4speedBench

Were the spare tires for '68 442's mounted on SS1 rims (or whatever the car was optioned with) or basic steel rims? Secondly, are they mounted face up or face down. I have seen all versions at car shows???

Thanks

rcorrigan5

If the car was ordered with steel wheels, the spare was a steel wheel. If the car was ordered with super stock wheels, the spare was a super stock wheel. In either case, the spare is placed in the trunk with its outer side up.

SSI wheels were not officially offered as an option in '68. You could get steel wheels with a host of different hub caps, or you could get the SSII wheel. I say SSI wheels were not officially offered in '68 (they were in '66, '67 and '69), but the '68 Cutlass/442 assembly manual specifically shows the SSI wheel in manual section 10, page 124, as what one might consider an "amendment" to the '68 assembly manual; the page is dated 11/1/67. One could speculate that SSI wheels became available again for '68 models around 11/1/67 (2.5 months after the start of the '68 production year), but that's all it is - speculation. There is no other documentation, and no option code, to indicate SSIs were offered for the '68 model year.

Different GM makes stored their spare tires differently. For instance, I have a '70 GTO with Rally II rims. The spare is also a Rally II, but store in the trunk upside down. That might be the source of some of the confusion. The 442 spare tires were stored outside up.

If you don't have one already, I highly recommend buying a '68 Cutlass/442 assembly manual. They can be had for around $25 and they are a wealth of information.

Randy C.

Bluevista

Don't you have a jack and spare tire stowage instruction sticker under your trunk lid??
There should be a Jacking instruction sticker too.

Point out the illustration on the sticker to the guys with the upside down spares at car shows.

Jamesbo

I'm still pondering this one.

Perhaps Wmachine knows.

68 have only one trunk sticker avaliable and I am not sure which wheel it's for.

I THINK

For 69's If the car had rallye wheels the spare is a rallye.There are two different spare tire trunk stickers. One for the steel wheels and one for the rallye wheels. [According to Fusicks] The steel wheel faces down and has the threaded tie down holder with the large wing nut. The rally wheel faces up [with the center cap on ]and has a smaller nut The wing nut won't work with the center cap on.

The other question I've always had is, Are you spose to carry a wrench in the trunk to get the smaller nut off.

wmachine

There are definitely 2 different stowages (try to get *that* past spell-check!): Rallyes (SSI and SSII are done the same) and steel wheels. I don't recall which way is up for the steel wheel. Randy, I presume you confirmed outside up with the PIM? If so, the Fusick sticker is wrong. I remember having spares outside down then the jack base then the wing nut. But what I remember about that doesn't matter.
Yes, the SS wheels use the smaller nut and the steels use the wings. Steels stow the handle under the tire and SS handles go into clips rearward of the tire.
JB, I don't think carrying a wrench for the smaller nuts (you mean the cap, right?) is an issue. If you put the tire on as a spare, you just leave the cap off while you repair the capped wheel's tire. If you're putting it into rotation, you're probably at a location with wrenches.

Jamesbo

"You mean cap, right?"

Thanks W

But No, I didn't mean the cap nut[s]. I meant the large nut used with SS II on the threaded hold down "L shaped hook/bracket that goes through the lug holes in the wheel.

When I tighten it down tight enough to keep the tire secure, It takes a wrench to get it tight and to loosen it..

66400

With the SS wheel options the lug wrench is stored on the upper right side of the trunk opening in two spring clip holders.

Henry

66400

The spare SS wheels did come equipped with a center cap.

Henry

Jamesbo

Thanks Henry,

What I am trying to describe is the nut that holds down the tire. The lug wrench isn't deep enough to get it off.

66400

The lug wrench is used for removing the spare hold down nut, perhaps the stud is too long.

Henry

Jamesbo

Thanks,

Yeah, That's a posibility.

Run to Rund

The Nov 72 issue of GMPD catalog shows SS I wheels for 66-9 and a footnote says 68 type 1. 68 type 2 is SS II.

4speedBench

Man, thanks for all the responses...it appears waht I thought was a stupid question, created a fair amount of dialogue. This now makes sense for my car. Someone over the years placed the SS1 spare upside down and placed a wing nut instead of the nut described above. Therefore, it is easier to tighten but I have an incorrect amount of shaft remaining which got me thinking it was not correct. The carshows just confused me as I saw every imaginable combo. I do have a service manual and frankly didn't even think to check there!

BTW, the car has always had SS1's per owner history and it was sold on 12/67...but it was an "ordered" car.

Thanks

Jamesbo

4 sppedbench,

Don't feel bad I only had mine wrong for about 35 years.

As far as I know there is only one length of shaft for the wing nut or the other nut.

wmachine

I wonder. My '67 has a "too long" stud too. Can't be 100% certain that it is original, but I believe it is. (Pic was taken the day I got it in 2002)

wmachine

I'm reasonably sure if the car came with them, they were a dealer installation.
I believe this happened countless times in 1968, and is probably one of the reasons they were back in 1969.
Being an "ordered car" really has nothing to do with it. If that is what he wanted, the dealer could very easily accommodated him.

Jamesbo

Thanks W

Well I'm fairly certain mine is origonal also. Mine must have gotten some "Eztenze" or sump'in cause the lug wrench definitely won't work.

4speedBench

Interesting about the wheels being "dealer installed" as I know orig owner had an antagonistic relationship with dealer...even paid in full with $100 bills just to irritate him??

Jamesbro I'll measure length of my J strap when I get a chance and see what that adds to discussion..or not?

wmachine

I can't say that the Fusicks tag shows the steel wheel outside down, it doesn't look clear to me. But the tags in my '66 and '67 are both the same and both came with SSIs and the tags show the steel wheel stowage and it appears that the wheel is outside down. BUT the all of the parts book illustrations, the Chassis Service Manuals, and the PIMs show ALL wheels stowed outside up.

Apparently there were not special SSI stowage trunk tags for '66 and '67.

But here is what is really weird: the '67 PIM show 2 different hold down stud for the SSI stowage. One 442s and one for all other F85. (The '69 PIM shows just one, and it is the same as the '67 non-442 one.)
Why would the 442 one be different?
Come on Henry, help me here!!

rcorrigan5

I'm a little late on responding to comments made so I'm just going to go through them one by one.

Per above, I'm pretty sure the SS wheels came with the center cap already attached. The picture in the PIM shows it as attached. Common sense wise, it would be a royal pain to have to carry an extra wrench to take the center cap off the flat and put it on the spare. On the other hand, my '70 GTO Rally II wheel spare doesn't have the center cap. It's a simple snap-on, pull-off process for it.

Randy C.

rcorrigan5

-------------------
The trunk sticker for my '68 shows a steel wheel spare - it's a Fusick sticker. I took a picture of my old sticker before I took it off, primarily for placement purposes. Unfortunately, that old sticker was faded to white - you couldn't see a thing on it at all. From the appearance of the Fusick sticker, it looks like the steel wheel spare is mounted inner side up. However, the PIM (Section 10 page 115) definitely shows the steel wheel as being mounted in the trunk outer side up.

Randy C.

rcorrigan5

-------------------------
The '68 PIM does not show any difference in the J-bolt in steel wheels vs super stock wheels. They give one stock number - 389031 - for that bolt and, oddly enough, it applies only to the 4400 series.

I'm also speculating that the factory might have meant for the nut used on the J-bolt to secure super stock spare to be just hand-tightened, as my J-bolt is also way too long for the lug wrench to reach the nut. I tried hand-tightening on my '69 and that spare tire rattled around all over the place. I just carry and extra wrench to snug it down so it won't make noise.

W Machine and I have had discussions about the SSI wheel on '68 models. I highly suspect some people were disappointed that Olds dropped the SSI for '68 and someone, somewhere decided to get that ball rolling again. It appears that the SSI page in the PIM was not originally there, as it is dated 2.5 months after the beginning of the production year. As W Machine stated, SSIs were not a listed option at any time during the '68 production year, but it would have been real easy for the dealership to provide SSIs if the purchaser wanted them. My '68 came originally with wire wheel covers. When my dad bought the car, the dealership took off the wire wheel covers and installed the PO1 covers (dad was going to chrome reverse wheels anyway!). I've always liked the SSI look - that's why they are on my car now. If anyone were to ask, I would just say they were "dealer installed"!

Randy C.

Randy C.

66400

But here is what is really weird: the '67 PIM show 2 different hold down stud for the SSI stowage. One 442s and one for all other F85. (The '69 PIM shows just one, and it is the same as the '67 non-442 one.)
Why would the 442 one be different?
Come on Henry, help me here!![/quote]


Here's a guess and just a guess, standard tire size for '67 F-85's would be 7.75/14" , while the 442 was available with F70/14" Wide Ovals. The wider tire would sit higher off the trunk floor requirering a longer hold down bolt.

Henry

wmachine

Here's a guess and just a guess, standard tire size for '67 F-85's would be 7.75/14" , while the 442 was available with F70/14" Wide Ovals. The wider tire would sit higher off the trunk floor requirering a longer hold down bolt.

Henry[/QUOTE]

Well, that's better than what I could come up with, which was nothing!

But I don't think that is it, because the non-442 part number is the same for '69 (sorry I don't have that part number with me right now), which would mean the "shorter one" carried over to subsequent years. I'll have to see what the parts books tell us.

Jamesbo

X2 Randy,

That's where I am. Hand tighten ain't enough

Garbled

Great post guys.

I am contemplating restoring my trunk and all this information is very useful.

By any chance does anyone have a picture of their trunk showing the locations for installing the spare hold down bracket and the jack brackets? Mine are missing and something showing me the locations would be very helpful!

66400

But I don't think that is it, because the non-442 part number is the same for '69 (sorry I don't have that part number with me right now), which would mean the "shorter one" carried over to subsequent years. I'll have to see what the parts books tell us.[/quote]

67 and 69 trunk pans are not the same which may cause a difference in the mounting height.

Also standard equipment for the 67 F85/Cutlass series used a 5"x14" wheels, while the 442 had 6"x14" wheels.

Henry

Jamesbo

There are 2 clips on the right [passanger] side of the trunk [just to the right of the trunk catch] to hold the tire iron, on angle iron towards the rear seat to hold the end of the jack and one to hold the J bolt. When it gets warmer I can take some pics fer ya

rcorrigan5

[quote=rcorrigan5;139106]-------------------------
The '68 PIM does not show any difference in the J-bolt in steel wheels vs super stock wheels. They give one stock number - 389031 - for that bolt and, oddly enough, it applies only to the 4400 series......
-------------------------
The part number for the "other" J-bolt is 389030. I'm guessing the 030 is shorter than the 031?

I really need to get a digital camera so I can take some decent pictures. I'm still working with 35mm and, somewhere around this house, still exists an old 110 with some film in it.

Randy C.

4speedBench

I was about to stick with the theory above that SS1 wheels may have been swapped out at the dealer at customer request. Then I thought I wounder if it shows on my original window sticker. Sure enough it DOES! An $88.00 option for 14" Super Stock Wheels. So this thread solved my spare tire question and hopefully this documentation is helpful on the '68 rim question.

wmachine

No, it doesn't solve it the way you think it does. In 1968 the P05 option for Super Stock wheels is for the SSII wheels. That is well documented.
Curious, when was your car built?

4speedBench

Hmmm. Well, I'd be interested in looking through the "well documented" info you reference for my own edification. Was there a thread that covered much of it? Given the history I know on the car I frankly believe it is more plausible that the factory accomodated a dealer/customer request (especially back then) than the dealer going the "extra mile" and possible expense to swap the wheels (all 5 of them)?

As for my build date it is the 3rd week of December 1967. The Unit number is 220017, not sure if that bolsters the early build much, but the last five digits caught my eye.

rcorrigan5

4speedBench, that sure is interesting news about the SSIs coming on your car when it was new. The build date of your car is consistent with the SSI page dated 11/1/67 being added to the '68 PIM after the start of the production year. And it wouldn't make sense to me that the dealership would order SSII wheels, just to swap them out at the dealership for SSI wheels. I would think that, if there was a swap of wheels at the dealership, the car would come with steel wheels. I'm assuming you have drum brakes as well. Are there any dates stamped on the inside rims of your SSI wheels?

It makes me wonder again if the factory decided to informally use the option code "PO5" to mean either SSI or SSII, depending upon what the customer wanted.

wmachine

I'll be happy to share the info with you. Please email me (wmachine@shubes.net) and I'll send you scans and details of what I can't scan.
I don't believe there are any earlier threads detailing this.

The reason I asked your build date is that I can also show you documents showing availability of only the one SS wheel that is dated well past your build date.

There is no way the factory would put the SSIs on the car because the factory *didn't have them* to put on! Yes, it is not only quite possible *and* quite plausible *and* quite easy for the dealer to replace all five wheels. Much easier than adding, say, air conditioning, and they did do that! It was not at all unusual for dealers to make wheel changes. I am quite certain that there were *lots* of dealer installed SS1s in 1968 because they were so popular. Because of this, there are many more than you in the Olds community that don't know that they weren't a factory option in '68.
And quite frankly, this is the type of thing I spend a lot of time researching, because it is so obscure.

wmachine

You're making the assumption that the car was ordered by the buyer. It is even more likely it was taken from "stock". Doesn't really make a lot of difference even if they are SSII as far as cost, ease, etc.
Edit: Sorry Randy, I see 4SP does say it was "ordered", but regardless, without the knowing the exact sequence of events.........
4SP, do you have any other docs? Like invoice or order form?
Nice window sticker BTW!

It was definitely not informal use at the factory: In 1968 P05 was the option code for SSII wheels. In '69, P05 was again used for the SSI and N66 was used for SSIIs.

Jamesbo

Garbled,

Here some trunk pic fer ya. Sorry, they didn't turn out better. The end of tape was at the trunk catch.

4speedBench

Well Wmachine & Rc this is certainly interesting. You guys spend more time researching than I but I remain skeptical. P05 as you know was an option in 67 so I tend to agree Rc that they may have generically used the term Super Stock wheel which was intended for SSll in '68 but if the customer wanted SSls I doubt any difference in code would show. Much like the Mopar world had when they switched from magnum 500 wheels to ralley wheel in late 69-70 switch over, some cars show the magnum 500 code when the car came with ralley whls. Also, if the factory did not have the wheels how would the dealer get them? As I mentioned earlier, the orig owner and dealer had a testy relationship, can't imagine him waiting on the change??

Furthermore, the original owner told me he did order the car and given it's odd combo I have no reason to doubt him. Now, I never probed him on the wheels since I never knew all of this ...he has since passed away.

BTW, I looked at the spare for dates/markings. Only thing I could find was a "6" or "9" stamp and another stamped circle with what looks like a "7" in it?? Both markings are on the lug area (backside obviously).

cutlassgal

Jamesbo.... you need to make this your next project! Some black paint would make that hold down thing-a-ma-jiggy look real purdy!!!

wmachine

I think you will see this more clearly when I send you the documentation. The dealers and factory did not go by "terms" and descriptions. They went by codes. And codes meant speciific things for specific years. A different wheel is definitely a different code. And though codes *usually* mean the same thing year to year, that is far from an absolute, as there are many example of a code meaning something different one year to the next.
The codes are clearly defined each year:
1966 and 67: P05 = SSI
1968 P05 = SSII
1969 P05 = SSI
1969 N66 = SSII

Jamesbo

Sandy,

I'm terribly sorry, but I can only follow one ladies directions at a time.
And my Super Model has my plate pretty full. [I'm a one plate juggler]

BTW It's an ole pic. It's done done [in the vernacular] and flipped over w/o the wingnut.

Unfotunatlely, I kinda [as usual] went over board and have cornered the SE market on jack/lug wrenches and stands that are all painted and reconditioned. [with the proper decals of course.]

You do have the correct decal on your jack hook don't you? It could mean the diff twix winning a trophy or not.

See Sandy
See Sandy run
See Sandy run through the snow
See Sandy take off her new car cover

See Sandy dig
See Sandy dig thorugh Fusick's Catalog