Blackpage

Gentlemen,

I may be purchasing a 1972 442 built in Freemont, CA. The seller is the second owner and never looked for the build sheet. I'm familiar with the typical places to check (top of gas tank, behind seats, under carpet). Any place else or more specific to Freemont cars?

Thanks in advance,

Lou

jaunty75

I've heard of them being nearly anywhere. There was no system as to where they were placed, if they were left in the car at all, as there was never any intention that they be part of the paperwork delivered to the customer.

Besides the places you mention, I've also heard of them being found up in the springs of the seats, in one of the doors, and up above the headliner. The point is, it could be almost anywhere, and it would be silly to take a car apart if your only purpose in doing so is to look for the build sheet. You might never find it.

If you have some other reason to drop the gas tank or pull up the carpet, like you're repairing or putting in a new tank or replacing the carpet, then by all means look for it while you go. Otherwise, content yourself to know that it might be in the car somewhere, and you might or might not find it one day.

Here's a thread going on right now where a fellow found the "Broadcast Sheet" up in the springs of one of the seats in his '64 Cutlass. It's the kind of thing where he'll have to tear it apart to take it out. That's not uncommon.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...et-photos.html


Another Cutlass owner on here, Cutlassgal, found the build sheet for her car up under the rear shelf, which is yet another place where it might be found. But she couldn't remove it completely as it tore while she was getting it out, so part of it is still in there and may never come out.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ild-sheet.html

rcorrigan5

I found the build sheet for my 1970 Fremont GTO above the gas tank in real good condition. But I looked above the gas tank of my 1969 Fremont 442 and found nothing. Other places I've heard that they might be: under the rear seat, behind the back panel of a bucket seat, behind a side panel, in the dash, and under the carpet. I've looked everywhere in my 442 except under the carpet.

Randy C.

Allan R

I just got a copy of the build sheet from a 1972 Cutlass S from a guy who's restoring it and was asking some questions. His was found on top of the gas tank. It's in amazing condition and very legible. It also turns out that the build sheet documents his 72 Cutlass S as a special paint car with a production bypass code listed on it.

20 samolians to whoever guesses what the color was. Hint: not an Olds A body color that year.

2blu442

I have several Fremont cars and over the years have had several parts car also from the Fremont plant. If the car hasn't been messed with there's a good chance you'll find some paperwork there, somewhere! I did find one above the gas tank on my 1970 442, but sadly it was just shreds where the ribs of the tank held it against the heavy tar paper stuff.

In addition to the places already mentioned I found one under the console and another behind the door panel. Then the most obscure place I found one was described in the following thread

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...eet-found.html

Good Luck! Being a 1972 it would be nice to have paperwork showing it came from the factory that way.


So Allan... my guess would be the Toronado Green that's kinda like emerald green! Since you said not an A-body color I'm guessing it's still an Olds color

John

orange442

Black?

Allan R

ding ding ding.... winner! Yes. For some unknown reason code 19 ebony black was not offered on the 72 Cutlass models, but was on B/C cars. Go figure.

Here ya go! Keep the change

orange442

Black was not available as a standard color on any GM A-body in 72, it was special order only. I had heard this in the past but my Dad and I bought a triple black 72 Monte Carlo factory BB 402 buckets/console car last year and I did some more research at that time to verify this. I also pulled the remnants of a build sheet from the back seat that said special paint right on it. I take personal checks, money orders, and rare Oldsmobile parts as payment!

vette442

My Fremont-built 1972 442 had two 8x11 build sheets in it, at least one of them being under the rear package tray by the rear window.

One of my Olds buddies who lived in the Bay area found build sheets in that location in quite a few Fremont-built 70-72 Supremes that he owned.

p.s. on the side topic in this thread- I've owned a '72 455 Supreme with code 19 Ebony Black on the cowl tag. It wasn't a standard color, but you could definitely order and get it.

Terry

Allan R

I knew it was not a standard A body color for Olds, but didn't realize it extended to the entire GM A body lineup. Any idea what happened to cause that?

The build sheet for the 72 I was talking about also specifies special paint and bypass code 2. On the build sheet the PNT box (79) specifies 19 lower 19 upper and on the lower part of the build sheet it says 'Paint Ebony Black' then gives the du pont color mix of 926-96459 (19)

An observation about the build sheet paint code order is it matches the way the code is stamped on the cowl tag. In addition to the LW / UP code there's also an ST and W, with the letters YWT-X directly under that. No idea what it means.

GAOldsman

Good stuff right there Al

Blackpage

The OLD:

If anybody remembers "the Watermelon", it went off to greener pastures today. Traded for an original 1972 Ram Air hood. Hood to arrive next week ready for paint. Needed to make room for .............

The NEW:

1972 442 Hardtop. U code, numbers matching 455 with title in hand. Super psyched. It's the One I've been waiting for. Needs some work but a great base to start with. This car is why I started this thread. Will be digging into it this weekend. Hopefully I'll find the build sheet.

A special shout out to Vette442. This car would never have ended up in my garage without his help.

watermelon.jpg

1972 442 arrival.jpg

72442.jpg

724423.jpg

sammy

Congrats.....watermelon was traded for a w25 hood.
What is the story with this car? Did the seller run out of cash? Any History on the car?Did the 72 455 come with G a heads?

Thanks,
Ted

11971four4two

Hey Lou
Good luck with THE NEW 72
Happy Motoring

GAOldsman

Nice score! I am partial to 72 U code cars

vette442

It was my pleasure to help. Glad it all worked out.

Terry

My442

The last 2 Fremont cars I have owned have had build sheets on top of the gas tank.

My 70 442 had an almost perfect build sheet, about 98%.

lemoldsnut

I had a 72 Cutlass and found it under the package tray. Fremont car.

Blackpage

Blackpage

Thanks for the kind words 1971four4two, GAOldsman & Vette442. Have a long way to go before she shows like your rides.

Allan R

Is that new 72 paint code 65?
If it's a Lansing car you will not find a build sheet, but may find some broadcast cards.

Can you post the VIN and pics of the cowl tag when you get a chance?

Blackpage

Here ya go Alan ! Tell me everything I need to know.

Allan R

First off it looks like you have either a special order or customer order car!

ST 72 - 1972 Model year production
3 - Oldsmobile division of GM
3687 - Cutlass S Holiday Sports Coupe. (your build sheet will confirm if it is truly a 442)
Z - Freemont CA production. Might find the build sheet on top of fuel tank.
090651 - Fisher body number. Not VIN related.
TR 947 - White Naugahyde interior
A51 - Strato Bucket seat
PNT - 65/65 lower and upper color Flame Orange
06B - Time Build sequence: second week of June 1972. Your build sheet or broadcast cards will have the actual dates.
398773 - Box 24 of the Build sheet cross reference from Fisher BW. This is the Dept Seq. number
050161 - Box 10 and Box 24 of the build sheet: sequencing reference for actual build date.

VIN
3 - Oldsmobile
G - Cutlass
87- Hardtop Sports Coupe (Cutlass S holiday sports coupe)
U - 455 engine (L75)
2 - 1972 Model year
Z - Freemont production
140255 - actual production sequence (serial number)

Blackpage

Allan R

Lou,
No, it has nothing to do with the color. 65 is a standard 1972 Olds color - nothing special about it.

The reason I said customer order is the extra stampings on the cowl tag. If you look at factory mass production you won't find those stampings. The only cars I've seen with them were either customer ordered/special ordered and Fisher put that info onto the body they shipped to the producing factory for cross references. Don't forget that prior to shipping a body, Fisher would set up all the special features/piercings etc for that specific car so it would wouldn't have any hiccups as it progressed down the assembly line.

Blackpage

I see. I didn't think it was a unique 1 of whatever. I was more concerned about it being a real deal 442 which it looks to be. Thanks for the input.

Allan R

Unfortunately the ONLY way you can verify the 72 is a real 442 is to find some documentation in the car; build sheet/broadcast card. It will have the W29 option listed. If the interior has been apart, possibly someone didn't pull out the broadcast cards.
For build sheet, most Freemont cars have them on top of gas tank, or under parcel shelf. Good luck with the search, hope you find one of those.

Maybe you could list some of the options the car has? Or take some pics of the interior?

wmachine

Allen you're getting carried away with your suppositions. I don't know what makes you think that is what they did, let alone why. If you care to offer proof of that, I'm listening. Fisher Body set up *every* car with "all the special features/piercings etc for that specific car so it would wouldn't have any hiccups as it progressed down the assembly line."
They "assembly line" did not look at the body tag to figure out what to put on a car. That was controlled by master broadcast sheets that were used on the assembly line.
What is on the body tag is info pertaining to body production, nothing more and nothing less.

Allan R

Kert, I have copies of build sheets and matching cowl tags for cars that owners have provided me in clear detail ( 1970-72 models only) showing the correlation I've stated. Since we're talking about a 72 Cutlass S here, I think I believe I have a sound basis for my comments. Every one of the Build sheets shows either a Customer Order and bypass codes, or Special Order request and bypass codes to be applied, in addition to the normal production parts that make up a car. I believe GM DID track specific bodies that were to be matched to production sequence/time build sequence as stated to ensure the build was done as requested.

I don't see these stampings on the vast majority of cars the factories churned out with standardized options that met demographic needs related to sales performance/requests from zones. Eg: FL orders get AC, not a rear window defogger or block heater, whereas a LOT of cars exported to Canada got Heater, rear defog, block heater but no AC. It's very reasonable to suggest GM wasn't dumb about knowing knowing their markets and what options sold well in certain areas is it?? So X number of cars with option ABCD, Y number of cars with option GHJK etc isn't a fishing expedition at all.

BTW, I never said Fisher 'didn't' set up every car for it's options so it wouldn't have hiccups. That's a no brainer. I merely stated 'It LOOKS LIKE' a customer ordered or special order and that was based on 'actual documentation' I have seen. I think that's a very reasonable 'supposition' and don't appreciate you categorically stating "you're getting carried away with your suppositions" without you having proof to the contrary.

At NO TIME in my post did I say I know for a fact that the numbers represent what GM or Fisher's thinking was at the time. I obviously wasn't there to validate it and neither were you or we'd be able to make the interpretive statements as categorically correct evidence without this kind of exchange. We'd both be right and share the same POV. My comments though have a basis of tangible evidence behind them, whereas I've seen nothing from you except some finger pointing.

Do you have something that categorically proves me wrong? Love to see it. But if you don't? You're getting carried away accusing me of getting carried away.

wmachine

I'm just guarding against truth decay. I'm pointing out to anyone else reading this that just because you say they did something for for some reason doesn't make it true. You're stating your ideas and suppositions as fact. You didn't even address what I said, rather commented about things I didn't say.
I'm not here to argue with you, and I won't. By all means, jump in and have the last word.

Allan R

Similarly I feel a responsibility to state to whomever is reading that just because you think otherwise doesn't make you right or your statements factual. You have offered nothing as evidence to refute my comments other than your opinion, which you apparently think is a basis of fact. So if your opinions are factual? So are mine, buddy. I could fill a book of things you 'didn't say' based on my perception of your attitude to this discussion. From my point of view, you seem to have no issues provoking me with things I say or haven't said.

What did I say that I qualified as 'fact'? My comments were prefaced with 'suggested' or 'I think' or 'I believe'. You need to learn what that means. So what is it I said 'they' did? I only suggested based on what documentation I've actually seen and offered what I think are logical conclusions. Can you say the same? I won't knowingly post info that I suspect is wrong. That's hardly any basis of you saying I'm stating facts when I clearly haven't offered it that way. Show me something that I've said here about this discussion related to the cowl numbers that you can PROVE is outright wrong and I'll retract it and openly apologize to you. You on the other hand have shown nothing constructive to this discussion with your 'allegations'.

Go back and re-read. I believe I did address your comments. BTW, your whole position is based on me having to prove something? I think you share equal responsibility to disprove or offer a reason why you're right. Otherwise, I have no choice but to conclude that all your comments are 'suppositions' being offered in fact when they may not be.

You said: I don't buy that in this case. Those stampings points its way to the build sheet, which in the case of the build sheets I've seen DO pertain to more than just the body. It's a traceable link to a complete build document. I think it's obvious GM neither had the time or resources to commit that feature to every cowl tag. But it would have been interesting if they had. Then the information about the stampings would be 'common' knowledge as much as what TR codes and PNT codes were. What a waste of time and hijack of a decent thread just arguing with you.

Blackpage

[QUOTE=Allan R;527175]Unfortunately the ONLY way you can verify the 72 is a real 442 is to find some documentation in the car; build sheet/broadcast card. It will have the W29 option listed. If the interior has been apart, possibly someone didn't pull out the broadcast cards.
For build sheet, most Freemont cars have them on top of gas tank, or under parcel shelf. Good luck with the search, hope you find one of those.

So far, nothing on the gas tank or under package tray. Didn't get a chance to take apart the seats.

Maybe you could list some of the options the car has?

Love to . L75 455, Turbo 400, 10 bolt posi rear (haven't fiqured the ratio yet), cutout rear bumper, rallye pack, center console, bucket seats, non Ram Air hood with louvers, boxed control arms, front sway bar, disk brakes, 442 grills .....................

Or take some pics of the interior?

http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Ro...09165974621113

Plenty of pictures there to keep you occupied for a while.

Allan R

The pics were very revealing. I think you have a ton of work ahead of you. Take this the right way - I think the heavy filler coats covered with primer will yield a lot of rust perforation when it's removed. I hope I'm wrong, but there's strong evidence on the right side of the deck lid by the downturn. A lot of the other rust is just surface, but looks like it's been there awhile. Hope you're getting the moldy stuff out asap and neturalizing anything left with bleach.

I'm leaning toward this car being a factory 442 if all the panels are original. The piercings on the fender and front hood are indicators of the W29 package. The hood on the car would be the standard Cutlass S hood (with Faux grills) and would have the piercings on the DS front edge for the Oldsmobile script. I believe it was placed there as a brand identifier simply because all the traditional spots for brand/model were used by the 442 emblems. The glove box emblem is correct with being 'Cutlass' and the door panel emblems have the correct Sports emblem.

You also have the factory 8 track there. Option code U57

Obviously not the factory carb. Does the car run?

When you're done with this car I bet it'll look fantastic!

Blackpage

Millionaire's plans on a blue collar budget. Won't happen overnight. Will be picking away at it. I'm attaching some pictures of what I have in mind for it. Like to get your opinion and from the board on staying with the original color combo of Flame Orange with white gut and stripes or go with black gut and stripes.

Allan R

Personally I like the black stripe and interior better. Good thing about that is the main parts that make that work are already that color: console, dash, kickpanels, steering column, inner A pillar trim, parcel shelf, seat belts etc. The seat backs and other visible trim parts can be easily dyed or painted black. New upholstery, carpets and headliner? Done deal and sharp looking IMO. Only thing I wouldn't put on is the rear deck wing (1971 and earlier option W35) only because they were never offered with 72 442s.

One thing about the windlaces on this car. What ever you do, don't lose the one for the rear window - it's not reproduced by anyone that I'm aware of. It's listed on ILT but they don't tell you it's only the one for CS. The windlaces can easily be dyed black.

You might be right with the roof, I'm not really in a position to say one way or another. I was just basing my comment on the very strong layer of coarsely sanded filler in some of the pics you have on photobucket.

I hear you on the authentication and ownership. The documentation only becomes important for buyers who INSIST on being able to validate the car or for someone making into a show car. From the sounds of it though, you're in it for the enjoyment - not to create a trailer queen! Best of both worlds; a great looking car and fun to drive. You have a great car that I'm sure others (including myself) only dream about finding.

You planning to start a build thread when you're ready to get at it?

Blackpage

[QUOTE=Allan R;527555]Personally I like the black stripe and interior better.

Me too. There is always the option of painting her a different color and keeping the white interior. That brings up a whole other debate... originality vs preference.

Good thing about that is the main parts that make that work are already that color: console, dash, kickpanels, steering column, inner A pillar trim, parcel shelf, seat belts etc. The seat backs and other visible trim parts can be easily dyed or painted black. New upholstery, carpets and headliner? Done deal and sharp looking IMO.

Car came with a new black carpet, still in the box. Headliner would be new. The upholstery is in surprisingly good shape. I may use them on my 71. I have another set of buckets that I could reupholster in black.

Only thing I wouldn't put on is the rear deck wing (1971 and earlier option W35) only because they were never offered with 72 442s.

I have a REAL nice original wing off a 69 Hurst that I was planning on using. Again...... originality vs preference. I have a lot of thinking to do and decisions to make.

One thing about the windlaces on this car. What ever you do, don't lose the one for the rear window - it's not reproduced by anyone that I'm aware of. It's listed on ILT but they don't tell you it's only the one for CS. The windlaces can easily be dyed black.

I have them. Thanks for the warning.

You might be right with the roof, I'm not really in a position to say one way or another. I was just basing my comment on the very strong layer of coarsely sanded filler in some of the pics you have on photobucket.

I hear ya.

I hear you on the authentication and ownership. The documentation only becomes important for buyers who INSIST on being able to validate the car or for someone making into a show car. From the sounds of it though, you're in it for the enjoyment - not to create a trailer queen!

No trailer queen here. I plan on driving the Begeezus out of her ! That may have to be reevaluated if I find a build sheet.

Best of both worlds; a great looking car and fun to drive. You have a great car that I'm sure others (including myself) only dream about finding.

Thanks Alan. I hope I don't come off as a braggard. Just really excited about the possibilities.

You planning to start a build thread when you're ready to get at it?

I haven't thought about it. Sure. Why not ?