Help Identify!
January 25th, 2012, 05:34 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
I have a barn find and need help identifing it. I see alot of knowledge on this Forum and hope y'all can help. Because I am new I cannot post pictures. Sorry! however, I will post at a later time when I can. I bought this car without really knowing what it is for a father and son project. The car was stripped down for paint and interior taken out and that is how she sat for the last 10 years. The motor and trans are still in and original. It is a a/c car and has vent windows. wood grain dash and a hurst auto. Also red front fender liners.
Thanks for any help on this matter! I am towing it home tomorrow and will start the process of rebuilding. 442 or not i like this car!
If this shows up on someones Thread I am sorry!! I am trying to figure out how to do this.
VIN 344878m404174
Fisher Plate:
05E
ST 68-33687 LAN407544
TR 940 Z-Z
Thanks for any help on this matter! I am towing it home tomorrow and will start the process of rebuilding. 442 or not i like this car!
If this shows up on someones Thread I am sorry!! I am trying to figure out how to do this.
VIN 344878m404174
Fisher Plate:
05E
ST 68-33687 LAN407544
TR 940 Z-Z
Last edited by citcapp; January 26th, 2012 at 07:11 AM. Reason: Repeted posts
January 25th, 2012, 05:54 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
No vinyl, but has silver paint in door jams. I see now that the 344 VIN is a 442 from reading this forum. Thanks.
Jaybird, thanks and I really can't see where to post a new thread but I am still looking.
Jaybird, thanks and I really can't see where to post a new thread but I am still looking.
January 25th, 2012, 06:11 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Posts: 901
Hi Hotrodmax: Welcome to the Classis Oldsmobile Discussion Forum.
We all would love to see pics of your car and, many members here are very willing and able to help answer your questions about you ride!
It's great to have you aboard!
We all would love to see pics of your car and, many members here are very willing and able to help answer your questions about you ride!
It's great to have you aboard!
Last edited by Jaybird; January 25th, 2012 at 07:01 PM.
January 25th, 2012, 06:44 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
Welcome Max!
Looks like you are figuring out the forum navigation.
Just select the forum title you wish to post in, and look for that "new thread" button at the top left.
I moved your other related posts & replies to here so they are all in one spot.
Be sure to post in only one area that makes the most sense, not the same one in several sections.
And as always around here, post some pics of your car - we love pics....
BTW, I found that mine did not have to be "real" in order for me to fall in love. Price was right and was advertised as a clone and I accepted it!
Looks like you are figuring out the forum navigation.
Just select the forum title you wish to post in, and look for that "new thread" button at the top left.
I moved your other related posts & replies to here so they are all in one spot.
Be sure to post in only one area that makes the most sense, not the same one in several sections.
And as always around here, post some pics of your car - we love pics....
BTW, I found that mine did not have to be "real" in order for me to fall in love. Price was right and was advertised as a clone and I accepted it!
looks like a red 455 
January 25th, 2012, 08:23 PM
#7
Seasoned beater pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,468
Holy crap. Good find for sure.
Don't celebrate until the title reads your name though.
I've had that happen before. Some dumb sap of a husband puts his AND his wife's name on the title. Then when he/she or a son/daughter sells it 20 years after one or both of them dies, you have to jump through 100 hoops and pay for death certificates.
If it's a Hurst, it might be hot as well. Hence the flashy paint wipedown.
Don't celebrate until the title reads your name though.
I've had that happen before. Some dumb sap of a husband puts his AND his wife's name on the title. Then when he/she or a son/daughter sells it 20 years after one or both of them dies, you have to jump through 100 hoops and pay for death certificates.
If it's a Hurst, it might be hot as well. Hence the flashy paint wipedown.
January 25th, 2012, 09:39 PM
#8
Randy C.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 3,246
It shouldn't have a vinyl top. Here's how the whole thing breaks down:
VIN: 344878M404174: 3 = GM division = Oldsmobile, 44 = model series = 442, 87 = body type = holiday coupe, 8 = model year = 1968, M = assembly plant = Lansing MI, 404174 = assembly plant sequential number.
TRIM TAG BREAKDOWN:
05E = time build code = May (05), fifth week of that month (E), 1968.
ST 68: ST = style/model year = 1968
33687: 3 = GM division = Oldsmobile, 36 = model series = Cutlass V-8 (Lansing cars continued to use the Cutlass model series designation in the trim tag even though 442 gained its own model series in 1968 so this is consistent), 87 = body type = holiday coupe.
LAN = assembly plant = Lansing MI.
407544 BODY = assembly plant body number (has no relation to the VIN; strictly for internal plant use).
TR 940 = interior color and front seat type = black interior with strato bucket seats.
Z-Z PAINT = lower body color (Z) = peruvian silver, and upper body color (also Z) = peruvian silver.
Peruvian silver was unique to Hurst Olds. As has been mentioned before, this is an incredibly great find, but don't celebrate until your name is on the title and you've checked a few other things to make sure "the collar matches the cuffs" (i.e., it is truly a Hurst Olds)! Some of those things to check include a 455ci engine that's painted red (also check the VIN derivative stamped into a small blank pad on the block just under the driver side front cylinder head), red plastic fenderwells, a dual snorkel air cleaner with air scoops under the front bumper, a dual gate shifter with a Hurst console, a Hurst emblem on the glovebox, real wood veneer dash inserts, a woodgrain steering wheel, the rally pac gauges and tach in the dash, and power disc brakes.
And, as mentioned before, we really do want to see some pictures of this car once you figure out how to post them. It took me awhile to figure out how to navigate this site but, once I did, it all came pretty easy. We are itching to see this car!
Randy C.
VIN: 344878M404174: 3 = GM division = Oldsmobile, 44 = model series = 442, 87 = body type = holiday coupe, 8 = model year = 1968, M = assembly plant = Lansing MI, 404174 = assembly plant sequential number.
TRIM TAG BREAKDOWN:
05E = time build code = May (05), fifth week of that month (E), 1968.
ST 68: ST = style/model year = 1968
33687: 3 = GM division = Oldsmobile, 36 = model series = Cutlass V-8 (Lansing cars continued to use the Cutlass model series designation in the trim tag even though 442 gained its own model series in 1968 so this is consistent), 87 = body type = holiday coupe.
LAN = assembly plant = Lansing MI.
407544 BODY = assembly plant body number (has no relation to the VIN; strictly for internal plant use).
TR 940 = interior color and front seat type = black interior with strato bucket seats.
Z-Z PAINT = lower body color (Z) = peruvian silver, and upper body color (also Z) = peruvian silver.
Peruvian silver was unique to Hurst Olds. As has been mentioned before, this is an incredibly great find, but don't celebrate until your name is on the title and you've checked a few other things to make sure "the collar matches the cuffs" (i.e., it is truly a Hurst Olds)! Some of those things to check include a 455ci engine that's painted red (also check the VIN derivative stamped into a small blank pad on the block just under the driver side front cylinder head), red plastic fenderwells, a dual snorkel air cleaner with air scoops under the front bumper, a dual gate shifter with a Hurst console, a Hurst emblem on the glovebox, real wood veneer dash inserts, a woodgrain steering wheel, the rally pac gauges and tach in the dash, and power disc brakes.
And, as mentioned before, we really do want to see some pictures of this car once you figure out how to post them. It took me awhile to figure out how to navigate this site but, once I did, it all came pretty easy. We are itching to see this car!
Randy C.
January 26th, 2012, 06:38 AM
#9
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,296
to keep the corporate nannies happy).Hell of a find, Max. All indications are that you have one of the 515 1968 Hurst/Oldsmobiles. Hope all the title and ownership mess works out for you. But I wouldn't put much time or money into it until you have a clear title in your name. A 68 H/O is a money car and I'd hate to see you spend a wad restoring it and some yahoo come out of the woodwork with a title and ownership claim.
Join the Hurst/Olds Club of America http://hurstolds.com/. It's worth a year's membership to get them to run the VIN and find out when in the production sequence your car was built.
Last edited by rocketraider; January 26th, 2012 at 06:46 AM.
January 26th, 2012, 11:49 AM
#12
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 17,624
Welcome
Welcome aboard
Here's pics 101 for you
When you reply make sure you are in “Advanced” If it says post a “Quick reply” hit “Advanced”
Scroll down below the box you type in and hit “Manage Attachments” A new box will pop up.
Hit “Browse”
The hit “Upload” and wait a few secs for the pics to up load. Then close this box.
Next you can hit “Preview Post” and your pictures should be there.
There is a size limit on pics
Here's pics 101 for you
When you reply make sure you are in “Advanced” If it says post a “Quick reply” hit “Advanced”
Scroll down below the box you type in and hit “Manage Attachments” A new box will pop up.
Hit “Browse”
The hit “Upload” and wait a few secs for the pics to up load. Then close this box.
Next you can hit “Preview Post” and your pictures should be there.
There is a size limit on pics
January 26th, 2012, 07:53 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
I would really just like to know what it's worth. I hate to think I paid too much and may be embarrassed to say. I checked the numbers like one of the guy's told me to on the drivers side of the motor and it matches the vin. I would have to get it for you exactly when I look again I will write it down for you. I also have the title,I know that was an issue. The interior is out and will need a little work also. I have more pics and trying to post them also.
January 26th, 2012, 08:13 PM
#20
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Just making sure. A lot of people say "numbers matching" and have no idea which numbers or where they are.
Collector Car Market Review says:
HTML Code:
1968 OLDSMOBILE 442 HURST/OLDS 455-390hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Hardtop 6450 15475 27600 38025 52200
Add:
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 3%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -5%
Others here who follow auctions may have better information than that.
- Eric
January 27th, 2012, 04:50 AM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,193
January 27th, 2012, 04:53 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,193
Even more, the number of wheels matches the number of windows that roll down matches the number of spark plugs on each side of the engine.
My God, my car must be worth millions!
My God, my car must be worth millions!
Last edited by jaunty75; January 27th, 2012 at 05:04 AM.
January 27th, 2012, 07:37 AM
#24
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,346
Excellent.
Just making sure. A lot of people say "numbers matching" and have no idea which numbers or where they are.
Collector Car Market Review says:
... So, about $6,000 as it sits (not sure whether their "#5" is a "driving condition" or a "non-running" condition).
Others here who follow auctions may have better information than that.
- Eric
Just making sure. A lot of people say "numbers matching" and have no idea which numbers or where they are.
Collector Car Market Review says:
HTML Code:
1968 OLDSMOBILE 442 HURST/OLDS 455-390hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Hardtop 6450 15475 27600 38025 52200
Add:
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 3%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -5%
Others here who follow auctions may have better information than that.
- Eric
Reminds me of an old Bazooka comic strip, where one guy steps on a weight and fortune scale and reads the fortune: "It says I'm going to be rich and successful."
His friend says: "Yeah, and it got your weight wrong too..."
January 27th, 2012, 07:50 AM
#25
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
True enough, but it's the only guide I know of for "collector" cars that doesn't cost me money to use.
If anybody wants to post info from the OCPG, or from any recent auctions they're familiar with (as I mentioned), I'm sure the OP would welcome it.
- Eric
If anybody wants to post info from the OCPG, or from any recent auctions they're familiar with (as I mentioned), I'm sure the OP would welcome it.
- Eric
January 27th, 2012, 07:58 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,193
The latest issue of the OCPG arrived in my mailbox just yesterday. It's dated April 2012 (it comes out six times per year).
It lists the following as values for a '68 442 2-door hardtop.
#1 (better than showroom new and not driven): $45,000
#2 (showroom): $31,500
#3 ("car show" or a "20-footer"): $20,250
#4 (runs and drives but needs total restoration): $9,000
#5 (complete or nearly complete but doesn't run and in too good a shape to part out): $5,400
#6 (too far gone to be anything but a parts car): $1,800
It lists the following as values for a '68 442 2-door hardtop.
#1 (better than showroom new and not driven): $45,000
#2 (showroom): $31,500
#3 ("car show" or a "20-footer"): $20,250
#4 (runs and drives but needs total restoration): $9,000
#5 (complete or nearly complete but doesn't run and in too good a shape to part out): $5,400
#6 (too far gone to be anything but a parts car): $1,800
January 27th, 2012, 08:08 AM
#27
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Oh, by the way, the post just before this one at this moment states:
1969 Oldsmobile Hurst H/O Coupe "Factory Air"
VIN: 344878M392095
Miles: 96,120
Offered at $149,900
Color: Peruvian Silver over Black
Engine: 455 V8
Transmission: Automatic
So, Max, does this answer your question?
- Eric
January 27th, 2012, 09:00 AM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,193
I missed that about it being a Hurst/Olds. The OCPG has a different set of values for a '68 H/O 2-door hardtop:
#1: $71,000
#2: $49,700
#3: $31,950
#4: $14,200
#5: $8,520
#6: $2,840
All of these are exactly 57.7% higher than the 442 values listed earlier.
#1: $71,000
#2: $49,700
#3: $31,950
#4: $14,200
#5: $8,520
#6: $2,840
All of these are exactly 57.7% higher than the 442 values listed earlier.
January 27th, 2012, 02:10 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,193
An interesting question that will certainly garner lots of debate.
First of all, there are many who poo-poo the idea of old cars price guides at all, figuring that so few or any particular kind of old car are sold in any year that you can't possibly determine trends from them, and they also argue that how can any one source keep track of all the sales, private and public, auction, through the newspaper, through craigslist, etc. that take place?
There are valid arguments. But, personally, I think it's possible to keep some kind of track of this kind of information if you're a large-enough organization with the necessary resources to follow as much of the buying and selling that goes on and are as thorough and as systematic as possible.
NADA has three condition levels, which they call "low retail," "average retail," and "high retail." These condition levels correspond roughly to a good driver needing some restoration, a nearly fully restored car, and a fully restored car, respectively. Comparing these to the Old Cars Price Guide categories, I would say they correspond to roughly #4 (runs and drives but needs full restoration), #3 ("20-footer") and #2 ("showroom") conditions.
Actually, it's probably fairer to say that NADA's low retail is equivalent about a 3.5 on the OCPG scale as they say that it refers to a car that is "fully functional and needing only minor reconditioning but could be driven as is." I wouldn't call that a car I'd take to a car show and expect to win trophies, but I wouldn't call it "needing complete restoration," either.
But the NADA's "high retail" prices always seems way out of line on the high side compared to the OCPG and other guides I've seen.
NADA's "low retail" for a '68 H/O 2-door is $17,475. The OCPG value for a #4 condition '68 H/O is $14,200. These aren't that terribly far apart.
NADA's "average retail" is $30,450. The OCPG value for #3 condition is $31,950. Again, pretty good agreement.
NADA's "high retail" is $58,200 whereas the OCPG is $49,700 in #2 condition. That's a nearly $10,000 difference.
NADA's high retail values are always much above the other guides for what are apparently similar-condition cars. I don't know. That's why this is all so much fun.
First of all, there are many who poo-poo the idea of old cars price guides at all, figuring that so few or any particular kind of old car are sold in any year that you can't possibly determine trends from them, and they also argue that how can any one source keep track of all the sales, private and public, auction, through the newspaper, through craigslist, etc. that take place?
There are valid arguments. But, personally, I think it's possible to keep some kind of track of this kind of information if you're a large-enough organization with the necessary resources to follow as much of the buying and selling that goes on and are as thorough and as systematic as possible.
NADA has three condition levels, which they call "low retail," "average retail," and "high retail." These condition levels correspond roughly to a good driver needing some restoration, a nearly fully restored car, and a fully restored car, respectively. Comparing these to the Old Cars Price Guide categories, I would say they correspond to roughly #4 (runs and drives but needs full restoration), #3 ("20-footer") and #2 ("showroom") conditions.
Actually, it's probably fairer to say that NADA's low retail is equivalent about a 3.5 on the OCPG scale as they say that it refers to a car that is "fully functional and needing only minor reconditioning but could be driven as is." I wouldn't call that a car I'd take to a car show and expect to win trophies, but I wouldn't call it "needing complete restoration," either.
But the NADA's "high retail" prices always seems way out of line on the high side compared to the OCPG and other guides I've seen.
NADA's "low retail" for a '68 H/O 2-door is $17,475. The OCPG value for a #4 condition '68 H/O is $14,200. These aren't that terribly far apart.
NADA's "average retail" is $30,450. The OCPG value for #3 condition is $31,950. Again, pretty good agreement.
NADA's "high retail" is $58,200 whereas the OCPG is $49,700 in #2 condition. That's a nearly $10,000 difference.
NADA's high retail values are always much above the other guides for what are apparently similar-condition cars. I don't know. That's why this is all so much fun.
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