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First off, I want to thank the W PA members here who offered their help to show up and go through the garage. Since the trip was over Thanksgiving, I didn't want to request their presence and take away from their family time so I didn't contact again to schedule a date. But I do appreciate the offers of help...
So the 442 is finally in my garage...took a long time I know. Rented a Uhaul trailer and hauled it with a Ram 2500 diesel. Hardly knew it was back there. Mountains are fun with an exhaust brake. Highly recommended. Good times!
Anyway, for those of you who missed some of the details before...here is a brief history of the car. My father in law owned the car since the early 70s and my wife even rode in the back seat as a baby. How cool is that??? He owned 3 Olds sports cars, a 69 H/O...and (2) 70 442 W30s. (At least we think they were both W30s...mostly due to the fact of the timeframe in which he owned them was not where people were cloning them for money.)
My mother in law informed me when I was there this last time that someone familiar with the cars told her that the car I have now was once a manual transmission. I could find no proof of that however when I looked for a hole for the clutch pedal there was none. I'm hoping to find the proper ID on the transmission with the VIN but haven't searched it yet. Regardless if the transmission is matching #s or not, I do believe the car is indeed a W30 and will need some help going through the verification process.
Let me know what pics you want. Be specific in location because I'm not too familiar with these parts and the numbers might be under a little grease or grime. I did look for the aluminum axle carrier and this one doesn't have it.
Here are some pics of it in my garage with some new wheels and tires. Gave up looking for the old 14's that would fit the 7.5 and 9 inch wide wheels he had on there. Hope you like the new 17".
Congrats on getting it home safely. Did you bring all the extra goodies that were in the garage?
The presence - or lack thereof - of a factory 4 speed hump will tell you a lot. You'll need to look for that from underneath or with the console removed.
I didn't bring many of the extras in the garage. Lots of SSI wheels, probably 4 complete sets are still there. I kept the SSIIs that were there as there was only one set. There are still a few transmissions around, although most of those are truck transmissions according to another mechanic who made a visit there a few weeks ago. Lots of tools and tool chests. Plenty of hiding places. Heard there is a set of rear end gears around somewhere from one of his old friends, but have been unable to locate.
There are a few boxes of stuff that I have to go through yet. Got an extra OAI air cleaner so that's a plus.
Also, on this one...maybe you missed it, I don't know if you saw or not...it has the setup from the 69 H/O as far as the shift console goes. It is not the factory original large console that you normally see with the 70 automatic. Unsure what the reasoning is on that. Do you know what side the code is on the transmission that I should look for? I plan on jacking it up tonight to take a peek.
Regarding the transmission, look on the right (passenger) side for a sheet-metal tag held in place with a single rivet in the center. It will be both stamped and painted with the code "OW" if it's originally from a W-30.
Then look at the left (driver) side for the VIN derivative stamping. It's located on a vertical flat spot just above the pan rail, somewhat behind the shift linkage.
If the last 6 digits of the VIN derivative match the last six digits of your car's VIN, then it's the original transmission for your car. And if the tag says "OW," then it proves the car is an original W-30. Of course, anything can be faked, but the history of this car makes that unlikely.
I've attached pictures of the two things you're looking for. These are random pics I downloaded from the internet.
Thanks Brian. Well, the grand finale has come. Here is what I came up with. Block stamp matches last digits of VIN, so it has the original block, I'm keeping that pic private, as it will reveal the full VIN when you combine it with a previous post I had.
However, as suspected...the transmission is out of another car, possibly his Hurst. I didn't bother to look for the vin on the case after revealing the OH tag. So I'm somewhat disappointed, but I also knew this was probably coming.
the pic with the F on the block is not the F on the heads you would be after for a true W30. If the build date code of the car is close to the build date of the F heads ( if it still has them) wonderful and positive; but if the E heads are within the range then more definitive its not. I would chk this since it does not have the original ow trans. Also Pull the distribitor and chk the numbers too.
the pic with the F on the block is not the F on the heads you would be after for a true W30. If the build date code of the car is close to the build date of the F heads ( if it still has them) wonderful and positive; but if the E heads are within the range then more definitive its not. I would chk this since it does not have the original ow trans. Also Pull the distribitor and chk the numbers too.
Not doing the distributor tonight, but here is the pic you are looking for:
super car and history for sure. With F heads i would put the distributor on hold and remove the drivers side seat back and hold you breath for that white broadcast card with W30 on it.
super car and history for sure. With F heads i would put the distributor on hold and remove the drivers side seat back and hold you breath for that white broadcast card with W30 on it.
Came up empty on this. Wedged a flashlight in after taking the bottom three screws out. Couldn't figure out how to get the locking top part off, but had a good view. Did the passenger side also just for good measure.
Also checked under the seats, climbed in the trunk and looked around everything and every hole I could, and under the dash and in and around the glove box. Nothing.
Congrats on being able to keep that car in your family!
Thanks Lonestar. Actually my mother in law offered to sell it to the previous owner before I bought it. They had interest but ultimately I don't think they wanted to spend the money for something that wasn't perfect.
She is sweet looking! Maybe the original transmission is still back in PA with the other parts. But you still have a matchign engine with F heads and other W30 parts. The broadcast car maybe under the carpet if you havent checked.
She is sweet looking! Maybe the original transmission is still back in PA with the other parts. But you still have a matchign engine with F heads and other W30 parts. The broadcast car maybe under the carpet if you havent checked.
Thanks! I'm not sure on the transmission, lots of hiding places around. I didn't check under the carpet. Where is it normally found there? F, R, D, P? I don't want to tear it up everywhere if I don't have to.
I bet you guys thought when I told you it was a PA car that it would be rusted beyond belief. There is some rust on the fenders by the doors. And the exhaust has some nice holes in it, but aside from that I'm surprised myself how good of shape it is in for being a car from PA.
A broadcast card could be anywhere in the interior. Under seats, seat backs, behind door panels, under the carpet, and under rear windshield package tray. But generally they are found under carpet or attached to a seat. Of course also you may get lucky and find a build sheet on top of the gas tank if its never been removed.
Pull the drivers side sill plate and look under the carpet in front of the seatbelt retractor. I have found 2 broadcast cards in that location and both were Lansing built like your W-30, one in a 69 Cutlass and one in my 70 F-85 W-31!
Congratulations..............you got a beauty there!
Looks like it is a real untouched "survivor" car, the paint/stripes look from your photo's to possibly be original........not many W-30 left in the unrestored condition that yours is in.
I would agree with the previous post, the transmission and the valve covers being from a '69 Hurst Olds. I'd be checking in PA to see if the original trans is still kicking around.
Thanks! I have mixed feelings about the car and the transmission. On one hand, I would like to have an OW transmission in it which would be a real hunting trip, but on the other hand...how many real W30s out there have had a Hurst Olds trans in them? I'm considering my options.
Any idea what the A02 is on the broadcast card? Does that refer to tinted windows? Maybe I'll pull the gas tank soon. Whether or not the car always was an auto transmission is getting to me. I'm thinking yes since there was no hole through the firewall for a clutch. Also I think I read somewhere here that the manual shift cars did not have power brakes.
Last edited by 70-442-W30; December 2nd, 2015 at 06:41 PM.
Glad you finally got it home. Great project! My advice get it running, and drive it a while before all the MAW's overtake you Congrats!!
Thanks Troy! Yes I was wondering if it was ever going to make it here. It was a good trip. You should have seen my wife driving it up out of the garage, up a gravel hill, and onto the paved sloped road for loading on the trailer. Had the tow straps on the rear frame and she did a great job steering. When we got it here in the driveway, it took me and another few guys to get it over the hump that uhaul puts on their trailers behind the front wheel. Once it started rolling, I thought she was going to take out the rear garage wall. But instead she just slammed on the brakes about 6 inches from the wall. Scared the crap outta me!
Thanks! I have mixed feelings about the car and the transmission. On one hand, I would like to have an OW transmission in it which would be a real hunting trip, but on the other hand...how many real W30s out there have had a Hurst Olds trans in them? I'm considering my options.
Any idea what the A02 is on the broadcast card? Does that refer to tinted windows? Maybe I'll pull the gas tank soon. Whether or not the car always was an auto transmission is getting to me. I'm thinking yes since there was no hole through the firewall for a clutch. Also I think I read somewhere here that the manual shift cars did not have power brakes.
I believe A02 is tint on the upper windshield area, & A01 is "soft ray" tinted glass on all windows..........if it's "soft ray" glass it will be etched on each of the pieces of glass.
You are correct that all manual trans cars (W-30) did not have power brakes.......you can easily tell if the car was a manual trans car by looking at the transmission hump area of the floor pan, the factory did what looks kind of a "hackish" job of cutting a section of the hump out in order to install the sheet metal piece that the stick's rubber boot is attached to.
I think you could easily sell or trade the '69 h/o stuff for the missing '70 W-30 pieces.........in my opinion, having the correct '70 OW trans & console, would be the smart choice (even if it isn't #'s matching to the car)
I believe A02 is tint on the upper windshield area, & A01 is "soft ray" tinted glass on all windows..........if it's "soft ray" glass it will be etched on each of the pieces of glass.
You are correct that all manual trans cars (W-30) did not have power brakes.......you can easily tell if the car was a manual trans car by looking at the transmission hump area of the floor pan, the factory did what looks kind of a "hackish" job of cutting a section of the hump out in order to install the sheet metal piece that the stick's rubber boot is attached to.
I think you could easily sell or trade the '69 h/o stuff for the missing '70 W-30 pieces.........in my opinion, having the correct '70 OW trans & console, would be the smart choice (even if it isn't #'s matching to the car)
Yes, it has power brakes...disc front, drum rear. I would like that other console in there. Not sure how hard it is to get one, but I've seen a few for sale. Probably not that hard since I don't think they are W-30 specific. However, the OW trans, do you have an idea on the market on those? What about the value of the OH trans in it?
Last edited by 70-442-W30; July 30th, 2016 at 05:20 PM.
Reason: not editing here, but I was reading back through this and was totally wrong on the power brakes - read my more updated thread
I'll be back there in 4 weeks. I might just pull the H/O transmission in it and set it aside. Then put a rebuilt TH400 in it just to get it going. The odds of it ever becoming full numbers matching are about the same as me finding a gold bar in the gas tank.
I'll be back there in 4 weeks. I might just pull the H/O transmission in it and set it aside. Then put a rebuilt TH400 in it just to get it going. The odds of it ever becoming full numbers matching are about the same as me finding a gold bar in the gas tank.
Don't be so sure. You just found a very small fragile hard to find piece of 45+ year old paperwork that just validated your car as a factory W-30. That in itself doubled or even tripled the value of your car! If you pull the carpet and find it was an original 4 speed, that once again will ad even more value th o the car! If it is an original auto, it will drop the value a few thousand if you do not have the original trans.
I think instead of messing further with the carpet, I will just remove the rear exhaust and gas tank and hope for the build sheet. The exhaust needs replacing anyway and would never work as is. Plus, as someone said on the power brakes, since it has them it is a factory automatic. Not sure of the 100% certainty to that statement (if there were any exceptions), but the build sheet will definitely verify.
Couple more things about your car. It still has the original Firewall stamps from when the body was lowered on the frame. (Yellow "M" and Blue "Z"). For sure a Rally Red car with "- -" special order paint on the trim tag and 73 73 on the broadcast card. You will need to decide whether to keep the aftermarket headers or go back to stock exhaust manifolds.
December 1st, 2015, 10:42 AM
