BFitz

I think I want to make my 72 cutlass supreme convertible a 442 tribute. Here are some photos: http://72cutlass.com

My plan is decals, grill first. Hood later in the year then swapping out the 350 for a 455 in the next two years. I have read 442.com and wikipedia and according to them the logo on the glove box for this year kept it's Cutlass Supreme and did not have a 442. Can anyone confirm? I also have to decide when to change the trunk deck. I really like the long Oldsmobile spelled out but know I need to goto the 442 instead.

Any opinions or thoughts are very welcome.

PS- I guess I have to do the steering wheel too...

w-30dreamin

Nice car!

I do know the S type hardtop body style did have Cutlass on the glove box door. So I'll guess the Supreme would have it's respective emblem. In 72,442 was an option not it's own model as in previous years.

Not all 442's had the sport steering wheel,I do see 442's with the standard type wheel.

A 1972 442 could have the standard 350 or optional 455.

If you do go the 455 route don't forget about the rear frame braces and front fender braces exclusive to 455 cars.
442's also had boxed lower control arms with sway bar in the rear.

BFitz

@w-30dreamin
Thanks. Seeing the action at Barrett-Jackson and learning that 442 was an upgrade option this year got me in this mode. I just replaced the springs and bought heavy duty which I read was also part of the upgrade options this year. Here is the opinion from 442 dot com which appears to have been authored by some folks who use this site too:

"Here's another opinion on this subject. In '72 and IMOO (in my own opinion) I don't believe there are any fake 442's, only Cutlasses with the 442 options added to them. Unless you consider a real 442 something that the factory put out, however many of the 442 options in '72 were dealer installed on regular Cutlass S models. Actually, the 442 model was dropped in '71. 1971 was the last year that Olds actually made a 442 model. In 1972 the 442 was just an option. So to recap if you see a '72 442, it's really a Cutlass S with the 442 option added, not a true 442 model car. You would actually refer to it as a Cutlass S with the 442 option. Which in most cases consisted of a suspension and stripe package. Other options were the OAI hood, 442 rear cut bumper."

droptopron

Is your car the one in the link or the one in your profile pic?

BFitz

@DropTopRon
Both! I bought it "boroque gold" (aka crap brown) and painted it viking blue with the stripes. The stripes are actually painted and not decals.

69HO43

BFD. If it didn't come from the factory that way, it's still a 442 clone, or the lame "tribute" moniker that is overused. IMO of course.

That would equate the entire 442 package on par with a set of optional floor mats. It's a technicality of a poser to weakly and ineptly attempt to justify a clone, nothing more. Does that mean if I take a 69 442 and add a "Hurst/Olds" W46 option package to it it's not a fake H/O? How many of you would go along with that?

But if you want to get super-technical, then the Cutlass body numbered 69 442s and Hurst/Oldses were also technically Cutlasses with the W29 options on them. Build sheet says so. Just look in the options RPO list on a 69 442 build sheet and see if you don't find W29.

So IMO, that opinion is horse-hockey.

With all that said-- it's your car, do what makes you happy. But if you do decide to go ahead with it, make sure you do it correctly and not half-assed like many who only think they know what their doing try to do.

boondocker

Bfitz, go for it. I'm building up a Cutlass S from a '72 W29 (junked the body) using all the W29 parts as well as the S engine/trans and body. It was a 442 appearance package with mild suspension upgrade, this is what I found on mine;
- boxed control arms (sold and replaced with Hotchkis)
- anti-sway bars
- quadrajet
- 442 front grills
- hood with faux chrome intakes
- W29 striping
- console with stick
- bucket seats
- sport steering wheel
- chrome dash surround
- remote mirror/ dual mirrors (option I believe)
- air conditioning (option I believe)
- 14" sport wheels
- dual exhaust (w/o headers)
- 8 track w/ am/fm (option I believe)

Have fun with your build whether it's authentic or not.

69HO43

^^^
This

BFitz

Thanks all. I am going forward with decals and grille and will do hood down the road. I love authenticity and heavily considered selling and trading up. But every time one of my kids is standing in the back seat with cleats on or I let them dive in over the side (they love that!) I know I would be uptight if this thing was a museum piece. Something to be said for a driver. 75 in Scottsdale today, put about 10 miles on her...

Allan R

You have a nice looking car there. Seems like not too many people like Baroque Gold. Cross between army olive and metalic gold. Nice choice on the viking blue. Its a popular color and shows very well with white interior.

I'd be tempted just to leave it as is. If you are looking for the extra oomph of a 455? Just build one and drop it in.

Don't have to change any emblems. 72 was not really a 'performance' year for the 442 unless you got a W30 or ordered a Cutlass with a 455.

You read correctly that the glovebox emblems reflect the nameplate of the car.

re: trunk letters? Leave them on and don't worry about the 442 emblems. If you do elect to change them though, just weld the holes shut and drill new ones for the 442 emblems. The 442 emblems are held in place with barrel nuts.

75° today in Scottdale? Now you're just rubbing it in. Hardly gets that warm up here on a summer day! Glad you could get some road time in.

Jeff's Classics

Question...should a 350 powered '72 442 have the rear frame braces from the factory? Mine has the boxed lower control arms and sway bar but I can't see the rear frame braces.
Thanks,
Jeff

Allan R

No. They were for the 455 cars. Having said that, I did install a set of body braces on my 350 72 when I changed the rear suspension to FE2 and gears to 3.42s

The body braces connect to the front bolt of the rear lower control arms and the bolts for the upper control arm coming through the rear cross frame.

cdrod

Allan:
Did you notice a differences in handling or performance after installing the rear control arm braces? I know these will stiffen the frame but how does that affect driving feel? Just curious.
Rodney

Allan R

Rodney, I installed them last fall just before it snowed. Haven't driven it yet but I expect it will be a bit stiffer. That's ok because the car was riding fairly soft and didn't really handle the way I wanted. Looking forward to seeing how it handles this Spring/Summer.

Jeff's Classics

Hi Rodney,
Don't mean to hijack Allan's response, but I installed the control arm braces, boxed control arms, and rear sway bar on my '68 GTO. These parts are the same as those used on the 442s. I noticed an immediate stiffening of the rear suspension, but without any harshness to the ride. The rear handling is predictable and solid but without being harsh or jarring. I am using Monroe gas shocks, nothing high end or exotic, with stock rubber bushings in the lower arms, but I have adjustable upper arms (to faciliate a planned future overdrive addition requiring shortened driveshaft and different pinion angle) with urethane bushings. I had already upgraded the front suspension some time earlier, and the rear upgrades were just the icing on the cake. I would put this car up against many late model cars. I think it breaks the stereotype of a loose, floaty American car from the '60s/'70s.
I have a friend with a '67 Chevelle SS396 that had a similar experience, but he doesn't drive his car near as much as I have driven my GTO.
Hope this helps.
Jeff

Allan R

Jeff,
Your response in no way was a hijack, in fact I'm really glad to hear your experience. I've done almost exactly the same as you with the exception of the adjustable CA's. Good to hear that I can expect to have a nice surprise in the Spring. Thank you for posting your experience! (I did my front suspension/brakes and steering the year before)

cdrod

Hey Jeff:
Thanks for your response on the rear control arm bracing. It's nice to know the factory sway bar and braces don't adversely affect the ride quality.

What if any mods did you do when you rebuilt your front suspension? I've been reading about the poor geometry of these A-body cars. It seems the angle of the upper control arm and a short spindle height creates a positive camber gain when the suspension compresses - like in a hard corner (the opposite of what you want). I'm thinking about installing taller upper ball joints when I rebuild my front end. This will elevate the ball joint connection at the top of the spindle and flatten the angle of the upper control arm to reduce the positive camber gain in hard corners. I just don't know if this can be done with the stock upper control arms. Do you have any experience with this? Thanks!
Rodney

Texas442

Correct for 1972. A common mistake that most car lots do when they decide to clone and flip a 72 Cutlass is to replace the glovebox emblem with a 442.

Jeff's Classics

Yep...on the GTO I installed aftermarket upper control arms and tall ball joints, along with a big hollow swaybar. It did improve the handling and stability of the car, and again I used stock springs and Monroe shocks so there's no harshness to the ride. I bought my stuff from SC&C, but I think it's available from several different shops. IM me if you want more details. I'm probably not going to do this to my 442 since it's mostly stock, or at least stock appearing. I also installed Bear disk brakes in the front since my GTO was a 4-wheel drum car. What a difference! I've though about swapping the disks onto my 442 (it's drum too) and putting even bigger disks and 17" wheels on the GTO, but that would require new 15" Olds wheels for the 442...cost starts to add up when upgrading both cars, but I do like the safety of big disk brakes on the front.

cdrod

Did you used the Howe Racing ball joints? I don't want to change the appearance of my car so the need to retain the stock upper control arms. Is it possible to make improvements with just the tall ball joints, keeping the stock upper arms or do you really need the aftermarket upper arms?

Jeff's Classics

I did use the Howe Racing ball joints, with stock lower control arms but I have SPC upper control arms. I don't know how effective the ball joints would be with stock upper control arms because the SPCs and other upper control arms make geometry changes for improved caster. But now that you mention it I'd be willing to give it a try because I'd like my 442 to appear stock as well.
I would think that the tall ball joints alone would at least reduce the camber change through the sweep of the suspension.
Jeff

cdrod

Jeff:
I think the issue with running the stock upper arms is they are too long - the aftermarket arms are shorter and more flat. As you raise the upper pickup point at the ball joint, the stock upper arm will move inward requiring many shims to align it properly - maybe too many shims. I've been warned about steering shaft and header clearance issues, and I suppose the mounting bolts could be too short as well.
Couple more questions:
1. What length were your lower ball joints? I've heard that a 1/4" taller lower ball joint will correct the factory bumpsteer.
2. Did you install the SC&C Stage 2-plus arms? This is what Mark has recommended. He said the cross-shaft mounting end of these arms look alot like a stock arm. Would you mind snapping a pic of your set-up?
3. Are you running stock height springs or an aftermarket/lowering spring? If so, what spring are you using?
Thanks for all your info! I really love the CO website; everyone is so helpful and friendly (even when they have different opinions).

Jeff's Classics

Rodney,
I'll answer your questions in the same order:
1. I don't know the length of the ball joints, but they are the Howe tall ball joints sold by SC&C.
2. I did install the Stage 2-plus upper a-arms, see attached picture. Mark is a good salesman, but in my opinion they look nothing like a stock a-arm. Again, see picture. You also have to trim a small amount of metal away from the forward part of the cross-shafting mounting point on the frame to clear the a-arm. I'm using the stock lower control arms with rubber bushing and the Howe ball joints.
3. I am running the springs that came with my GTO. They were replaced some years ago by the previous owner so I don't know the exact specs, but they are supposed to be a stock style replacement. When I first assembled my car with the SC&C springs it looked horrible. The nose was very low and I could barely get a jack under it. I had a lot of issues with the ride height and wound up putting back the stock springs, and I'm very happy with the ride, handling, and looks.

My GTO now rides, handles, and brakes like a modern car.On my 442 I want to keep a stock look, so I probably won't change the a-arms. I am considering upsizing to 17" wheels and bigger front brakes on the GTO, and then swapping the current Baer system to my 442 since it is a front drum brake car. I think if I paint the calipers black they won't be noticeable through stock wheels.
Next time I'm in Houston I can take you for a ride in the GTO and you can see what you think.
Jeff

cdrod

Jeff:
I will definitely take you up on the ride offer! Are you somewhere in Texas? Do you travel to Houston often? I've got family in Austin and Dallas and travel to those cities a couple of times a year so maybe we could meet up in your neighborhood. In fact, I'm taking the kids to Fiesta Texas amusement park for spring break and picking up 2 SSII rally wheels from a guy in Austin in the same trip.

I think I will try installing the Howe ball joints and see how far I can go with the stock arms and offset shafts. That's the great thing about the Howe parts, you can easily change out just the studs for a longer/shorter length without removing the entire ball joint assembly. Thanks again for all your info (and the pic).

p.s. Do you have any pics of your cars on the CO website?

Jeff's Classics

PM Sent regarding location. Cool to fit in a parts pickup on vacation!


Let us know how that goes, I am interested in doing the same for my 442 eventually.

Pretty new to the forum so I haven't looked into posting pictures, other than on threads like this one. I'll check it out...
later
Jeff

gearheads78

Baroque gold is not that bad. Here is an example in the sunlight.

72cutlass247.jpg

I uses the whole SPC set up from Markus when I built my old 66' I used Eibach springs though. In fact he used my car in his book. I can't say
enough how happy I was about how it rode and handled.

66cutlasstires067.jpg

shop065.jpg

shop064.jpg

ggfortworth09-024L.jpg

Run to Rund

In 1968-71, the 4-4-2 was its own series, the 4400 in the VIN. Other years it was an option on F85 &/or Cutlass series. If you correctly install hubcaps or a radio, or power steering, is your car a clone or tribute? If you correctly install all the 4-4-2 option components, it your car a clone or tribute?