 455.
4/ All Olds cams used stock valvetrain components, but that's not to say they used the same components. The springs differed with application -- as they should with any cam you choose.
5/ The selection of W-30 cams got even more diverse in 1971. The manual trans cam got a little less radical, the automatic with A/C stayed the same, and the automatic without A/C got something in between (actually, it got the same cam as non-W30 manual 442s).
Personally, I can attest to the combo of the MT cam with an AT TH400. Highly recommended with the over the frame rail headers combo.
As long as you have a high-enough stall converter, yes. Any converter 2400 or below will have a very rough idle and lack a little off the line (if any 455 can be said to lack a little ....). The 328 cam will be much happier with a 3000+ converter. This will also make the carb and ignition tuning much more forgiving.
Remember, the w30 stick option was a package. The carb, distributor and rear axle ratio were required to have a streetable package. The time and testing to make those components work correctly and pass emissions should not be discarded. We Cam Doctored an original w30 stick cam and it was right on specs. Although the lift was the same as other olds engines, the change in duration and overlap changes the power curve. I'm sure there are much better cam designs today, but olds did ok for the time.
As long as you have a high-enough stall converter, yes. Any converter 2400 or below will have a very rough idle and lack a little off the line (if any 455 can be said to lack a little ....). The 328 cam will be much happier with a 3000+ converter. This will also make the carb and ignition tuning much more forgiving.
I don't speak the language you speak. However, since this car has 80,000 miles on it, with most of them in the current manual cam/auto trans configuration, I can bet that he had plenty of time to dial it in. As it is right now, the idle is really strange...it doesn't stall, but it almost sounds like it is going to at least until it warms up a minute. Eric showed me where to turn the screw some to adjust. That seemed to help. After a trip where I get it warmed up, the idle at park in the driveway seems to be a few hundred RPM higher. I'll get some video on soon in my mega thread to let everyone hear it.
June 13th, 2016, 08:57 PM
