W-43 The Olds That Never Was
October 19th, 2011, 05:12 PM
#1
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W-43 The Olds That Never Was
i know that olds made the w-43 and it was an all aluminum 455 DOHC hemi with 800hp@8,000rpm and i wanted to know if any of these blocks still exist and if they ever put one in a car
October 19th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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Im kind of interested in this too. Im sure if any were made it would only be like 3-5 and they most likely were destroyed after testing like so many other prototypes, but itd be cool to try to reproduce these. Im pretty sure they were 4-valve heads
October 19th, 2011, 05:49 PM
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i think the blocks and heads were iron. there was a couple on display at the 105 anniversary at Lansing. i can't remember where i seen them but i remember seeing two of them. i think one was at the R.E. Olds museum.
October 19th, 2011, 05:49 PM
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http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/th...hat-never-was/
So i guess there is a surviving example. Itd be amazing to use that to produce new aftermarket versions of this motor
So i guess there is a surviving example. Itd be amazing to use that to produce new aftermarket versions of this motor
October 19th, 2011, 06:03 PM
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Yeah i just read up on it. That link i posted had more useful info than i expected haha. Although after reading up on it it doesnt sound as interesting as it did before. The OW-43 hit 700hp at 7000RPM, sounds amazing, but they were using 12.2:1 compression. A 455 with modern Edelbrocks can most likely come near that number at 12.2:1. Of course you would want to beef up the bottom end as they did with the OW-43 but i feel like those numbers wouldnt be out of the question with a massive cam that emphasizes top-end and matches the compression
October 19th, 2011, 06:15 PM
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October 19th, 2011, 06:27 PM
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Back in the late 80's and early 90's I worked with an old-timer who was an Olds tech in the 60's & 70's. At that time I was in my teens and he was 67 so he was an old-timer to me 
He told me about these engines then, and not only did he see one one at a training center, but he knew a guy who got his hands on one or parts of... maybe this is it? 
He told me about these engines then, and not only did he see one one at a training center, but he knew a guy who got his hands on one or parts of... maybe this is it?
October 19th, 2011, 06:37 PM
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October 24th, 2011, 02:59 PM
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yeah i thought of seeing how much it would cost to have a 455 hemi block, heads and basically all the parts machined for me but i dont have that kind of money... if i did i'd have a hemi in my olds right now haha we can only keep dreaming
October 24th, 2011, 03:34 PM
#11
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I think if Edelbrock was interested they would have picked up on it already. The cost to R&D that would be killer. The history on the posted links shows this thing doesn't have much interest other than historical. It went from 65K to 19K to 10K. Wait another 3 years and it will be FREE to a good family. Doesn't help that there's only one head that goes with this. If you were a good engineer / gearhead working with a good CNC tech, you might be able to put something together out of this.
October 29th, 2011, 07:41 AM
#13
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Thanks for those pictures Jeff, although the twin turbo wasnt a hemi it was still very cool to see. i dream of one day opening up an old barn and seeing a 442 in there and opening up the hood to find that monster 455 dohc fuel injected engine in there... that would be the day
October 29th, 2011, 11:52 AM
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More extensive info can be found at Wild About Cars:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...d=997027862616
October 29th, 2011, 02:12 PM
#16
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The W43 is *not* a hemi.
The head chamber is not "hemispherical"
October 29th, 2011, 03:33 PM
#17
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Now please let's stop this old wives tale about the w43 being a hemi, and get with the facts.
October 29th, 2011, 04:21 PM
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October 29th, 2011, 05:23 PM
#20
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No, I won't because it isn't. Have you looked closely yourself? It is not spherically shaped. It has nothing to do with "where is it measured", which doesn't change shape when it is bolted to the block.
Now please let's stop this old wives tale about the w43 being a hemi, and get with the facts.
Now please let's stop this old wives tale about the w43 being a hemi, and get with the facts.
October 29th, 2011, 05:26 PM
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To me it depends on the pistons and the heads. If the heads are somewhat dome-ish and the pistons are meant to come out of the block and fit more snuggly into the head than a typical motor would then yes, i will call it a hemi. Since "hemi" is a generic term. Its like arguing music genres. The band may call it "black death metal gore core" but on your computer its just listed as "metal" because its easier to say and people actually know what youre talking about...
October 29th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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i am no expert but i think there was a reason Chrysler calls it hemispherical "hemi". here is a picture. i don't know how well it worked compared to the idea and theory behind the hemi combustion chamber but the Olds is a far cry from hemispherical.
October 29th, 2011, 05:43 PM
#23
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Cool pics! That would be neat to have one of those, I remember working on a boat that had dual 455 marine engines years ago. It had turbo chargers, don't remember the make of the "marine" engine.
October 29th, 2011, 06:29 PM
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To me it depends on the pistons and the heads. If the heads are somewhat dome-ish and the pistons are meant to come out of the block and fit more snuggly into the head than a typical motor would then yes, i will call it a hemi. Since "hemi" is a generic term. Its like arguing music genres. The band may call it "black death metal gore core" but on your computer its just listed as "metal" because its easier to say and people actually know what youre talking about...
And the W43 also has pent roof pistons, and is no way shape or form a a hemi. It would benefit you more to read the articles and look closely at the pictures rather than try to convince someone that knows better that "hemi" is a the generic term as you see it.
October 29th, 2011, 06:31 PM
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October 29th, 2011, 07:25 PM
#27
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No doubt that that is NOT a hemispheric combustion chamber.
For comparison, just look at '60s an '70s Porsche 911 or BMW motorcycle heads and pistons - round surfaces, not flat, no angles.
- Eric
For comparison, just look at '60s an '70s Porsche 911 or BMW motorcycle heads and pistons - round surfaces, not flat, no angles.
- Eric
October 30th, 2011, 07:02 AM
#28
There is no way to fit 4 valves in a hemispherical combustion chamber. All 4-valve engines since the 1919 French Ballot racing engine use a pent roof design (like a traditional hose roof). The simple reason for this is that in a hemi, side by side valves would be impossible - consider one half of a basketball and stick 4 pencils in it and notice that they would all be sitcking out at different angles. With two valve this is possible but not with 4.
The other thing to understand is that the Olds engine used race engine technology - that is common today on the Ford 4-valve street engines found in Mustangs and Shelbys. In fact, if you look at the port design and valve placement you would see a lot of simalarities - what makes this important is that Olds was building the pushrod version for the street 40 years ago, when this design was only found in exotic engines like Ferrari.
No one had a pushrod actuated 4-valve engine. The cammer was only intended for flow evaluation and was never intended for actual use. The reason for the 4-valve was low speed and high speed flow can be accomplished without a huge duration cam, making it an excellent street motor - the test engines were fitted into street cars - ran a 308/308 cam and made 550 Dyno HP, yet had a reasonable idle and could mount power brakes.
Two things killed this engine - the impending emissions and the insurance restrictions (oh, and squawking by Chevrolet). The death of John Deltz, Olds GM didn't help - as his replacement Stemple, was in love with low compression slow turning engines.
This engine was supposedly installed in a 71 SX that was a terror on Woodward, but after Beltz's death disappeared. You find it - you are a millionaire. If you look closely at the photos in the article Kurt cited, you will notice two significant things: 1) Each part had a casting number that was not preceded with an "E" ot "EA" (experimental application), which means this motor was slated for production, and 2), the carbon buildup on the heads, which would indicate this ran in a "mule" as you don't get that on a dyno motor.
"Back in the Day" this was a radical and adventurous move by Olds - scooping all brands. If the Muscle car era had continued - this would have been the to die for engine.
The other thing to understand is that the Olds engine used race engine technology - that is common today on the Ford 4-valve street engines found in Mustangs and Shelbys. In fact, if you look at the port design and valve placement you would see a lot of simalarities - what makes this important is that Olds was building the pushrod version for the street 40 years ago, when this design was only found in exotic engines like Ferrari.
No one had a pushrod actuated 4-valve engine. The cammer was only intended for flow evaluation and was never intended for actual use. The reason for the 4-valve was low speed and high speed flow can be accomplished without a huge duration cam, making it an excellent street motor - the test engines were fitted into street cars - ran a 308/308 cam and made 550 Dyno HP, yet had a reasonable idle and could mount power brakes.
Two things killed this engine - the impending emissions and the insurance restrictions (oh, and squawking by Chevrolet). The death of John Deltz, Olds GM didn't help - as his replacement Stemple, was in love with low compression slow turning engines.
This engine was supposedly installed in a 71 SX that was a terror on Woodward, but after Beltz's death disappeared. You find it - you are a millionaire. If you look closely at the photos in the article Kurt cited, you will notice two significant things: 1) Each part had a casting number that was not preceded with an "E" ot "EA" (experimental application), which means this motor was slated for production, and 2), the carbon buildup on the heads, which would indicate this ran in a "mule" as you don't get that on a dyno motor.
"Back in the Day" this was a radical and adventurous move by Olds - scooping all brands. If the Muscle car era had continued - this would have been the to die for engine.
Last edited by jrzybob442; October 30th, 2011 at 07:06 AM.
November 20th, 2011, 05:20 PM
#29
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There is no way to fit 4 valves in a hemispherical combustion chamber. All 4-valve engines since the 1919 French Ballot racing engine use a pent roof design (like a traditional hose roof). The simple reason for this is that in a hemi, side by side valves would be impossible - consider one half of a basketball and stick 4 pencils in it and notice that they would all be sitcking out at different angles. With two valve this is possible but not with 4.
The other thing to understand is that the Olds engine used race engine technology - that is common today on the Ford 4-valve street engines found in Mustangs and Shelbys. In fact, if you look at the port design and valve placement you would see a lot of simalarities - what makes this important is that Olds was building the pushrod version for the street 40 years ago, when this design was only found in exotic engines like Ferrari.
No one had a pushrod actuated 4-valve engine. The cammer was only intended for flow evaluation and was never intended for actual use. The reason for the 4-valve was low speed and high speed flow can be accomplished without a huge duration cam, making it an excellent street motor - the test engines were fitted into street cars - ran a 308/308 cam and made 550 Dyno HP, yet had a reasonable idle and could mount power brakes.
Two things killed this engine - the impending emissions and the insurance restrictions (oh, and squawking by Chevrolet). The death of John Deltz, Olds GM didn't help - as his replacement Stemple, was in love with low compression slow turning engines.
This engine was supposedly installed in a 71 SX that was a terror on Woodward, but after Beltz's death disappeared. You find it - you are a millionaire. If you look closely at the photos in the article Kurt cited, you will notice two significant things: 1) Each part had a casting number that was not preceded with an "E" ot "EA" (experimental application), which means this motor was slated for production, and 2), the carbon buildup on the heads, which would indicate this ran in a "mule" as you don't get that on a dyno motor.
"Back in the Day" this was a radical and adventurous move by Olds - scooping all brands. If the Muscle car era had continued - this would have been the to die for engine.
The other thing to understand is that the Olds engine used race engine technology - that is common today on the Ford 4-valve street engines found in Mustangs and Shelbys. In fact, if you look at the port design and valve placement you would see a lot of simalarities - what makes this important is that Olds was building the pushrod version for the street 40 years ago, when this design was only found in exotic engines like Ferrari.
No one had a pushrod actuated 4-valve engine. The cammer was only intended for flow evaluation and was never intended for actual use. The reason for the 4-valve was low speed and high speed flow can be accomplished without a huge duration cam, making it an excellent street motor - the test engines were fitted into street cars - ran a 308/308 cam and made 550 Dyno HP, yet had a reasonable idle and could mount power brakes.
Two things killed this engine - the impending emissions and the insurance restrictions (oh, and squawking by Chevrolet). The death of John Deltz, Olds GM didn't help - as his replacement Stemple, was in love with low compression slow turning engines.
This engine was supposedly installed in a 71 SX that was a terror on Woodward, but after Beltz's death disappeared. You find it - you are a millionaire. If you look closely at the photos in the article Kurt cited, you will notice two significant things: 1) Each part had a casting number that was not preceded with an "E" ot "EA" (experimental application), which means this motor was slated for production, and 2), the carbon buildup on the heads, which would indicate this ran in a "mule" as you don't get that on a dyno motor.
"Back in the Day" this was a radical and adventurous move by Olds - scooping all brands. If the Muscle car era had continued - this would have been the to die for engine.
Fred
January 1st, 2012, 11:46 AM
#32
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It says in this article that the W43 was installed in a car, but never tested. Maybe it was installed but never "officially tested".
http://www.carcraft.com/junkyardcraw.../photo_05.html
Video pictures of Olds experimental.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMcp...h_response_rev
http://www.carcraft.com/junkyardcraw.../photo_05.html
Video pictures of Olds experimental.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMcp...h_response_rev
January 1st, 2012, 01:44 PM
#33
You might want to read this article
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9970401234187
The Car Craft "Blog" was written in the prensent tense, by people who were not there - ostensibly from pictures in their photo archive. There are better articles out there -written "back in the day", which we will be posting on WAC: for example May 1971 Hot Rod and the Olds How To Hi-Performnce Engine Book and the 1984 Oldsmobile in Action Magazine (which I co-authored).
Stay Tuned, they will be on the site this month. Happy New Year everyone.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9970401234187
The Car Craft "Blog" was written in the prensent tense, by people who were not there - ostensibly from pictures in their photo archive. There are better articles out there -written "back in the day", which we will be posting on WAC: for example May 1971 Hot Rod and the Olds How To Hi-Performnce Engine Book and the 1984 Oldsmobile in Action Magazine (which I co-authored).
Stay Tuned, they will be on the site this month. Happy New Year everyone.
January 1st, 2012, 02:59 PM
#35
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January 1st, 2012, 03:35 PM
#36
I've posted two of the magazine articles from back in the day on www.wildaboutcars.com:
1984 Oldsmobile in Action:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990391350594.cgi?categoryid=9900402702835&acti on=viewad&itemid=9990402707514
May 1971 Hot Rod Magazine Experimental Engines:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?categoryid=9970401234187&acti on=viewad&itemid=9990402708730
All the material in the video is on Wild About Cars as downloadable PDFs. If you want the links to the individual pieces, email me at bg@wildaboutcars.com
1984 Oldsmobile in Action:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990391350594.cgi?categoryid=9900402702835&acti on=viewad&itemid=9990402707514
May 1971 Hot Rod Magazine Experimental Engines:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?categoryid=9970401234187&acti on=viewad&itemid=9990402708730
All the material in the video is on Wild About Cars as downloadable PDFs. If you want the links to the individual pieces, email me at bg@wildaboutcars.com
Last edited by jrzybob442; January 1st, 2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Additions
December 14th, 2016, 08:38 PM
#38
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I just found out about these engine's and i wonder what it would cost to produce them in all aluminum. 550 HP is plenty for me. I suspect the cost of making them would out weight the profits. Edelbrock would be the company to do it. I would love to have one myself.
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