70-442-W30

Ok, this may come as kind of bizarre to some of you, but here goes...

Since my intentions are to take the new to me 442 out on the road someday soon, I was wondering how this is going to go with safety and my kids. Every car I've ever owned had airbags, except my first one (Bless you $500 1984 Blue Buick Skylark with the nice cassette player and soft power steering!) I'm not so sure this one has anything but lap belts. (For those who don't know my backstory, I haven't yet picked up the car...it belonged to my father-in-law and I live a few states away.)

So my focus is now on how do I make this thing as safe as possible without taking away from the originality and doing something permanent. Or are my expectations a little too high?

I would love to have something that I felt comfortable with the kids in, airbags aside of course. haha I'm thinking seatbelt upgrades...or is that too far off base? Possibly this will this car be one that I just take around the block in the neighborhood with them in it?

1969w3155

Lap belts and shoulder belts, perhaps upgrade to retractable belts.

oldcutlass

I wonder how we all lived through our childhoods. It depends on how old the kids are and how good your driving habits are. Seat belts are a good upgrade, but you'll have to really work on a shoulder belt setup.

MDchanic

I'm still here, and lap belts were all we had when I was a kid.

Don't worry about it, and don't hit anything. There is no way to make this car even slightly as safe as a modern car.

If you want a car with airbags, buy a Hyundai.

- Eric

rustyroger

The best safety device in your car is right between your ears, at eye level.

Used properly it ensures that almost all journeys are safe and enjoyable.
You can't factor out the other idiots on the road, or the truck that decides to spill its load in front of you, but think ahead, buckle up, and ignore challenges to see if your car can outrun another on the highway.

Your car won't have the dynamics of a modern car to avoid an accident, make sure you drive within the cars limitations.

Roger.

oldsguybry

This is pretty sound advice .

Run to Rund

A wise old man who ran the machine shop I used in the 1970s said "there is no end to concern." As noted above, there is nothing practical you can do to equal the safety of modern cars and pickups. I drive my Olds sparingly and try to avoid traffic situations. Also, realize that the drag racing sanctioning bodies (NHRA, IHRA) require replacing seat and shoulder belts if aftermarket (which is required on the faster cars) to be replaced every two years. You might want to have a resto place re-web your 45 year old seat belts.

joe_padavano

My son grew up riding in my 70 W-30. His car seat was anchored in the back.

Some of that time was spent sideways, I should add...

The beauty of the belts in an older car is that since they are NOT inertia reel, there's no issue with getting the car seat anchored properly. I'm a big fan of the factory belts, as those are the ones tested with that particular car. Aftermarket retractable replacements always make me nervous, as they can't possibly have the same level of testing as the factory belts.

I also agree wholeheartedly with the posts above about using your brain instead of relying on technology. The push to incorporate more and more electronic safety equipment instead of mandating better driver training and more stringent licensing will not end well. Anyone who thinks software is infallible has never used a MicroSoft product.

Life has risks. Living your whole life in a bubble isn't really living.

MDchanic

Thank you.

- Eric

Bernhard

Some very good posts
I would like to add I'm glad I grew up with out all the driver aids, they just make for low skill drivers.
Make sure your car has modern tires from a brand name manufacture, this is one up grade that will make the car stop and handle better.
Has the car had a safety inspection brakes and suspension? This is important for all cars.
Like others have said cars are only as safe as the driver, if some else screws up big time there is not much you can do.
These cars are built very strong and have a full frame and crash bars in the door.

Enjoy

hookem horns

Lap belts and common sense as others say, and don't buy into the myth that big old cars are safe.

70-442-W30

This was exactly my concern. I'm quite certain of my own driving skills and would never push it with my kids in the vehicle. Probably not even with just me in the vehicle. As I've moved to a "different stage of life" as some call it, I try to keep my more hazardous days as memories that make me question, "How did I get away with that?"

I once remember testing the limits of many vehicles. Now I've turned my parenthood switch on and I am more safe than ever. Someone wants to pull a move on the highway, my goal is not to chase them, race them, or get them back by me showing them via my middle finger that they are #1...my goal is to keep them in front of me...because that is the power position.

The Bears....W-30....Polish Sausage....W-30...............

70-442-W30

Sorry, I had to do this:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...er-fans/n10094

joe_padavano

You're unlikely to be driving the car on a daily basis - more likely on nice weekends only. You're unlikely to be driving the car late at night, especially with your kids in it. Your exposure to risk under those conditions is INCREDIBLY small. The highest risk you have is that you'll be rear-ended by an idiot who was texting instead of driving.

The bottom line is that either you accept this small risk or get rid of the older car and buy a new Volvo.

Speaking of electronic aids breeding idiot drivers, just wait for the car-to-car technology. Yeah, I want my brakes and throttle connected to a wireless system that can override my commands. What could POSSIBLY go wrong...

I can say right now that I will never own a car with a touch screen, let alone any more advanced technology. I'm actually going the other way. I'm building my 72 as a daily driver so I can get rid of the 2002 DD that is starting to have electronics problems.

70-442-W30

I understand somewhat. I just purchased a new vehicle this week with radar cruise control. Seems extremely difficult to trust it. My foot was hovering over the brake the whole time.

This car was my father in laws. So getting rid of it won't be something I would do lightly even with the market on these sky high. If I wasn't able to get the seat belts that I felt were safe, then I just wouldn't drive it, except maybe in the 35 zone up to the local drive in restaurant. I think someone here made a good point about the belts being old. So, I might replace them. But I have yet to see the car in my garage. I'm sure I'll have other more pressing issues to take care of first.

Speaking of which...what is the length of a 1970 442 W-30? I was having trouble finding this. All sorts of specs on the internet but no dimensions. I have a small garage. Yeah, lucky me. I'm thinking around 200 inches???

oldcutlass

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...gth-width.html

joe_padavano

203.6" overall length. 76.8" wide. 52.9" high.

That info is from the 1971 Salesman's SPECS booklet, but 1970 is exactly the same.

70-442-W30

Thanks to both of you! Very helpful.

70-442-W30

So about the length and width of my Ford Flex. And the height if the top was chopped... Don't give me any ideas!

Fun71

When house shopping 10 years ago, I had to measure garages to verify they were large enough for the Cutlass. Sadly, many were too short. Nice houses but garages built for Hondas and Toyotas and we had a stable of American cars.

Bernhard

Funny I have that video
The 59 is not a 70 A body not even close.

Olds442redberet

Growing up in the seventies I remember riding around in these old cars, which much newer then, without even considering the seat belts and what they were designed to prevent. And while I wouldn't want to reverse any progress made in vehicle safety I also wouldn't want to over do it upgrading a classic car's passenger restraint system.
I drive my 1969 Cutlass regularly with my two children, ages eight and five. They sit in the back seat and usually I leave the car seat for the little one behind as well. I am conscience of the lack of safety features and I do keep it in mind while driving the car but I don't want my kids to miss out on the experience of riding around in a classic car with their old man. I always refrain from speeding or even goosing it while they are with me. I have actually found myself driving in the slow lane and I usually keep the car well under the posted speed limit, even when they aren't with me.

MDchanic

True. They made massive improvements in those ten years.

They also made massive improvements in the last 45.

- Eric

70-442-W30

Who knows...if this thing is worth anywhere near what I've seen them go for...it may never leave the garage. Sad but true. In 6 more weeks, I should have an idea of if it will stay in the garage like it has since 1982, or if it should go on the road. Numbers matching and verified W-30 makes me a little anxious.

Like I said, it's not me. It's the idiot drivers I see everywhere here. Lived in PA, OH, and NC. NC drivers are definitely the worst. Especially start of weekend or end of weekend.

70-442-W30

You are so right on that. What I wouldn't give for a nice 3 car garage with some depth. Who wants a spot where the door just barely closes?

oldcutlass

I think you worry too much, just maintain and enjoy it.

joe_padavano

The absolute worst thing you can do to a car is to let it sit. Mechanisms rust, rubber parts harden, seals deteriorate. Drive it or sell it. Contrary to what TV auctions try to tell you, musclecars are far from a great investment. I have much more respect for people who restore them, drive them, wear them out, and restore them again.

70-442-W30

Quite possibly so. Or the fact that I have another 1.5 months until I get to see this thing and the what-if scenarios are all I have to talk about with you guys right now.

I'm unsure what I'm getting myself into. Either it is a really great ride and it is something amazing, or it was a sentimental keep on my father in laws part. The bit that worries me is that he was an ASE certified mechanic, one of the best, and he just let it sit. But that is also the part that reassures me, because he was always busy working on everyone else's cars. Time will tell.

oldcutlass

If its in really good shape and your FIL took care of it, should be easy to bring back to life. There are people on here that were not very mechanically inclined that have successfully completed some really nice projects. Also if it means that much to your spouse... Happy wife, happy life.

Bernhard

Well said


I went to the NHRA div 6 points meet a few weeks back nothing but gray hair
the age out is in full swing.
Drive and enjoy the car unless the money will make a difference in your or your kids life.
The real world price of these cars has come down, I'm glad about this because it will return the cars to the ones that enjoy them for what they are.
When I'm done with my car it will have more in it than it is worth, the return on investment is the joy it gives me when driving it.
To me this is a hobby not a investment for pure enjoyment only.
Take the car out and see if it is a enjoyment or a burden that will guide you in what to do.
Good luck enjoy
There are many that would enjoy your predicament.

MDchanic

Just reaffirming Joe P's and Berhard's comments.

Use it and enjoy it. If you want art to sit under glass and appreciate, go buy something in an art gallery.

- Eric

jfb

I stated that I had a medical condition before and beat it through brains wits etc. I picked this up from traveling the us it was a risk but if it again crops up I have zero regrets and did it my way with regard for others of course and respect and dignity.

lazy394

These cars are no where near as safe as new ones.


Any car with a full chassis will be dangerous as the panels are attached to the frame and not integral and subsequently offer little resistance.


The idea is to understand this and drive accordingly, this is not a sure fire tip but driving around knowing Everything can stop and corner faster than you and a healthy dose of cautious will help.
On the upside most motorist are very respectful of old cars, and you are highly visible.

I hate that video .

70-442-W30

I'm letting these two sink in. Very pertinent advice. I think I just need to chill out some for the next few weeks and not overthink it.

As someone else said, there are many who wish to be in the position I'm in. Don't get me wrong, I've always wanted a sports car...and even thought this one might eventually come my way in 10 or 15 years...but I just wasn't prepared for it now. Cancer sucks!

On the flip side of that, I am paying for the car. It isn't something that is free to me. Just want everyone to know that this isn't the family of stock options and trust funds.

I have turned a wrench before. Did a transmission replacement in an Explorer 4WD. But that was following the factory service manual (thanks eBay) step by step. Listed socket sizes and everything. Super nice. The worst part was getting the small nuts on the flexplate. Prior to that I've done many brake jobs, a few ball joints, side glass replacement, etc. Nothing major and definitely nothing from the 70s. So I guess I am a little intimidated on how this might go. Because there is the potential that this car is very valuable. But, I should refrain from some of this concern until I verify that.

MDchanic

Exactly.



Don't worry about it - if you did that, you'll have no problem with any of this.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Wow! That is a completely uninformed and incorrect statement. I'll take this opportunity to point out that NASCAR cars (and most race cars) are full frame with non-structural panels. I'll take one of those in a crash any day.

This issue isn't frame vs no frame. The issue is the design for energy absorption vs. transmitting the crash forces directly to the passengers. (I'll point out this is why the 1971-72 Cutlass front fenders have the "dimples" and the 1970 fenders do not.) This can be done with either full frame or unibody construction techniques. Obviously newer cars have the benefit of far more advanced computer analysis techniques during structural design as well as much more crash testing to comply with federal requirements. Most newer trucks and large SUVs are still body-on-frame, and they comply with the same crash standards as unibody cars.

Sorry, but your statement demonstrates a lack of knowledge of mechanical engineering.

BILL DEMMER

Airbags are for sissies. What's a seatbelt?
"...Take a f*cking chance, bunch of g*ddamn pu$$ies!..." -George Carlin

bill

Bernhard

Well said

It is true that modern cars are designed to fold and even the engine/trans assembly are dropped down upon impact.
It dose not take much to wright a new car off due to the safety structure.
Once the structure has been damaged it is very difficult to return the car back to pre- impact condition,meaning that the next time the car is hit it will crash/protect/fold as the factory intended.
A lot of GM A body's were in accidents and protected the occupants,these were not minor fender benders.
If you look at the 59 window pillars this will give you a idea as to one reason why it failed so dramatically. Note lack of window pillar
Also look at the frame design of the 59 for another reason in the dramatic failure.
No head rest
no seat belt
non collapsing steering wheel ???

BlackGold

That's easy: All the guys who did not live through their childhood aren't here to talk about it.

In addition to using your brain and simply paying attention, one of the biggest safety improvements you can make is to install great tires. I'm not talking about making sure they have plenty of tread left. I'm talking about high-performance, speed rated tires with lots of stick-um. Accident avoidance gets a lot easier with good tires. Upgrade your car's handling with new bushings and racing shocks for even more safety.

70cutty

When I was redoing my interior, I didnt install the seat belts. I only left the rear ones there, in case kids wanna ride. I like it better that way.

To the OP, honestly this car or anything classic is not for you.