Troser

I have a chance to buy a '69 442 that the guy claims is original... it is a Holiday Coupe that has a removable hardtop section from the front of the rear sail panel, to the windshield header. He swears it's original, and that a limited number were made (by Hurst?). Factory black with red stripes, rear W-30 type spoiler. Dash with guage package.

Real car, or made car? ~Tim trose693@cs.com

2blu442

What your describing sounds like the roof panel used on the Porche 914 cars. I've never heard of anything like this from that vintage, so I'd be skeptical it's factory. The first year of the "T" top that I've seen was on a 1975 Hurts Olds, then the 1977 Pace Car had a removable panel over the seats on the one used at Indy, kind of like you described, but the ones sold didn't have that option. How does this panel attach? Does it have rubber gaskets to prevent rain leaks? Are there "clamps" like the convertible tops have to lock the roof in place? Yeah, I'd be real carful about paying a lot for this car, as you might have to replace the roof to make it original again. Can you get any photos to share with us? John

Troser

John,

This guy swears that a handful of cars were made/converted by the factory... oddly, it does look like a factory job, but the car also has an antenna frenched into the passenger rear quarter which is definately not original... I figured anyone who could french an antenna could potentially chop the top in this fashion.

The windshield header is a like convertible frame windshield header, and the top does clamp to the header just like a convertible would. The cut is made right at the b-piller where the end of the small rear quarter windows curve upwards... just like a Corvette coupe with T-tops looks, or a mid-year Viper. There are rubber seals under the top, like on T-tops. The entire roof section removes, leaving the b-piller like a "roll bar", just like on a C-3 Corvette if the entire top removed, without the t-top bar.

It actually looks extremely cool, and the car has a factory-style, if not original rear wing. It's definately a 442; can you determine any info from the VIN? I can post it if you can; maybe engine option, etc? ~Thanks, Tim

2blu442

Hi Tim
Yes, the vin should start with 34477 or 34487 if it's a real 442. Then the engine should be a 400 cubic inch painted bronze. There should be a number stamped into the block that includes part of the vin number. Look for a small pad cast into the block on the drivers side, down underneath the head to the left of the spark plug closest to the radiator. If the alternator is on the drivers side of the engine you may have to get a mirror and a flashlight as the alternator bracket is going to make it hard to see. The last 8 digits should match the vin number on the dash. The transmission will also have a vin number stamped into it. Is it an automatic or four speed? I still lean toward this being a custom job, but if its done well you might still enjoy buying it to drive. But as an investment I suspect this kind of custom work would detract from the collectors value. What part of the country are you in? You might be able to find someone from a local 442 club who could help verify details for you. John

Troser

OK, I bought the car... the guy was asking what I thought was quite a bit for it, and I made an offer which he accepted after a few days.

The top is definately custom, and well-done. The car was a Holiday Coupe but has had the windshield, pillars, and header changed to convertible pieces. The hardtop was cut right at the point were the rear quarter windows begine to turn upwards, and across to leave a "Targa bar" like a '69 Corvette coupe would have if it didn't have the T-bar in the middle. The front section of the cut hardtop has the convertible header welded in, along with the side convertible frame sections that have the latches. Very clean, very custom work; in front, although it's a hardtop, it looks and acts like a convertible.

In the back, there are two 3/8" x 1" mild steel tabs on the hardtop that fit into matching receivers under the "rollbar" roof. The rollbar roof section has been properly recessed to accomodate the top, and weatherstrip, like a T-top would have. All in all, it's a very professional job and looks cool. For the money I paid, I couldn't go wrong.

The car was a medium/light green metalic originally, and is now black with red W-stripes and gold border pinstriping. It has the factory rear wing. The interior is all there, no cracks at all in tha dash, and it has both the factory tachometer, as well as the under-dash chrome pod Oldsmobile power/vacuum guage... pretty funky. All the 442 badging and pieces seem to be in place, both inside and out. It is missing the front bumper.

The engine may or may not be original; I couldn't see any numbers because the fuel pump was right in the way? What should I find for head casting numbers, and where? Manifold numbers?

It has the 12-bolt rear end under it still, which was a huge plus... engine and trans are "supposed" to be original, but we'll see. VIN is 344879M25252 if anyone can make more out of that than I could.

Anyhow, this is my first Oldsmobile, and it seems to be a cool one. I'm finishing out my shop to perform full restorations, and have some done cars, along with some projects... this falls into the latter catagory, but would obviously be an attractive car, done. ~Tim

Oldsguy

Tim, sounds like an interesting car and we would love to see pictures of it. Sounds like a good custom job with a lot of thought put into it by your descriptions. How does it drive?

And, welcome to our site.

Troser

Ok, in trying to research the car further, I find that the engine is a 350... casting 394448 2, the heads are number 5, the intake is a four-barrel cast-iron unit with the casting number of 398663, and the filler tube has the number 8 128121 on it. The inner fenders are black plastic, and it has a rear sway bar under a 12-bolt rear end... it also has the factory rear wing on it. Could it be a W-31? All things so far seem to indicate it may be.... the air cleaner and front bumper are long gone... it also has a big four-row radiator, and the harmonic balancer is as big as the big lower pully, if not bigger.

Anyone? ~Tim