70 442 W-30 Replica
January 21st, 2014 | 09:27 PM
#2
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 182
From: El Mirage AZ
Nice Ride . Welcome .
Congratulations on taking the plunge . You have a fine looking ride .
As I observe from your single picture , I would love to hear the back story on how you got to the point of selecting this particular car ...
I'm assuming you just purchased @ the Kissimmee Auction ? I also believe that it takes some serious determination and faith to buy in that atmosphere . What I would be interested in hearing would be things like ,
what attracted in quality ? features + benefits ? Input from owner / builder ?
How can you tell about the ride and drive quality without being able to do it ? ETC .
Anyway , enjoy the ride , and give is a shout on how great it is enjoying your Cutlass 442 ! The car looks good !JT
As I observe from your single picture , I would love to hear the back story on how you got to the point of selecting this particular car ...
I'm assuming you just purchased @ the Kissimmee Auction ? I also believe that it takes some serious determination and faith to buy in that atmosphere . What I would be interested in hearing would be things like ,
what attracted in quality ? features + benefits ? Input from owner / builder ?
How can you tell about the ride and drive quality without being able to do it ? ETC .
Anyway , enjoy the ride , and give is a shout on how great it is enjoying your Cutlass 442 ! The car looks good !JT
January 22nd, 2014 | 09:58 AM
#6
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,578
From: Modesto CA
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...=FL0114-172181
It says W30 clone, is it a Cutlass or a 442? I like the color combo. Does it match the cowl codes? Original 4-speed car or was it converted? Either way it's a nice car. Have fun with it.
It says W30 clone, is it a Cutlass or a 442? I like the color combo. Does it match the cowl codes? Original 4-speed car or was it converted? Either way it's a nice car. Have fun with it.
January 22nd, 2014 | 02:42 PM
#8
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 878
From: Austin, TX
Nice looking car and hope you enjoy it. Please do share your experience with the buying process since I'm thinking about going to their Houston auction this spring (just to watch and learn). While top cars often bring crazy money, seems like clones and drivers often slip by at reasonable prices. This site can provide a ton of info, just search or ask away.
January 22nd, 2014 | 06:21 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 205
From: Chico, Texas
Auction Process
Thanks for the comments, I was wondering about the reaction to a replica car. As a former owner of a "real" w-30 I had to think long and hard about a replica.
First the car. Rebuilt from (according to the VIN) a 1970 F-85 sport coupe. It was an automatic but converted to a 4 speed with a M-22. The engine is a 1968 455. He purchased an aluminum intake for it, plastic fender wells, new hood, W-27 differential cover, new interior, new glass in the back, badging, minor body work and paint. After I pid for the car, they gave me an envelope from the owner with all the receipts for everything in the restore. He made $2,500 off the build. It's in good condition overall, the interior is very nice being new but It looks just like the original. He even added the real wing as the trunk lid will stay open by itself. (Not sure I like the wing as my first car didn't have one).
The Auction. My first trip to an auction as a buyer. I've been to BJ a few times as general admission and looked but never thought I would buy a car at one. First, because the ones you see on TV or read about are very expensive and second because I always thought I would find one in the local paper classifieds. As the years went by I realized my desired 1970 442 W-30, in metallic burgundy, with the W-25 hood, the real W-27 housing and cover and the best sounding engine ever, just like the one I traded a 1960 El Camino for in 1974, was not going to be found easily. I started watching these forums and reading magazines for muscle cars and going to car shows to find one. No luck that way either. I read about the BJ auction in Scottsdale this year and looked at the cars for sale. Like many of you I thought everything was overpriced and way too high simply because it was sold at that auction. I next looked at Mecum and found the Kissimmee auction the same week as BJ only it was 30 minutes from my corporate headquarters. As luck would have it, I had a business trip that week and decided to look at the cars available. Well, with 3,000 cars I soon stopped looking at the pictures and just read the text files for Oldsmobiles. Very quickly I realized the expensive cars were at the end of the auction and I was going to be there the first two days. As luck would have it the replica was up for sale on Saturday, the last day I was going to be there.
Spent Friday at the auction learning the system. I pre-registered (which I recommend) for $100 bidders fee and they mailed me two tickets for admission. Once I arrived, they directed me to the bidders booth where I was given a bidders tag with my name and one for my guest (wife). This allowed us entry for every day of the auction, allowed us on the bidders floor and special seating on the bidders floor. Listened to the auctioneers for several hours until I could understand them all (there is 4 or 5 and they rotate). Timing is critical; cars get 3 minutes on stage and most of the bidding happens in those 3 minutes. After the time is up, the car moves to the "post" stage where the bidding continues and the next car is moved to the stage. The bids either are high enough to release the reserve, don't meet the reserve or sell so fast and high no one knows the reserve. An interesting point is the seller must stand at the stage while the bidding is going on, they are the only ones that can lift the reserve. You can walk up to the car at the pre-stage or on-deck spot. The owner is there and they start the car, open the hood, etc. letting you look for a few minutes before it moves on stage. Once there, you can still go up to the car and look.
The rest of the day we spent looking at the cars in the tents. There are signs up showing where the cars are parked(organized by day they will sell). You can look at the cars, get in the car, under, etc. but to start it or lift the hood, you have to have the owner or one of the Mecum employees there to do that. Not difficult, the employees are everywhere. This is where I spent an hour looking the car over. The description on the internet was accurate and the seller wasn't trying to hide anything about the car being a replica.
I was very disappointed that the 2 real W-30's for sale the following Friday (in two days) were not on the lot yet since they weren't selling for a week. I kept checking up until I went to the airport for the cars to get a look at them. By this time I had convinced myself to NOT buy the replica and save the money for a phone bid on the real w-30's.
Purchase Day: the next day we went straight to the auction floor, secured good seats where I round study the cars. The replica was number K49 meaning it would be the 49th car up that day and at 3 minutes per car, I knew Appt when I needed to be ready. During the wait, I went back and forth trying to make the wife understand why I wasn't going to bid on the replica. She countered by making the point I could enjoy the replica while waiting and saving for the real one. My ears perked up as I realized she just agreed to buy another car in the future.
In my head I set a limit of $18,000 for the replica and when the car came up on deck I was ready to bid. They start high and bring it down until someone bids. The starting point was 30,000 then 20 then 15. I knew that was my starting point and started to raise my hand and bid. When I was half way up, the. I'd was accepted on the other side of the room, went to $18,000 before I could even process it so I decided my limit was reached and I was out. The next bid was 20 and while I'm looking at the car all bright and shiny under the lights I raised my hand for 21. My wife stated at me like I was crazy but I was in and wanted that car right now. The next words were magic; the reserve is lifted. Two of were bidding at that time and he went to 22. The auctioneer helper is standing right in front of me saying 23?, 23?. The TV camera is in your face and I hear the auctioneer say going once...going twice...and I raised my hand for the last time. The gavel came down and the helper shook my hand and said congrats on a great looking car. Within 30 seconds, another young lady was there and had me sign for the purchase, gave me the Mecum buyers hat and people around me were congratulating me and slapping me on the back. You have one hour to pay for the car so we headed out to the office to pay. When I walked in I realized through all of that I was so nervous I never even looked at the seller and had no idea what he looked like so I never was able to talk to him.
You have to arrange for shipping before you pay so you don't have to pay taxes and Conveniently, they have a booth outside the bidders floor where you Can arrange shipping. Finished paying, they gave me the sellers name and address plus my bag of receipts. We were off to the airport and flying home within the hour.
Sorry it was so long but I wanted you to understand the system. I will do this again because many of the cars were sold very cheaply. Two Rolls Royce's in great condition for under $7,000 each. Many vettes under $6,000 and many 2nd tier collectibles very reasonable. Stay away from the last days and you can find bargains.
First the car. Rebuilt from (according to the VIN) a 1970 F-85 sport coupe. It was an automatic but converted to a 4 speed with a M-22. The engine is a 1968 455. He purchased an aluminum intake for it, plastic fender wells, new hood, W-27 differential cover, new interior, new glass in the back, badging, minor body work and paint. After I pid for the car, they gave me an envelope from the owner with all the receipts for everything in the restore. He made $2,500 off the build. It's in good condition overall, the interior is very nice being new but It looks just like the original. He even added the real wing as the trunk lid will stay open by itself. (Not sure I like the wing as my first car didn't have one).
The Auction. My first trip to an auction as a buyer. I've been to BJ a few times as general admission and looked but never thought I would buy a car at one. First, because the ones you see on TV or read about are very expensive and second because I always thought I would find one in the local paper classifieds. As the years went by I realized my desired 1970 442 W-30, in metallic burgundy, with the W-25 hood, the real W-27 housing and cover and the best sounding engine ever, just like the one I traded a 1960 El Camino for in 1974, was not going to be found easily. I started watching these forums and reading magazines for muscle cars and going to car shows to find one. No luck that way either. I read about the BJ auction in Scottsdale this year and looked at the cars for sale. Like many of you I thought everything was overpriced and way too high simply because it was sold at that auction. I next looked at Mecum and found the Kissimmee auction the same week as BJ only it was 30 minutes from my corporate headquarters. As luck would have it, I had a business trip that week and decided to look at the cars available. Well, with 3,000 cars I soon stopped looking at the pictures and just read the text files for Oldsmobiles. Very quickly I realized the expensive cars were at the end of the auction and I was going to be there the first two days. As luck would have it the replica was up for sale on Saturday, the last day I was going to be there.
Spent Friday at the auction learning the system. I pre-registered (which I recommend) for $100 bidders fee and they mailed me two tickets for admission. Once I arrived, they directed me to the bidders booth where I was given a bidders tag with my name and one for my guest (wife). This allowed us entry for every day of the auction, allowed us on the bidders floor and special seating on the bidders floor. Listened to the auctioneers for several hours until I could understand them all (there is 4 or 5 and they rotate). Timing is critical; cars get 3 minutes on stage and most of the bidding happens in those 3 minutes. After the time is up, the car moves to the "post" stage where the bidding continues and the next car is moved to the stage. The bids either are high enough to release the reserve, don't meet the reserve or sell so fast and high no one knows the reserve. An interesting point is the seller must stand at the stage while the bidding is going on, they are the only ones that can lift the reserve. You can walk up to the car at the pre-stage or on-deck spot. The owner is there and they start the car, open the hood, etc. letting you look for a few minutes before it moves on stage. Once there, you can still go up to the car and look.
The rest of the day we spent looking at the cars in the tents. There are signs up showing where the cars are parked(organized by day they will sell). You can look at the cars, get in the car, under, etc. but to start it or lift the hood, you have to have the owner or one of the Mecum employees there to do that. Not difficult, the employees are everywhere. This is where I spent an hour looking the car over. The description on the internet was accurate and the seller wasn't trying to hide anything about the car being a replica.
I was very disappointed that the 2 real W-30's for sale the following Friday (in two days) were not on the lot yet since they weren't selling for a week. I kept checking up until I went to the airport for the cars to get a look at them. By this time I had convinced myself to NOT buy the replica and save the money for a phone bid on the real w-30's.
Purchase Day: the next day we went straight to the auction floor, secured good seats where I round study the cars. The replica was number K49 meaning it would be the 49th car up that day and at 3 minutes per car, I knew Appt when I needed to be ready. During the wait, I went back and forth trying to make the wife understand why I wasn't going to bid on the replica. She countered by making the point I could enjoy the replica while waiting and saving for the real one. My ears perked up as I realized she just agreed to buy another car in the future.
In my head I set a limit of $18,000 for the replica and when the car came up on deck I was ready to bid. They start high and bring it down until someone bids. The starting point was 30,000 then 20 then 15. I knew that was my starting point and started to raise my hand and bid. When I was half way up, the. I'd was accepted on the other side of the room, went to $18,000 before I could even process it so I decided my limit was reached and I was out. The next bid was 20 and while I'm looking at the car all bright and shiny under the lights I raised my hand for 21. My wife stated at me like I was crazy but I was in and wanted that car right now. The next words were magic; the reserve is lifted. Two of were bidding at that time and he went to 22. The auctioneer helper is standing right in front of me saying 23?, 23?. The TV camera is in your face and I hear the auctioneer say going once...going twice...and I raised my hand for the last time. The gavel came down and the helper shook my hand and said congrats on a great looking car. Within 30 seconds, another young lady was there and had me sign for the purchase, gave me the Mecum buyers hat and people around me were congratulating me and slapping me on the back. You have one hour to pay for the car so we headed out to the office to pay. When I walked in I realized through all of that I was so nervous I never even looked at the seller and had no idea what he looked like so I never was able to talk to him.
You have to arrange for shipping before you pay so you don't have to pay taxes and Conveniently, they have a booth outside the bidders floor where you Can arrange shipping. Finished paying, they gave me the sellers name and address plus my bag of receipts. We were off to the airport and flying home within the hour.
Sorry it was so long but I wanted you to understand the system. I will do this again because many of the cars were sold very cheaply. Two Rolls Royce's in great condition for under $7,000 each. Many vettes under $6,000 and many 2nd tier collectibles very reasonable. Stay away from the last days and you can find bargains.
January 22nd, 2014 | 08:08 PM
#11
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 190
From: Richmond, TX
Thanks for the background story. Very interesting...
My wife and I sat through a couple hours of the Houston Mecum last fall just for the experience (no purchasing on the horizon for now, too many kids still on the payroll). Someday I'll be in the market for another project...
My wife and I sat through a couple hours of the Houston Mecum last fall just for the experience (no purchasing on the horizon for now, too many kids still on the payroll). Someday I'll be in the market for another project...
January 23rd, 2014 | 08:40 AM
#12
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,855
From: Carrolllton Texas
Thanks so much for the detailed report on the auction process, and congratulations on your purchase. I think you did very well, and your enthusiasm shows.
I'm sure you already know this, but with one weekend's work you can revise a few things on that car that would make a huge difference in terms of making it look more authentic:
1) Paint the grilles and headlamp surrounds with a dull aluminum type paint
2) Remove the underhood insulation
3) Put a black shifter ball the correct diameter on it.
4) Order from one of the Olds suppliers the correct looking shifter boot
5) Install a negative battery cable a little closer to the correct length
6) Get some black spark plug wires
7) Clean & detail the master cylinder and wiper motor
Again congrats!!!
I'm sure you already know this, but with one weekend's work you can revise a few things on that car that would make a huge difference in terms of making it look more authentic:
1) Paint the grilles and headlamp surrounds with a dull aluminum type paint
2) Remove the underhood insulation
3) Put a black shifter ball the correct diameter on it.
4) Order from one of the Olds suppliers the correct looking shifter boot
5) Install a negative battery cable a little closer to the correct length
6) Get some black spark plug wires
7) Clean & detail the master cylinder and wiper motor
Again congrats!!!
January 23rd, 2014 | 06:52 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 205
From: Chico, Texas
Thanks so much for the detailed report on the auction process, and congratulations on your purchase. I think you did very well, and your enthusiasm shows.
I'm sure you already know this, but with one weekend's work you can revise a few things on that car that would make a huge difference in terms of making it look more authentic:
1) Paint the grilles and headlamp surrounds with a dull aluminum type paint
2) Remove the underhood insulation
3) Put a black shifter ball the correct diameter on it.
4) Order from one of the Olds suppliers the correct looking shifter boot
5) Install a negative battery cable a little closer to the correct length
6) Get some black spark plug wires
7) Clean & detail the master cylinder and wiper motor
Again congrats!!!
I'm sure you already know this, but with one weekend's work you can revise a few things on that car that would make a huge difference in terms of making it look more authentic:
1) Paint the grilles and headlamp surrounds with a dull aluminum type paint
2) Remove the underhood insulation
3) Put a black shifter ball the correct diameter on it.
4) Order from one of the Olds suppliers the correct looking shifter boot
5) Install a negative battery cable a little closer to the correct length
6) Get some black spark plug wires
7) Clean & detail the master cylinder and wiper motor
Again congrats!!!
February 23rd, 2014 | 11:51 PM
#17
Still on the planet...
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 214
From: Texas Hill Country
I gave up a concerted search and quite by accident became aware of a private seller last Tuesday nite. Made the deal, made the drive, and picked the car up on Friday. Like yours, mine is a '70 Holiday Coupe W-30 Replica, or to some folks, a wannabe. Makes no difference to me as I bought it to drive and enjoy... not sit in climate controlled storage to look at
but that's what makes the world go 'round.Happy motoring and maybe we'll meet in person at one of the Texas events.
Last edited by Lonestar; February 24th, 2014 at 05:52 PM.
February 26th, 2014 | 10:43 PM
#24
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,855
From: Carrolllton Texas
February 27th, 2014 | 04:05 PM
#25
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 111
From: Minneapolis, MN
Nice looking ride. I noticed you sold your W-30 for a thousand back in '81 (ouch). It's too bad we couldn't go back and reverse a few of those decisions. I used to drive musclecars back then as beaters. Many of them would be worth a lot today whole or parts. After I was done beating the crap out of them I would usually sell them for around a hundred bucks. Today a guy could get that for any one of the parts off of them. Enjoy your Olds.
Cheers, Mike
Cheers, Mike
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lanning Auto Body
Small Blocks
8
July 19th, 2010 06:52 AM
Lanning Auto Body
Eighty-Eight
15
May 9th, 2008 09:15 PM
